Patriots 2023 Season

[Donoghus]

It is interesting.  I went back to see exactly what the 49ers gave up to move up to #3 in 2021 to take Trey Lance.  It was 3 firsts and a third.  The actual players turned out to be:

2021  #12  Micah Parsons LB
2022  #22  Cole Strange G
2022 #101 Channing Tindall LB
2023  #29  Bryan Bresee DT

Yes, Cole Strange came by the 49ers pick that eventually made it to the Pats.  So would you rather have that or would you rather have 1 top WR prospect?  Maybe a team that is already set with plenty of depth would rather have that one cherry on top WR but the Pats need depth.

If Trey Lance had turned out to be Mahomes, the 49ers would be happy with the trade.  But there is no WR ever, not Randy Moss, not anyone, who would have been worth that trade.  The 49ers would never have given up that for a WR but they did for a QB.

That also might go down as the worst trade of all time considering the capital that was given up for a guy that was a long shot to begin with and a complete bust so far in the NFL. I wouldn’t expect other teams to make a similar trade after seeing how foolish that move made SF look.

The Panthers gave up 2023 first-round (No. 9) and second-round (61) picks, their 2024 first-round pick (currently No. 1) and receiver DJ Moore (their 2018 first-rounder).  This was for the #1 pick, not #3 but the point is that it was also for a QB.  They gave up a #1 receiver and a bunch of picks for a QB.  So about the same at least as 3-firsts and a second.

If there were no high end QB prospects expected at #3, the Pats would have way less opportunity to trade down and in that case, would understandably be looking more seriously at drafting Harrison.  Teams may be gun shy based on the recent big QB trade-up trades, but I think the Pats will likely be offered some pretty good value for this pick.  If they don't like the QBs (and maybe they do like one or more of them), they should trade the pick to someone that does, not take Harrison or a tackle.

Carolina also gave up a 2025 second in that deal.  Carolina also allegedly preferred including a 2025 #1 into of Moore, who the Bears insisted on.

The Pats won't do that well, but they might be able to slide down 5 or 6 slots and end up with a future first and a second, or even better. 

I've got to think that one of Odunze / Nabers / Alt + #1 + #2 > MHJ

Such a horrible deal by Carolina.

[Neurotic Guy]

It is interesting.  I went back to see exactly what the 49ers gave up to move up to #3 in 2021 to take Trey Lance.  It was 3 firsts and a third.  The actual players turned out to be:

2021  #12  Micah Parsons LB
2022  #22  Cole Strange G
2022 #101 Channing Tindall LB
2023  #29  Bryan Bresee DT

Yes, Cole Strange came by the 49ers pick that eventually made it to the Pats.  So would you rather have that or would you rather have 1 top WR prospect?  Maybe a team that is already set with plenty of depth would rather have that one cherry on top WR but the Pats need depth.

If Trey Lance had turned out to be Mahomes, the 49ers would be happy with the trade.  But there is no WR ever, not Randy Moss, not anyone, who would have been worth that trade.  The 49ers would never have given up that for a WR but they did for a QB.

That also might go down as the worst trade of all time considering the capital that was given up for a guy that was a long shot to begin with and a complete bust so far in the NFL. I wouldn’t expect other teams to make a similar trade after seeing how foolish that move made SF look.

The Panthers gave up 2023 first-round (No. 9) and second-round (61) picks, their 2024 first-round pick (currently No. 1) and receiver DJ Moore (their 2018 first-rounder).  This was for the #1 pick, not #3 but the point is that it was also for a QB.  They gave up a #1 receiver and a bunch of picks for a QB.  So about the same at least as 3-firsts and a second.

If there were no high end QB prospects expected at #3, the Pats would have way less opportunity to trade down and in that case, would understandably be looking more seriously at drafting Harrison.  Teams may be gun shy based on the recent big QB trade-up trades, but I think the Pats will likely be offered some pretty good value for this pick.  If they don't like the QBs (and maybe they do like one or more of them), they should trade the pick to someone that does, not take Harrison or a tackle.

Carolina also gave up a 2025 second in that deal.  Carolina also allegedly preferred including a 2025 #1 into of Moore, who the Bears insisted on.

The Pats won't do that well, but they might be able to slide down 5 or 6 slots and end up with a future first and a second, or even better. 

I've got to think that one of Odunze / Nabers / Alt + #1 + #2 > MHJ

I think if Pats fans can let go of the upcoming season a bit (that is, not worry about playoffs, just a gradual improvement of the roster/assets) it might be a better mindset.  The process to get back in this is probably a 3 year process at best (maybe playoff contention in year 2 if all goes great) , and that requires attaining a good QB in that time.  I can picture the Pats struggling next season and still have fans disappointed and angry when we KNOW this is going to take some time.

