Patriots 2023 Season

[Donoghus]

J.C. Jackson released.

Patriots now have $100 million in cap room.

[Phantom255x]

J.C. Jackson released.

Patriots now have $100 million in cap room.

No excuses for Kraft. Get cooking. Go get elite talent and also keep some of your own worthy guys (Henry, Bourne, Onwenu, etc.)

[Donoghus]

J.C. Jackson released.

Patriots now have $100 million in cap room.

No excuses for Kraft. Get cooking. Go get elite talent and also keep some of your own worthy guys (Henry, Bourne, Onwenu, etc.)

I think Onewenu is the #1 priority.  Then Dugger.  Henry if the price is right.  I'd like Bryant back.   I'm pretty indifferent on Bourne. Mack Wilson Sr. would be nice to have back.  Besides that, no one really jumps out at me worth retaining.

[johnnygreen]

J.C. Jackson released.

Patriots now have $100 million in cap room.

My fear is non of the worthwhile free agents will come here, and the Patriots may have to overpay for average players just to meet the minimum salary cap.

[ozgod]

Pats looking at Baker Mayfield as the bridge QB to their QB of the future. If they pick a QB at No.3 they plan to sit him for the season a la Mahomes so he doesn't get destroyed like Mac Jones was by having an O-line of turnstiles and a receiver corps with bars of soap for hands.

Following reports about the Patriots’ plan at the quarterback position this coming season, the team is reportedly interested in signing veteran Baker Mayfield.

Mayfield, who turns 29 in April, “has supporters” in Foxborough, per the Boston Herald’s Doug Kyed.

The former No. 1 overall draft pick would fit New England’s reported objective at quarterback in 2024 if the Patriots were to sign him this offseason. According to MassLive, the organization wants to revamp its signal-caller room by drafting a quarterback at No. 3 next month and signing a veteran.

In this scenario, come Week 1, the Patriots would start the veteran and sit the rookie behind him.

Plus, if Baker did make it to New England, he would feel right at home, given we're becoming Cleveland-on-the-Charles.

If Mayfield does end up in New England, he would recognize a handful of faces, as noted by Kyed.

Current Patriots’ scouting director Eliot Wolf was the Cleveland Browns’ assistant general manager when Cleveland drafted Mayfield in 2018. New England’s offensive coordinator, Alex Van Pelt, held the same role with the Browns during the final two years of Mayfield’s tenure.

T.C. McCartney, the Patriots’ quarterbacks coach, also held offensive coaching roles in Cleveland alongside the quarterback.

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2024/03/01/nfl-patriots-quarterback-baker-mayfield-rumors/?p1=hp_featurestack

[Roy H.]

Pats looking at Baker Mayfield as the bridge QB to their QB of the future. If they pick a QB at No.3 they plan to sit him for the season a la Mahomes so he doesn't get destroyed like Mac Jones was by having an O-line of turnstiles and a receiver corps with bars of soap for hands.

Why would Mayfield sign up for that gig?

[Neurotic Guy]

Pats looking at Baker Mayfield as the bridge QB to their QB of the future. If they pick a QB at No.3 they plan to sit him for the season a la Mahomes so he doesn't get destroyed like Mac Jones was by having an O-line of turnstiles and a receiver corps with bars of soap for hands.

Why would Mayfield sign up for that gig?

Assuming he’ll have options at a comparable price point you’d think no way he’d sign with NE.  Setting himself up to go right downhill again.  But the plan from the Pats perspective isn’t a bad one. 

[BitterJim]

J.C. Jackson released.

Patriots now have $100 million in cap room.

No excuses for Kraft. Get cooking. Go get elite talent and also keep some of your own worthy guys (Henry, Bourne, Onwenu, etc.)

I think my preferred strategy would be to sign a couple of big names to front-loaded contracts, just focus on getting another high pick and having more cap space next year while getting some cornerstones. Then next year focus on filling the roster gaps and trying to contend.

That's a big ask for a new GM/HC, though, they generally want to focus on immediate improvement even at the cost of long-term sustainability/contending.

[Moranis]

Pats looking at Baker Mayfield as the bridge QB to their QB of the future. If they pick a QB at No.3 they plan to sit him for the season a la Mahomes so he doesn't get destroyed like Mac Jones was by having an O-line of turnstiles and a receiver corps with bars of soap for hands.

Why would Mayfield sign up for that gig?

Assuming he’ll have options at a comparable price point you’d think no way he’d sign with NE.  Setting himself up to go right downhill again.  But the plan from the Pats perspective isn’t a bad one.

Sure, but if they are focused on Baker for that role then they are idiots because Roy is right, Baker isn't signing up for that.

