Author Topic: Patriots 2023 Season  (Read 306613 times)

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Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #915 on: November 14, 2023, 05:48:41 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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Thank god the Dolphins fired Brian Flores. He was well on his way to breaking Tua as well. (Dolphins fan here).

What is it with Bellichick and his disciples?

Tara Sullivan of the Globe lays a sizable portion of the blame on Bill and his decisions.

Quote
Replacing McDaniels with the head-scratching, never-run-an-offense-before coaching tandem of Matt Patricia and Joe Judge. Jettisoning them after a season in favor of O’Brien. Putting Jones behind a revolving door of retread offensive linemen around dependable center David Andrews (necessary after letting Joe Thuney leave just as Jones was arriving or Ted Karras leave after a solid year in front of the rookie Jones). A stunning lack of game-breaking talent at wide receiver, made worse by letting favored Jones target Jakobi Meyers walk away to the Raiders. No interest in retaining solid running back and Jones bestie Damien Harris, and failing to add a good third-down back to give Jones a dependable outlet.

Eighty-three career sacks later, including a season-high five by halftime Sunday, and Jones is a shell of himself. And now, more than ever, the sacks are as much on Jones as they are on the line. He’s jittery, as evidenced by the quick release on the final interception, as he no longer seems willing (or able) to stand in the pocket and take hits, damaged enough that he is hearing footsteps.

At this point, he’d be better off without the Patriots as much as they’d be better off without him.[/b]

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/11/13/sports/mac-jones-patriots/

The level of negligence is pretty incredible…

Two years ago this guy threw for 3800 yards and 22 touchdowns against 13 picks, got a Pro Bowl invite and finished 2nd in ROTY voting. Today he can't even see open receivers 20 yards in front of him.

Bill's coaching has been up and down but his team management has been execrable.

Or "excrement." ;D
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Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #916 on: November 14, 2023, 07:33:50 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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”Jack Jones quickly found a new home after getting waived by the Patriots on Monday.

The cornerback was claimed by the Las Vegas Raiders on Tuesday, where he’ll join a slew of former New England players, as well as be reunited with Antonio Pierce — who coached Jones in high school and in college.”
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Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #917 on: November 14, 2023, 08:32:19 PM »

Online Phantom255x

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It's true that the Pats are 11-21 (playoffs included) since that game against the Bills in the hurricane-like conditions in 2021. But I don't see how that night alone suddenly accounts for Mac Jones turning into a pumpkin. For one, while they struggled late in 2021 they also got dealt a ton of injuries. In the wild card game against BUF, it was basically just JC Jackson and then a bunch of practice squad guys in the secondary.

And don't even get me started with the moronic decision to bring Patricia and Judge in to run offense in 2022, and also our O-Line has gotten horrendous since 2021. Even in 2021 it was a little iffy but still mostly solid. 2022 was bad and 2023 is downright horrific.

Remember Trevor Lawrence having Urban Meyer in 2021, then going to Pederson a year later? Mac almost had the opposite outcome, he went from McDaniels and a more stable staff to all the drama with Patricia/Judge.

They still didn't add any legit weapons for Mac, and other things like Special Teams remain really bad yet for some reason Cam Achord is still employed... and make no mistake, special teams has cost them some games too like the Bills game last season where they gave up not one, but two kickoff return for TD. They gave up a crucial one against the Vikings on Thanksgiving too

I put a majority of that on Belichick. He ruined Mac and he has no clue how to build and run an offense. Brady definitely ran it back in the day and covered up a lot because he's the GOAT. Belichick is also the GM and sorry, he's built a horrible roster. There's only really 2 blue chip guys we have on the team (Gonzalez, Judon, maybe Henry/Stevenson?).

