2023-2024 NCAAF Official Thread

[Moranis]

So is it a coincidence that Michigan started illegally spying on teams in 2021 and went from never beating OSU woth Harbaugh to not losing to them since?

Considering the allegations center around last year and this year, and involve an employee who was hired in 2022, I think we can say yes, it’s a coincidence.

Also, if you watched the 2021 game, you’d know there was nothing to do with signs being stolen.  Ohio couldn’t block Hutchison, even with a constant double team (15 QB pressures by him alone), and they couldn’t stop the Michigan ground game even when they knew it was coming (Michigan only passed four times in the second half).  Further, OSU changed up their signs last year before playing Michigan:

Ohio State staff members knew of the issue ahead of their game against the Wolverines last season. The staff “changed things up” ahead of the game to combat the signaling issue, one support member told Yahoo.

So yeah, coincidence.

ESPN says they've been doing it since at least 2021

A source told ESPN that the Wolverines have used an "elaborate" scouting system to steal signals from future opponents since at least 2021.

or this from SI

The Athletic cited a source saying Michigan allegedly had a “vast network” of people working to steal signs. ESPN declared the operation “extensive.” Sources tell SI that there were multiple people attending games for the purpose of impermissible scouting. (Head coach Jim Harbaugh has denied any knowledge of impermissible scouting.)

As a Buckeye fan I was being tongue in cheek.  Michigan has simply had better line play the last 2 years and I'd honestly expect the major schools to consistently change their signs, but it is pretty interesting that Michigan put all of this together and became really really good.

[greg683x]

So is it a coincidence that Michigan started illegally spying on teams in 2021 and went from never beating OSU woth Harbaugh to not losing to them since?

So I might come across as "evil" here, but are we to believe other teams aren't doing this either? Like all this time, Georgia hasn't, or Alabama, etc.? Kind of like how the Astros in baseball had their scandal, it turns out many other teams like the Sox, Yankees, Cardinals, etc. were doing stuff too but it's just these teams all got caught. Obviously you also have Spygate with the Patriots, etc.

Kinda feels like the NCAA is just targeting Michigan for some reason now, especially Harbaugh. The NCAA has had a thing for him for a while now, he definitely annoys them lol

I agree, though I believe that the Astros incident was so egregious it deserved a strict punishment.

If you can’t conceal your grip on the ball when pitching and the opposing team can take advantage of it, then that’s your problem.  If your team has signals that can be broken or interpreted by the other team then you need to do better.

Where I think it crosses the line into cheating is when technology is needed to aid in taking advantage.  So the astros using a monitor from a camera in centerfield to steal catcher signs is cheating.  Using a smart watch to relays stolen signs, video taping practices, etc are all out of bounds if you ask me

Stealing signs during games isn't against the rules.  The alleged rules violations being mentioned are sending people to do in-person scouting of future opponents and using technology to record signals.

It’s not as cut and dry as stealing signs during the game isn’t against the rules, otherwise the Astros wouldn’t have been punished.  There’s a line you cross from taking advantage of another teams sloppiness to deceitfully trying to gain an advantage.  Obviously this falls under that category.  The only point I was trying to make is that this isn’t as simple as ‘everyone tries to steal signs’ like someone had pointed out. Yeah every team looks for a weakness to exploit, but theres a line that can’t be crossed. 

[SparzWizard]

So is it a coincidence that Michigan started illegally spying on teams in 2021 and went from never beating OSU woth Harbaugh to not losing to them since?

So I might come across as "evil" here, but are we to believe other teams aren't doing this either? Like all this time, Georgia hasn't, or Alabama, etc.? Kind of like how the Astros in baseball had their scandal, it turns out many other teams like the Sox, Yankees, Cardinals, etc. were doing stuff too but it's just these teams all got caught. Obviously you also have Spygate with the Patriots, etc.

Kinda feels like the NCAA is just targeting Michigan for some reason now, especially Harbaugh. The NCAA has had a thing for him for a while now, he definitely annoys them lol

Now that I'm anti-Belichick, he was the one behind Spygate.

Jkjk 

[tazzmaniac]

So is it a coincidence that Michigan started illegally spying on teams in 2021 and went from never beating OSU woth Harbaugh to not losing to them since?

So I might come across as "evil" here, but are we to believe other teams aren't doing this either? Like all this time, Georgia hasn't, or Alabama, etc.? Kind of like how the Astros in baseball had their scandal, it turns out many other teams like the Sox, Yankees, Cardinals, etc. were doing stuff too but it's just these teams all got caught. Obviously you also have Spygate with the Patriots, etc.