[kraidstar]

Good interview between Hoyer and Curran from earlier today.. some behind the scenes insight regarding what took place in NE before he left.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hmxhL6dOMe8&pp=ygUWYnJpYW4gaG95ZXIgdG9tIGN1cnJhbg%3D%3D

Great interview, TP

According to Hoyer, McDaniels and Brady developed a very complex but effective offense, with many branching variables to core plays to keep defenses on their heels. But Judge and Patricia jettisoned this for a hodgepodge offense that lacked purpose and was more predictable.

Hoyer insinuates that Mac pushed back on this and got railroaded. Hoyer's disillusionment probably also cost him his job as well.

[Phantom255x]

Good interview between Hoyer and Curran from earlier today.. some behind the scenes insight regarding what took place in NE before he left.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hmxhL6dOMe8&pp=ygUWYnJpYW4gaG95ZXIgdG9tIGN1cnJhbg%3D%3D

Great interview, TP

According to Hoyer, McDaniels and Brady developed a very complex but effective offense, with many branching variables to core plays to keep defenses on their heels. But Judge and Patricia jettisoned this for a hodgepodge offense that lacked purpose and was more predictable.

Hoyer insinuates that Mac pushed back on this and got railroaded. Hoyer's disillusionment probably also cost him his job as well.

Patricia to me is like the Doc Rivers of the NFL. Not sure how he keeps getting gigs despite all the turmoil and choking over the years. Mac probably isn't the guy but Patricia and Judge railroaded the 2022 season and it wasn't just Mac. Most of the offense had down years and guys like Meyers, Hoyer, etc. were jettisoned. Even Bourne was in the "doghouse" which was BS since he was one of our better receivers. Bourne was on the Niners under the Shanahan system and even told them they were doing stuff wrong and Patricia put him in a doghouse. And Henry, our best TE and they barely seemed to get him involved.

Hiring Patricia and Judge alone was a fireable offense and I think that was a big reason Belichick ultimately got canned. Even his own locker room started to go against him and he couldn't get them back.

[Vermont Green]

Good interview between Hoyer and Curran from earlier today.. some behind the scenes insight regarding what took place in NE before he left.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hmxhL6dOMe8&pp=ygUWYnJpYW4gaG95ZXIgdG9tIGN1cnJhbg%3D%3D

Great interview, TP

According to Hoyer, McDaniels and Brady developed a very complex but effective offense, with many branching variables to core plays to keep defenses on their heels. But Judge and Patricia jettisoned this for a hodgepodge offense that lacked purpose and was more predictable.

Hoyer insinuates that Mac pushed back on this and got railroaded. Hoyer's disillusionment probably also cost him his job as well.

This is interesting and thanks for the summary, but there is a flaw in Hoyer's logic.  The flaw is that even after they brought in Bill O'Brien, the offense was still rudimentary.  The problem or limitation is that you can only do as much with the complexity of the offense as the weakest link will allow.  The links are QB, OL, and targets.

Since the offense did not get any better or complex with O'Brien, it is hard to conclude that the issue was the coaching.  The core issue was that the OL and the QB limited what you could do.  If you tried to do more then the ability of these elements of the offense would allow, you are just going to end up sacked or intercepted.  The targets are a factor also but in this case, the OL and the QB were so bad, that the targets didn't even matter.

If you want to see a more complex or nuanced offense, you have to restore the infrastructure of the OL first and foremost (this includes TE and RB contributing to pass protection).  Then you need the QB.  Then you need some time with all of this in place.  It can take more than 1 season to layer in all the levels of the more complex offenses (it isn't going to happen in a single preseason).  And I don't think you need a Mahomes at QB, just a good solid QB who can process at the NFL speed of the game.

And if even 1 element breaks down, the play is busted.  If the OL doesn't read the stunts, if TE doesn't "chip" the right rusher, if the RB doesn't read the blitz, if the QB doesn't stay cool and make the read (pre-snap and otherwise), if any of these fail, the play is busted.  And it doesn't matter how good your top WR is. 

This is why the Pats play-calling was limited to such simple plays.  If Mac was complaining, it tells me he doesn't understand because it was very clear he couldn't handle even the simple offense that they were deploying (out of necessity).

[Moranis]

Good interview between Hoyer and Curran from earlier today.. some behind the scenes insight regarding what took place in NE before he left.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hmxhL6dOMe8&pp=ygUWYnJpYW4gaG95ZXIgdG9tIGN1cnJhbg%3D%3D

Great interview, TP

According to Hoyer, McDaniels and Brady developed a very complex but effective offense, with many branching variables to core plays to keep defenses on their heels. But Judge and Patricia jettisoned this for a hodgepodge offense that lacked purpose and was more predictable.

Hoyer insinuates that Mac pushed back on this and got railroaded. Hoyer's disillusionment probably also cost him his job as well.