[Phantom255x]

Salary cap was officially announced, and the Pats are projected to have around 87M in cap space. And if they simply release JC Jackson (or restructure/work out a more incentivized deal), it goes up to BEYOND 100M.

No excuses Kraft. Go spend on legitimate talent.

[Donoghus]

Salary cap was officially announced, and the Pats are projected to have around 87M in cap space. And if they simply release JC Jackson (or restructure/work out a more incentivized deal), it goes up to BEYOND 100M.

No excuses Kraft. Go spend on legitimate talent.

NFL is printing money these days. 

[Goldstar88]

Kraft has some explaining to do…

The Patriots ranked near the bottom of the NFLPA’s annual survey of working conditions

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2024/02/28/patriots-nflpa-grades-2024-robert-kraft/

[Donoghus]

Kraft has some explaining to do…

The Patriots ranked near the bottom of the NFLPA’s annual survey of working conditions

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2024/02/28/patriots-nflpa-grades-2024-robert-kraft/

He lost me during Deflategate when left Brady out to dry. 

It's almost like they won all those Super Bowls in spite of the guy. 

[Phantom255x]

Brady carried them. It was him, period. Belichick was part of it too, I'm not one of those guys who says he did nothing. I have it like 70-30 Brady-Belichick which is fair, I mean most probably have it like 70-30 for Mahomes-Reid as well. But now you wonder if Belichick himself might have been restricted from what he could do? The Pats have 100M in cap space, so there's zero excuses not to spend on talent. Kraft doesn't have Belichick to hide behind.

But when you factor in this recent survey, all the statistics about "cash spending" in the past decade (or lack thereof), the documentary where Kraft seems to take credit for everything while it's also being treated as a hit piece on Belichick, and then him being pretty absent during the Spygate/Deflategate sagas compared to Brady/Belichick, it's not been a good offseason for Kraft. Even in this survey, Belichick graded out a lot better than Kraft even though I know Belichick's wasn't stellar either.

Brady carried the Pats franchise and made up for a lot of the draft mistakes (Belichick) and lack of spending (Kraft). Makes you wonder how many SBs Brady could have actually won in NE if they spent money and were at least solid in the Drafts (maybe 8+?)

And I'm sorry, I know Belichick was the GM but after 2019 if Kraft really wanted Brady, he would have put his foot down and forced the deal to happen. Brady wanted similar to what Brees was getting (2/60M) and Kraft probably didn't want to finally pay him big money. People are being pretty naive if they think Kraft was "hands-free" in all that, he's the freakin' owner.

[BitterJim]

Brady carried them. It was him, period. Belichick was part of it too, I'm not one of those guys who says he did nothing. I have it like 70-30 Brady-Belichick which is fair, I mean most probably have it like 70-30 for Mahomes-Reid as well. But now you wonder if Belichick himself might have been restricted from what he could do? The Pats have 100M in cap space, so there's zero excuses not to spend on talent. Kraft doesn't have Belichick to hide behind.

But when you factor in this recent survey, all the statistics about "cash spending" in the past decade (or lack thereof), the documentary where Kraft seems to take credit for everything while it's also being treated as a hit piece on Belichick, and then him being pretty absent during the Spygate/Deflategate sagas compared to Brady/Belichick, it's not been a good offseason for Kraft. Even in this survey, Belichick graded out a lot better than Kraft even though I know Belichick's wasn't stellar either.

Brady carried the Pats franchise and made up for a lot of the draft mistakes (Belichick) and lack of spending (Kraft). Makes you wonder how many SBs Brady could have actually won in NE if they spent money and were at least solid in the Drafts (maybe 8+?)

And I'm sorry, I know Belichick was the GM but after 2019 if Kraft really wanted Brady, he would have put his foot down and forced the deal to happen. Brady wanted similar to what Brees was getting (2/60M) and Kraft probably didn't want to finally pay him big money. People are being pretty naive if they think Kraft was "hands-free" in all that, he's the freakin' owner.

The cash spending is the dumbest thing. We have lower cash spent because the people picking the time period choose to start when we had a bunch of dead money (since that makes us look bad) while we don't have much now.

It's parroted constantly by guys like Felger and Mazz but even a basic look at the math shows that it's not actually meaningful.

[green_bballers13]

This is a feeding frenzy for all Belichick or Kraft criticism. They were horrible last year, so people are pretending like the previous 24 years didn't matter. I think the short-term bias is wild. Enough posters have said that "fan" is short for "fanatic", which is a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal. As long as we expect overreactions, we can eliminate the need for rational thought.

