Author Topic: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?  (Read 26631 times)

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Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #90 on: August 16, 2023, 05:39:23 PM »

Offline gouki88

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The 2K ratings are always a bit wack. Webber at 93 for his peak? Shocking!
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #91 on: August 16, 2023, 05:43:45 PM »

Offline Celtic Fan Forever

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So if you know Dwight and Kemp are rim-running and Peja is hanging out looking for open shots, are Billups and Majerle enough creativity to facilitate that? I'm not sure Redd or Wallace help too much with that. Baron probably does. It's probably why I was wondering if you should take Hedo or to either start Kukoc or play him over McDyess.

Kukoc is a guy I am trying to figure out. Very talented but is he a SF or a PF? Is he a tweener in this league? Not quite one or the other. Where does he fit in?

The guy is so skilled offensively. You want him on the floor. Good but not great shooter. Great passer. Good ball-handler. Can stretch the floor at PF. Lot of positives you want out of him.

But can he defend the other PFs in the league? A few of them certaintly. But how many of them?

And if you play him at SF, is he quick enough to cover those guys? How many of them can he cover?

It’s definitely going to be matchup dependent with Kukoc. I can play him in situations with both Kemp and Howard where he is a secondary ball handler (with whichever point guard is in there). I can also play him just alongside Howard to have optimal floor spacing. I know he’s by no means a great defender but he’ll have so much coverage with a defensive player of the year behind him no matter what. Also, in this potential lineup: Howard/Kemp/Kukoc/Majerle/Billups

Kukoc does not have to guard a big nor does he have to guard the best wing player. So I think there are certainly ways to make it work. I just love the versatility he gives this team. Want to stay big- see lineup above.
Go small- could throw out Howard/Kukoc/Wallace/Redd/Billups
That allows an elite wing defender alongside Kukoc and lets a more pure shooting 2 guard in Redd get some play because of the extra playmaking from Kukoc.

I think to answer your question, he’s going to play a mixture of 3 and 4 depending on matchups, and we have the versatility and personnel defensively to make it all work.
2023 CelticsStrong Historical Draft Champions - OKC Thunder
PG: Chauncey Billups/ Baron Davis
SG: Michael Redd/ Dan Majerle/ Allan Houston
SF: Peja Stojakovic/ Gerald Wallace/ Toni Kukoc
PF: Shawn Kemp/ Antonio McDyess
C: Dwight Howard/ Tyson Chandler

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #92 on: August 16, 2023, 05:45:13 PM »

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The part that worried me about Dwight and talked me out of considering him with a first round pick was "how does he matchup with the other centers in this league?". Not the centers of his era but these centers.

I think of how Kendrick Perkins was able to do well against him defensively. To hold him down one-on-one in the post. Dwight still did Perk in the PnR and in transition but he struggled to create his own offense against Perk.

So I am looking at these guys in this league, how many of the centers could cause Dwight problems and make it difficult for him to score one-on-one?

Zo. Artis. Lanier. Yao. M Gasol. Ben Wallace. Mutombo.

That is 7 of the 11 opponent teams right there. So if you take away Dwight's one-on-one scoring, how much more valuable is he than say someone like a Mutombo or a Ben Wallace?

That question bothered me.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2023, 06:00:24 PM by Who »

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #93 on: August 16, 2023, 05:55:52 PM »

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I was listening to the point forward podcast with Evan Turner and Andre Iguodala. The episode with Steve Kerr.

Kerr was talking about Kukoc and what a weapon Kukoc was for them coming off the bench. Using that as a template for when he was trying to talk Iggy into coming off the bench in GSW. Telling Iggy this was how valuable Kukoc was to us in Chicago when we won 3 straight.

It was also similar to the idea I was having with Danny Manning coming off the bench. An unorthodox PF. A guy with SF skills in the body of a PF. Also similar to Phil Jackson's Lakers with Robert Horry. Having that completely different type of forward / big man who can change the context of the game.



One of the things that struck me the most when I was rewatching the 2001 Finals recently was the absence of Kukoc and role of Horry in that series. So Philly traded Kukoc with Ratliff to get Mutombo. Prior to that they had Kukoc come off the bench and open up the offense for Iverson. It was a major weapon for Philly especially given their limited weaponary outside of Iverson.

In the series, LA was able to start big with a defensive PF alongside Shaq who had limited offense (Horace Grant?). Philly had the same thing with Tyrone Hill. But then they were able to bring in Horry and open up the court. Play one in four out. More space for Shaq in the paint. More space for Kobe to drive.

Philly had no skilled big man to come in for Tyrone Hill. They couldn't open up the floor for Iverson. They couldn't challenge LAL's defense to defend against a different combination. LAL was able to play the same way defensively all night. Philly could not pose any new / different questions to them.

Philly was right there in most of those games. I think only one of them was a blowout. The other ones were close down the stretch. Having one more piece could have been enough to have made that a much tougher series for LAL.

People don't talk about the loss of Kukoc or the impact that had on Philly's offense or in the outcomes in that Finals series. They should.

The moment the lost Kukoc they lost a lot. You could even see it in the regular season W-L columns after the trade was made. They missed him. As good as Mutombo played and as well as he replaced Theo Ratliff, the loss of Kukoc was never replaced.