This is interesting and thanks for the summary, but there is a flaw in Hoyer's logic.  The flaw is that even after they brought in Bill O'Brien, the offense was still rudimentary.  The problem or limitation is that you can only do as much with the complexity of the offense as the weakest link will allow.  The links are QB, OL, and targets.

Since the offense did not get any better or complex with O'Brien, it is hard to conclude that the issue was the coaching.  The core issue was that the OL and the QB limited what you could do.  If you tried to do more then the ability of these elements of the offense would allow, you are just going to end up sacked or intercepted.  The targets are a factor also but in this case, the OL and the QB were so bad, that the targets didn't even matter.

If you want to see a more complex or nuanced offense, you have to restore the infrastructure of the OL first and foremost (this includes TE and RB contributing to pass protection).  Then you need the QB.  Then you need some time with all of this in place.  It can take more than 1 season to layer in all the levels of the more complex offenses (it isn't going to happen in a single preseason).  And I don't think you need a Mahomes at QB, just a good solid QB who can process at the NFL speed of the game.

And if even 1 element breaks down, the play is busted.  If the OL doesn't read the stunts, if TE doesn't "chip" the right rusher, if the RB doesn't read the blitz, if the QB doesn't stay cool and make the read (pre-snap and otherwise), if any of these fail, the play is busted.  And it doesn't matter how good your top WR is. 

This is why the Pats play-calling was limited to such simple plays.  If Mac was complaining, it tells me he doesn't understand because it was very clear he couldn't handle even the simple offense that they were deploying (out of necessity).

Mac did ok most of his rookie year though

[Donoghus]

Good interview between Hoyer and Curran from earlier today.. some behind the scenes insight regarding what took place in NE before he left.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hmxhL6dOMe8&pp=ygUWYnJpYW4gaG95ZXIgdG9tIGN1cnJhbg%3D%3D

Great interview, TP

According to Hoyer, McDaniels and Brady developed a very complex but effective offense, with many branching variables to core plays to keep defenses on their heels. But Judge and Patricia jettisoned this for a hodgepodge offense that lacked purpose and was more predictable.

Hoyer insinuates that Mac pushed back on this and got railroaded. Hoyer's disillusionment probably also cost him his job as well.

This is interesting and thanks for the summary, but there is a flaw in Hoyer's logic.  The flaw is that even after they brought in Bill O'Brien, the offense was still rudimentary.  The problem or limitation is that you can only do as much with the complexity of the offense as the weakest link will allow.  The links are QB, OL, and targets.

Since the offense did not get any better or complex with O'Brien, it is hard to conclude that the issue was the coaching.  The core issue was that the OL and the QB limited what you could do.  If you tried to do more then the ability of these elements of the offense would allow, you are just going to end up sacked or intercepted.  The targets are a factor also but in this case, the OL and the QB were so bad, that the targets didn't even matter.

If you want to see a more complex or nuanced offense, you have to restore the infrastructure of the OL first and foremost (this includes TE and RB contributing to pass protection).  Then you need the QB.  Then you need some time with all of this in place.  It can take more than 1 season to layer in all the levels of the more complex offenses (it isn't going to happen in a single preseason).  And I don't think you need a Mahomes at QB, just a good solid QB who can process at the NFL speed of the game.

And if even 1 element breaks down, the play is busted.  If the OL doesn't read the stunts, if TE doesn't "chip" the right rusher, if the RB doesn't read the blitz, if the QB doesn't stay cool and make the read (pre-snap and otherwise), if any of these fail, the play is busted.  And it doesn't matter how good your top WR is. 

This is why the Pats play-calling was limited to such simple plays.  If Mac was complaining, it tells me he doesn't understand because it was very clear he couldn't handle even the simple offense that they were deploying (out of necessity).

Mac did ok most of his rookie year though

Yeah, and McDaniels was his offensive coordinator that season.

I definitely think Mac losing McDaniels played a role in Mac's development and the subsequent revolving door with Patricia & O'Brian didn't help matters. 

There was other stuff at play with Mac but the constant shuffling with offensive coordinators wouldn't help any QB's development.

[Vermont Green]

Mac did ok most of his rookie year though

It is true that Mac appeared to do "OK" his rookie year, until Bill Belichick ruined him in the Buffalo game, right?  But in order for it to be true that problem was the offensive coordinator, it would have to be that Bill O'Brien was an even worse coordinator than Judge and Patricia because Mac and the Patriots overall did even worse under O'Brien.

I am not sure what Mac Jones will do if given an opportunity with a decent offensive line, decent weapons, and a decent scheme/coaching.  Maybe he is a decent QB, like he seemed to show his rookie season.  I saw a lot of bad QB from him, especially last season so I have my doubts.