Mac Jones isn't an elite guy, but he can absolutely be a solid QB in this league. Put him on a team like the Niners and he'd definitely thrive. Now before anyone says, "but any QB could do the same". Yeah go figure! Tua and Hurts for example had the exact same doubts from people a few years ago, and their GM's/organizations gave them a great HC, legit weapons (Hill/Waddle/Smith/Brown) and offensive-minded coaches all over. All of a sudden they look like MVP candidates, and Hurts reached a SB last season and has a good chance to again this season
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Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #918 on: November 14, 2023, 10:55:56 PM »

Online Moranis

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It's true that the Pats are 11-21 (playoffs included) since that game against the Bills in the hurricane-like conditions in 2021. But I don't see how that night alone suddenly accounts for Mac Jones turning into a pumpkin. For one, while they struggled late in 2021 they also got dealt a ton of injuries. In the wild card game against BUF, it was basically just JC Jackson and then a bunch of practice squad guys in the secondary.

And don't even get me started with the moronic decision to bring Patricia and Judge in to run offense in 2022, and also our O-Line has gotten horrendous since 2021. Even in 2021 it was a little iffy but still mostly solid. 2022 was bad and 2023 is downright horrific.

Remember Trevor Lawrence having Urban Meyer in 2021, then going to Pederson a year later? Mac almost had the opposite outcome, he went from McDaniels and a more stable staff to all the drama with Patricia/Judge.

They still didn't add any legit weapons for Mac, and other things like Special Teams remain really bad yet for some reason Cam Achord is still employed... and make no mistake, special teams has cost them some games too like the Bills game last season where they gave up not one, but two kickoff return for TD. They gave up a crucial one against the Vikings on Thanksgiving too

I put a majority of that on Belichick. He ruined Mac and he has no clue how to build and run an offense. Brady definitely ran it back in the day and covered up a lot because he's the GOAT. Belichick is also the GM and sorry, he's built a horrible roster. There's only really 2 blue chip guys we have on the team (Gonzalez, Judon, maybe Henry/Stevenson?).

Mac Jones isn't an elite guy, but he can absolutely be a solid QB in this league. Put him on a team like the Niners and he'd definitely thrive. Now before anyone says, "but any QB could do the same". Yeah go figure! Tua and Hurts for example had the exact same doubts from people a few years ago, and their GM's/organizations gave them a great HC, legit weapons (Hill/Waddle/Smith/Brown) and offensive-minded coaches all over. All of a sudden they look like MVP candidates, and Hurts reached a SB last season and has a good chance to again this season
To be clear, I don't think that night alone caused Mac to turn into a pumpkin, I think that night was an example that Bill showed the world that he didn't believe in Mac (and certainly didn't believe he had a NFL arm). Basically every decision Bill has made has been to the detriment of Mac.  Maybe Mac's attitude rubbed Bill the wrong way. Who knows, but you don't play a NFL game in this era and don't throw the ball (it was the fewest attempts since 1974, before that it was 1968, and it has been at least 70 years to have another game with 3 or fewer passes).  The Bills threw it 30 times. Patriots just didn't trust Mac's arm and that was the problem. It was a lack of trust in your QB. That sort of thing just permeates.  Had the Patriots not collapsed, then it would just be a blip, but there was a dramatic turn to the negative starting immediately after that game.  I just don't think that is a coincidence.
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Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #919 on: November 14, 2023, 11:50:27 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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Pats receiving corps leaders:
1. WR Kendrick Bourne 406 yards
2. WR Demario Douglas (rookie) 361 yards
3. TE Hunter Henry 298 yards
4. RB Rhamondre Stevenson 229 yards
5. TE Matt Gesicki 182 yards
6. TE Pharaoh Brown 170 yards
7. RB Devontay Parker 158 yards
8. WR JuJu Smith Schuster 149 yards
9. RB Ezekiel Elliot 108 yards
10. WR Ty Montgomery 23 yards

So that's ONE veteran WR with more than 150 yards! Stevenson is an awful receiver but he's 4th in yards. Are you kidding me?!?

We have no #1 receiver, no slot receiver,  no 3rd down back. It is crazy how poorly constructed this offense is.

Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #920 on: November 15, 2023, 12:41:45 AM »

Online SparzWizard

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Pats receiving corps leaders:
1. WR Kendrick Bourne 406 yards
2. WR Demario Douglas (rookie) 361 yards
3. TE Hunter Henry 298 yards
4. RB Rhamondre Stevenson 229 yards
5. TE Matt Gesicki 182 yards
6. TE Pharaoh Brown 170 yards
7. RB Devontay Parker 158 yards
8. WR JuJu Smith Schuster 149 yards
9. RB Ezekiel Elliot 108 yards
10. WR Ty Montgomery 23 yards

So that's ONE veteran WR with more than 150 yards! Stevenson is an awful receiver but he's 4th in yards. Are you kidding me?!?

We have no #1 receiver, no slot receiver,  no 3rd down back. It is crazy how poorly constructed this offense is.

We could've paid Jakobi Meyers but nah Bill signed up for Juju Smith-Schuster instead.


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Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #921 on: November 15, 2023, 06:21:21 AM »

Online Moranis

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Pats receiving corps leaders:
1. WR Kendrick Bourne 406 yards
2. WR Demario Douglas (rookie) 361 yards
3. TE Hunter Henry 298 yards
4. RB Rhamondre Stevenson 229 yards
5. TE Matt Gesicki 182 yards
6. TE Pharaoh Brown 170 yards
7. RB Devontay Parker 158 yards
8. WR JuJu Smith Schuster 149 yards
9. RB Ezekiel Elliot 108 yards
10. WR Ty Montgomery 23 yards

So that's ONE veteran WR with more than 150 yards! Stevenson is an awful receiver but he's 4th in yards. Are you kidding me?!?

We have no #1 receiver, no slot receiver,  no 3rd down back. It is crazy how poorly constructed this offense is.
Not even a #2 WR, but this has been known all year.  The RB's are good but unspectacular, but all the other offensive position groups are bad to terrible.  Perhaps the TE's are mediocre.  Again this has been known all year.  It was obvious this was a terrible offense which was always going to make this a bad team.  Now maybe the full depth of terrible wasn't known, but this team was always destined to be bad.
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Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #922 on: November 15, 2023, 08:27:48 AM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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This has been a bad year to watch the Pats. The only solace for me was that I get to pay attention to draft prospects for the first time in my lifetime. We want a top 2 pick to get a QB, but this draft has immense levels of talent at the top. I threw together a quick prospect breakdown for people to see why we honestly shouldn't win another game this year.

1.   Marvin Harrison Jr. WR – 6’4 205 lbs. Ohio State – Considered to be almost the perfect WR prospect. Moves like a 6’0 explosive wide receiver. Has some of the best body control and ability to adjust to the ball in the air that analysts have seen. Best separator in the class. His only criticism coming into the year was about his top end straight line speed. Most analysts agree he has answered those questions. He is a Jamar Chase level prospect coming out of college. You could make an argument his only flaw is that he isn’t 2 inches taller and named Calvin Johnson Jr.

2.   Caleb Williams QB – 6’1 215lbs – USC – Free wheeling, free roaming QB who has all of the arm talent in the world. Talked about in the same stratosphere as Lawrence and Luck in terms of talent coming out of college. Had a difficult stretch recently to temper some of the hype, but rebounded. He tends to make young player mistakes once in a while, but when he is locked in his accuracy is other worldly. Can make any throw in the book. Main criticism is that he struggles to play in structure. Out of structure he is a pure savant. Williams or Maye will be the 1 and 2 picks in the draft. In a league that loves stars, Caleb screams star. Some concerns over statements he has made about team selection and having ownership in a team right away.

3.   Olu Fashanu T – 6’6 320 lbs – Penn State – Tackle prospect built in a lab. Considered to have great or elite traits in every physical aspect. Great technique. Is the rare combination of Elite traits/potential and production at the college level. Elite pass blocker, technically sound run blocker. I have heard he could be more aggressive in his run blocking. His worst game was against Ohio, and he recovered almost every time he was beat. Fits the bill of a blue chip franchise tackle.