[Goldstar88]

Good interview between Hoyer and Curran from earlier today.. some behind the scenes insight regarding what took place in NE before he left.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hmxhL6dOMe8&pp=ygUWYnJpYW4gaG95ZXIgdG9tIGN1cnJhbg%3D%3D

[Larry for 3]

This is a feeding frenzy for all Belichick or Kraft criticism. They were horrible last year, so people are pretending like the previous 24 years didn't matter. I think the short-term bias is wild. Enough posters have said that "fan" is short for "fanatic", which is a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal. As long as we expect overreactions, we can eliminate the need for rational thought.

Patriots fans just can’t stop living in the past. It’s always the past, the past, the past. Everybody else has moved on. Reality is they stink. The Chiefs rule the NFL now.  But hey, they”ll always be those DVD’s.

[SparzWizard]

Robert Kraft is a fraud, too

[celticsclay]

This is a feeding frenzy for all Belichick or Kraft criticism. They were horrible last year, so people are pretending like the previous 24 years didn't matter. I think the short-term bias is wild. Enough posters have said that "fan" is short for "fanatic", which is a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal. As long as we expect overreactions, we can eliminate the need for rational thought.

Patriots fans just can’t stop living in the past. It’s always the past, the past, the past. Everybody else has moved on. Reality is they stink. The Chiefs rule the NFL now.  But hey, they”ll always be those DVD’s.

You do realize we are discussing a documentary that is having new episodes released each week? Or are you just making a terrible post?

[Phantom255x]

I'm becoming more and more convinced by the day that Jayden Daniels is going #2. He would fit Washington and Kingsbury's system better, but also he seems to be rising on a lot of boards and mocks over Maye. So ultimately, the Pats have to determine if they truly love Maye or have their doubts. If they truly love the guy, take him at #3. If not, trade down for a bunch of picks/assets. I don't want them taking Maye just because they want a QB, otherwise you're in a Mac Jones situation all over where he's the "5th QB taken but probably taken too high because of some desperation".

I think the ceiling with Maye and upside is tantalizing. He has a lot of the same traits as Herbert and Josh Allen (NOT saying he will be Josh Allen, but he could be close at his ceiling). He's got great size and sneaky good athleticism. He's dealt with adversity in college which Daniels and Mac Jones didn't on pretty loaded offenses. There are quite a few risks though too, he's not as consistent as the others at the top and it may take some time for him to truly develop, so patience is required just like the Bills with Josh Allen (remember, he was pretty bad his first 2-3 seasons).

Right now? If you asked me gun to my head, I'm taking Drake Maye at #3. Then use #34 on a tackle like Paul or Guyton. You have 100M in cap space, no excuses not to add some pieces during FA as well as retain a few key guys (Henry, Bourne, Onwenu, etc.). There really is ZERO excuses not to build a solid O-Line this time around. No more of the bum reclamation projects like Reiff, Calvin Anderson, Vedarian Lowe, etc.

[SparzWizard]

I'm becoming more and more convinced by the day that Jayden Daniels is going #2. He would fit Washington and Kingsbury's system better, but also he seems to be rising on a lot of boards and mocks over Maye. So ultimately, the Pats have to determine if they truly love Maye or have their doubts. If they truly love the guy, take him at #3. If not, trade down for a bunch of picks/assets. I don't want them taking Maye just because they want a QB, otherwise you're in a Mac Jones situation all over where he's the "5th QB taken but probably taken too high because of some desperation".

I think the ceiling with Maye and upside is tantalizing. He has a lot of the same traits as Herbert and Josh Allen (NOT saying he will be Josh Allen, but he could be close at his ceiling). He's got great size and sneaky good athleticism. He's dealt with adversity in college which Daniels and Mac Jones didn't on pretty loaded offenses. There are quite a few risks though too, he's not as consistent as the others at the top and it may take some time for him to truly develop, so patience is required just like the Bills with Josh Allen (remember, he was pretty bad his first 2-3 seasons).

Right now? If you asked me gun to my head, I'm taking Drake Maye at #3. Then use #34 on a tackle like Paul or Guyton. You have 100M in cap space, no excuses not to add some pieces during FA as well as retain a few key guys (Henry, Bourne, Onwenu, etc.). There really is ZERO excuses not to build a solid O-Line this time around. No more of the bum reclamation projects like Reiff, Calvin Anderson, Vedarian Lowe, etc.

Might need to ask our good buddy Robert Kraft if he would allow Jerod Mayo to build a roster, or want Mayo to pick up guys at the local 7-11 store.