Kinda feels like the NCAA is just targeting Michigan for some reason now, especially Harbaugh. The NCAA has had a thing for him for a while now, he definitely annoys them lol

I agree, though I believe that the Astros incident was so egregious it deserved a strict punishment.

If you can’t conceal your grip on the ball when pitching and the opposing team can take advantage of it, then that’s your problem.  If your team has signals that can be broken or interpreted by the other team then you need to do better.

Where I think it crosses the line into cheating is when technology is needed to aid in taking advantage.  So the astros using a monitor from a camera in centerfield to steal catcher signs is cheating.  Using a smart watch to relays stolen signs, video taping practices, etc are all out of bounds if you ask me

Stealing signs during games isn't against the rules.  The alleged rules violations being mentioned are sending people to do in-person scouting of future opponents and using technology to record signals.

It’s not as cut and dry as stealing signs during the game isn’t against the rules, otherwise the Astros wouldn’t have been punished.  There’s a line you cross from taking advantage of another teams sloppiness to deceitfully trying to gain an advantage.  Obviously this falls under that category.  The only point I was trying to make is that this isn’t as simple as ‘everyone tries to steal signs’ like someone had pointed out. Yeah every team looks for a weakness to exploit, but theres a line that can’t be crossed.

I'm talking about college football rules.  Stealing signs during the game as long as it is not done using technology is not against the rules. 

[Phantom255x]

Penn State - Ohio State has been really good, though the QB play is also awful

Oklahoma may be in real trouble. Losing 20-17 to UCF currently in the 3rd and UCF is driving

[Moranis]

Buckeyes have a great defense and the best player in the sport. Not sure that will be enough against Michigan, but it should get them to the game unbeaten after they got by PSU today and ND earlier in the year.

[Phantom255x]

Wow! UNC goes down. That's a shocker, I thought the UNC - Florida State ACC Championship Game would lowkey be for who gets a playoff spot, but now UNC has one loss. It's Florida State or no ACC team

[Moranis]

Wow! UNC goes down. That's a shocker, I thought the UNC - Florida State ACC Championship Game would lowkey be for who gets a playoff spot, but now UNC has one loss. It's Florida State or no ACC team

Don't count the Dukies out yet.

[Phantom255x]

Wow! UNC goes down. That's a shocker, I thought the UNC - Florida State ACC Championship Game would lowkey be for who gets a playoff spot, but now UNC has one loss. It's Florida State or no ACC team

Don't count the Dukies out yet.

Duke could, I just don't know if being ranked #16 right now hurts them. They'd have to leapfrog a ton of other great teams even if they beat Florida State tonight (I'm guessing a win would put them around 8 or 9). Their only remaining ranked opponents are UNC who will likely drop out of the Top-20, and Louisville who is 21.

I thought UNC had a legit chance because of Maye AND the fact that they were ranked #10 already

[Celtics2021]

The Huskies are down 7-3 at home to 1-5 Arizona State at halftime.  Penix has been picked off twice — Washington definitely has a hangover after the big win against Oregon last week.

[Phantom255x]

Caleb Williams really had the audacity to "demand part-ownership" on whoever team he was drafted into. I'm souring on him big time, against better teams and defenses he looks really bad. Can't handle pressure. I'm starting to think Maye might be the first QB off the boards next spring, not Caleb.

And also, the USC players not interviewing postgame and Lincoln Riley being the only one made available. Yeah that operation is about to fold.

[Moranis]

So the Michigan staffer had purchased a ticket on each side of the field for OSU and PSU. Also had like 30 other tickets to games. Pretty widespread cheating.

[celticsclay]

So the Michigan staffer had purchased a ticket on each side of the field for OSU and PSU. Also had like 30 other tickets to games. Pretty widespread cheating.

Buying tickets to games is cheating? I feel like it would be super weird if every team in country doesn’t send scouts to the games. Is there something more you are not sharing here?

[tazzmaniac]

So the Michigan staffer had purchased a ticket on each side of the field for OSU and PSU. Also had like 30 other tickets to games. Pretty widespread cheating.

Buying tickets to games is cheating? I feel like it would be super weird if every team in country doesn’t send scouts to the games. Is there something more you are not sharing here?

Sending people to scout future opponents has been against the NCAA rules since 1994. 

[celticsclay]

So the Michigan staffer had purchased a ticket on each side of the field for OSU and PSU. Also had like 30 other tickets to games. Pretty widespread cheating.

Buying tickets to games is cheating? I feel like it would be super weird if every team in country doesn’t send scouts to the games. Is there something more you are not sharing here?

Sending people to scout future opponents has been against the NCAA rules since 1994.

I saw that in an espn article and it seems like a pretty silly rule. However, the meat of these allegations appears to be teams filming the bench of the sideline for the entire game, which seems like an actual real problem.