4.   Drake Maye QB – 6’4 230 lbs – UNC – Would be considered the QB1 in most drafts. Big bodied QB with a cannon for an arm that throws a feathery ball to all 3 levels of the field. Insane arm talent, can make any type of throw. Even though he is a bigger QB, can get out and run. Dangerous with legs and arm in the red zone. When Williams was struggling, he made up some ground and made it a discussion for the 1st overall pick. Considered a grind it out worker. My personal favorite QB in the draft.

Brock Bowers TE – 6’4 240 lbs- Georgia – The best TE prospect to come through college in recent memory. Only reason he may go around 10 is Pitts ruined elite TE prospects. If he was in the draft, he would have been an early 2nd round pick as a true freshman. Was a roughly 1000 yard receiver, 10+ touchdown producer for back to back title teams. Elite separator, elite hands. Elite at after the catch production. Good run blocker who gives 100% effort. If he was listed at WR, he would be the 3rd highest rated WR in the draft.

Joe Alt T – 6’8 325 lbs – Norte Dame – Elite physical tools. Converted TE that gets better year after year. Elite run blocker, good pass blocker.

We need to build for the future and one of the top 2 QBs could jumpstart that for us in terms of talent. If the Patriots held position at 3rd or 4th pick, they would end up with Marvin Harrison Jr or Olu. Either would be foundational level building blocks.

Prior to the year, if we were around pick 10 or 11 I would have wanted to trade up for Bowers. Kid will be a stud. We are too bad to even consider taking him though. It just wouldn't make sense with assets.

Anyway sorry for the word vomit, but with each loss I get more and more excited for April.  8)
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Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #923 on: November 15, 2023, 10:08:35 AM »

Online Moranis

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Depends who has the picks. Bears have a chance at 2 top 5 picks. They'd trade Fields and draft Williams or Maye I imagine without much thought.  Cardinals have a lot of money invested in Murray who has generally played well. Im not so sure they'd take a QB and would probably be open to a trade of a top pick (trade 1 for 3 or 4, a 2nd rounder, and a future 1st). Giants have a lot of money in Jones, but they'd easily move off him for a top tier QB, but that would also make Jones available.  So potentially 3 starting QB's in Fields, Jones, and Murray could be available this offseason. And that doesn’t account for Rams, Titans, or Packers who are all also in the mix for a top few pick and have veteran QB's.

A lot can happen before end of season, but the draft positioning is going to be pretty interesting with potentially 2 HOF talents at QB and the best WR prospect probably ever. 
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Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #924 on: November 15, 2023, 10:33:07 AM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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I agree Mo. I am kind of working off the assumption that if a team doesn't NEED a QB in the top 2, a team would get a kings ransom to move back a few spots (Cardinals possibly.) Alot also matters on what happens with the Patriots front office. Belichick isn't one to give up real assets to move up a spot or 2 for a QB. If there is a huge overhaul, anything could be on the board. Alot of moving pieces, but it is a good year to be in the top few spots of the draft.
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Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #925 on: November 15, 2023, 12:38:11 PM »

Online Phantom255x

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It's true that the Pats are 11-21 (playoffs included) since that game against the Bills in the hurricane-like conditions in 2021. But I don't see how that night alone suddenly accounts for Mac Jones turning into a pumpkin. For one, while they struggled late in 2021 they also got dealt a ton of injuries. In the wild card game against BUF, it was basically just JC Jackson and then a bunch of practice squad guys in the secondary.

And don't even get me started with the moronic decision to bring Patricia and Judge in to run offense in 2022, and also our O-Line has gotten horrendous since 2021. Even in 2021 it was a little iffy but still mostly solid. 2022 was bad and 2023 is downright horrific.

Remember Trevor Lawrence having Urban Meyer in 2021, then going to Pederson a year later? Mac almost had the opposite outcome, he went from McDaniels and a more stable staff to all the drama with Patricia/Judge.

They still didn't add any legit weapons for Mac, and other things like Special Teams remain really bad yet for some reason Cam Achord is still employed... and make no mistake, special teams has cost them some games too like the Bills game last season where they gave up not one, but two kickoff return for TD. They gave up a crucial one against the Vikings on Thanksgiving too

I put a majority of that on Belichick. He ruined Mac and he has no clue how to build and run an offense. Brady definitely ran it back in the day and covered up a lot because he's the GOAT. Belichick is also the GM and sorry, he's built a horrible roster. There's only really 2 blue chip guys we have on the team (Gonzalez, Judon, maybe Henry/Stevenson?).

Mac Jones isn't an elite guy, but he can absolutely be a solid QB in this league. Put him on a team like the Niners and he'd definitely thrive. Now before anyone says, "but any QB could do the same". Yeah go figure! Tua and Hurts for example had the exact same doubts from people a few years ago, and their GM's/organizations gave them a great HC, legit weapons (Hill/Waddle/Smith/Brown) and offensive-minded coaches all over. All of a sudden they look like MVP candidates, and Hurts reached a SB last season and has a good chance to again this season
To be clear, I don't think that night alone caused Mac to turn into a pumpkin, I think that night was an example that Bill showed the world that he didn't believe in Mac (and certainly didn't believe he had a NFL arm). Basically every decision Bill has made has been to the detriment of Mac.  Maybe Mac's attitude rubbed Bill the wrong way. Who knows, but you don't play a NFL game in this era and don't throw the ball (it was the fewest attempts since 1974, before that it was 1968, and it has been at least 70 years to have another game with 3 or fewer passes).  The Bills threw it 30 times. Patriots just didn't trust Mac's arm and that was the problem. It was a lack of trust in your QB. That sort of thing just permeates.  Had the Patriots not collapsed, then it would just be a blip, but there was a dramatic turn to the negative starting immediately after that game.  I just don't think that is a coincidence.

Oh yeah, I wasn't accusing you of anything with that post. I'm just adding light to the fact that this whole operation has become dysfunctional. Frankly, even the 2020 season felt odd with the Newton signing last minute, no real plan post-Brady, and they finished 7-9 with some bad blowout losses late to the Bills and Rams. 2021 didn't start of well either all around. Not all Mac's fault, but the team around him struggled as well. Tbh, that 7-game win streak they had in 2021 feels like an outlier compared to everything else since 2020, and during that time they faced many easy teams like ATL, CAR, etc. Not to suddenly act like those don't count,  but outside of BUF in Week 7 this year and maybe a few games 2020 + 2021 (Ravens in the monsoon game, Bills in wind game, Titans and Chargers 2021) they've mostly lost to good teams. But now they can't even beat the mediocre ones.

Maybe guys like Penix, McCarthy, Nix, Daniels, etc. are better than Mac, but those are 2nd tier QB prospects and who is to say they'll find success in NE with a poor O-Line, poor coaching and no weapons either. Obviously Williams + Maye are Tier 1 and you take them if you have the chance, but otherwise I don't see much changing even if you draft a 2nd tier QB prospect. Mac Jones was actually considered similar in 2021, he had an amazing year in Bama with weapons and a great roster. He was still the 5th QB guy taken in the Draft.

I just pray Kraft doesn't make the mistake of assuming Mac is god awful and so he gives Belichick "another chance" with another QB, when honestly Belichick is the real problem especially as GM and he practically sabotaged Mac and many others on the team in recent years. Even if Mac is bad, Belichick didn't do anything to actually help his development nor did he properly utilize the "rookie contract" to his advantage in using that cap space to add studs on the team like other teams have. He had some hits in guys like Judon, Henry, etc. but also a ton of whiffs (Jonnu, Agholor, etc.) and he let Meyers just walk away despite being easily our best WR since 2019.
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Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #926 on: November 15, 2023, 04:15:07 PM »

Online Moranis

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Mac may not play again in NE. I mean he was benched at the 2 minute warning with the ball and down 4.  If that doesn't say lack of trust, I don't know what will.
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Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #927 on: November 15, 2023, 05:18:42 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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Mac may not play again in NE. I mean he was benched at the 2 minute warning with the ball and down 4.  If that doesn't say lack of trust, I don't know what will.

FOXBOROUGH – Bill Belichick might be playing mind games, but on Wednesday, it appeared as though the Patriots were sticking with Mac Jones as their starting quarterback.

This day marked the only Patriots practice of their bye week. On paper, it’s a perfect opportunity to usher in a new quarterback whether that be Bailey Zappe or Will Grier. After all, if the Patriots are going to make a change, players need to get acclimated to the new starting quarterback.

On Wednesday, however, it appeared to be business as usual on the Gillette Stadium practice fields.

The team’s practice started with a drill where the quarterback worked fast to get downfield. Wednesday’s practice started with Mac Jones taking the first reps and practicing with starting center David Andrews among others. After multiple reps, Bailey Zappe took over but wasn’t with the team’s starting center or projected starting offensive line. The third rep went to Will Grier, who was working with third-string center James Ferentz.

After this drill, quarterbacks had position drills where they threw to receivers. Once again, Jones took the first reps, throwing to the team’s projected starting receivers. Zappe and Grier once again rotated after Jones.

Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #928 on: November 15, 2023, 06:43:18 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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While Bill Belichick and New England’s coaching staff have remained mum on Jones’ standing on the depth chart during the team’s bye week, Patriots legend Rob Gronkowski thinks that the third-year QB needs to take matters into his own hands.

Gronkowski believes that Jones needs to ask for a way out of New England in order to find greener pastures elsewhere in the NFL.

“I think Mac Jones should ultimately, even right now, should just go and ask for his release,” Rob Gronkowski said during his weekly appearance on the “Up & Adams Show” on Wednesday. “If you’re talking to me about what he should do: Ask for his release. And then if it gets granted, he should go sign with the Cleveland Browns and start a new career right there. They need a new quarterback. Imagine that. How wild would that be?”

“He’s got some weapons around him, and that would determine if Mac Jones is the real deal or not,” Gronkowski said of Jones joining the Browns. “I think he’s a decent quarterback. I think he’ll definitely be in the NFL for a little bit, even if it’s going to be as a backup for a little bit and then a starter once again.”
Quoting Nick from the now locked Ime thread:
Quote
At some point you have to blame the performance on the court on the players on the court. Every loss is not the coach's fault and every win isn't because of the players.

Re: Patriots 2023 Season
« Reply #929 on: November 15, 2023, 07:17:47 PM »

Offline ozgod

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Mac may not play again in NE. I mean he was benched at the 2 minute warning with the ball and down 4.  If that doesn't say lack of trust, I don't know what will.

FOXBOROUGH – Bill Belichick might be playing mind games, but on Wednesday, it appeared as though the Patriots were sticking with Mac Jones as their starting quarterback.

This day marked the only Patriots practice of their bye week. On paper, it’s a perfect opportunity to usher in a new quarterback whether that be Bailey Zappe or Will Grier. After all, if the Patriots are going to make a change, players need to get acclimated to the new starting quarterback.

On Wednesday, however, it appeared to be business as usual on the Gillette Stadium practice fields.

The team’s practice started with a drill where the quarterback worked fast to get downfield. Wednesday’s practice started with Mac Jones taking the first reps and practicing with starting center David Andrews among others. After multiple reps, Bailey Zappe took over but wasn’t with the team’s starting center or projected starting offensive line. The third rep went to Will Grier, who was working with third-string center James Ferentz.

After this drill, quarterbacks had position drills where they threw to receivers. Once again, Jones took the first reps, throwing to the team’s projected starting receivers. Zappe and Grier once again rotated after Jones.


Whatever mind games he's playing by creating uncertainty is only hurting his own team, not the opposition.
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