---------------------------------------------

Same thing in that MEM vs LAL series this year. They never replaced Kyle Anderson. They had no PF with any skill once Jaren Jackson went to the bench. LAL had Hachimura. Clear advantage. Hachimura killed them. Tillman was the guy. Did not have the skill to open the court the way Hachimura could.

It is a major weapon to have a forward like that.

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #94 on: August 16, 2023, 06:06:04 PM »

Offline theswitch

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The part that worried me about Dwight and talked me out of considering him with a first round pick was "how does he matchup with the other centers in this league?". Not the centers of his era but these centers.

I think of how Kendrick Perkins was able to do well against him defensively. To hold him down one-on-one in the post. Dwight still did Perk in the PnR and in transition but he struggled to create his own offense against Perk.

So I am looking at these guys in this league, how many of the centers could cause Dwight problems and make it difficult for him to score one-on-one?

Zo. Artis. Lanier. Yao. M Gasol. Ben Wallace. Mutombo.

That is 7 of the 11 opponent teams right there. So if you take away Dwight's one-on-one scoring, how much more valuable is he than say someone like a Mutombo or a Ben Wallace?

That question bothered me.

Haha, I generally appreciate the thought behind the question but come on. Just looking at, say, the 2010 Celtics series, Dwight scored 13, 30, 7, 32, 21, 28. So Perkins punked him compared to his regular season stats. But Ben Wallace never averaged double digits. Mutombo wasn't close to those stats. I do agree that there's so much DPOY talent in this league that Dwight would find it pretty annoying which is part of my question, but let's not put him at Ben Wallace levels!
2023 Historical Draft: Toronto Raptors

Point Guard: Anfernee Hardaway, Fat Lever, Terrell Brandon
Shooting Guard: Paul Westphal, Paul Pressey
Small Forward: Marques Johnson, Danny Granger
Power Forward: Jermaine O'Neal, Bobby Jones, Kiki Vandeweghe
Center: Marc Gasol, Serge Ibaka

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #95 on: August 16, 2023, 06:42:40 PM »

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The part that worried me about Dwight and talked me out of considering him with a first round pick was "how does he matchup with the other centers in this league?". Not the centers of his era but these centers.

I think of how Kendrick Perkins was able to do well against him defensively. To hold him down one-on-one in the post. Dwight still did Perk in the PnR and in transition but he struggled to create his own offense against Perk.

So I am looking at these guys in this league, how many of the centers could cause Dwight problems and make it difficult for him to score one-on-one?

Zo. Artis. Lanier. Yao. M Gasol. Ben Wallace. Mutombo.

That is 7 of the 11 opponent teams right there. So if you take away Dwight's one-on-one scoring, how much more valuable is he than say someone like a Mutombo or a Ben Wallace?

That question bothered me.

Haha, I generally appreciate the thought behind the question but come on. Just looking at, say, the 2010 Celtics series, Dwight scored 13, 30, 7, 32, 21, 28. So Perkins punked him compared to his regular season stats. But Ben Wallace never averaged double digits. Mutombo wasn't close to those stats. I do agree that there's so much DPOY talent in this league that Dwight would find it pretty annoying which is part of my question, but let's not put him at Ben Wallace levels!

And in 2009, Dwight averaged 16.4ppg against Perk in the ECSF. He had three 12pt games, a 16pt and 17pt games and two 23pt nights. A 56% TS%. 

This is in an offense where everything revolves around him. Where he has a large amount of opportunities.

If that is all you can get out of him in an offense where everything revolves around him, what do you get in an offense where things no longer revolve around him?

So if Dwight can be contained by Perk and looks vulnerable to being contained similarly but many other centers in this league, how does Dwight rate as a as #1 scoring option?

Or is he more of a 4th or even 5th option?

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #96 on: August 16, 2023, 07:01:03 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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My recap in digestible pieces:

Part 1 - Your 2023-24 Chicago Bulls! (ChiBulls)


Rotation:

PG: Deron Williams 07-08 / M.R. Richardson 80-81 / J. Wall 16-17
SG: David Thompson 77-78 / Hersey Hawkins 96-97
SF: Tracy McGrady 02-03 / Tayshaun Prince 06-07
PF: Larry Nance Sr 91-92 / Blake Griffin 13-14
C: Bob Lanier 76-77 / Brad Daugherty 92-93 / M. Camby 06-07

PG: DWILL, 08 (#12 MVP, #7 OWS, #12 WS/VORP)
SG: THOMPSON, 78 (#3 MVP, #1 WS/OWS, #2 VORP)
SF: T-MAC, 03 (#4 MVP, #1 VORP/PER/OWS/WSp48)
PF: NANCE, 92 (#10 VORP, #11 WS/BPM)
C: LANIER, 77 (#4 MVP, #2 PER, #5 VORP, #7 OWS)

Bench:
M. Ray Richardson (#17 MVP), John Wall (#7 MVP)
Hersey Hawkins, Tayshaun Prince 
Blake Griffin (#3 MVP)
Brad Daugherty (#10 MVP), Marcus Camby (DPOY)

Philosophies & Highlights:

1) Unstoppable Wing Duo

Simply put, Tracy McGrady and David Thompson are the closest thing to Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant in this league, and they are both on the same team.

Relative to the other wing pairings in the league, this is the most dominant wing pairing of all-time behind only MJ and Pippen, 6x champions. They are the offensive focal point.

Both are 3-level scorers, athletic freaks, and elite outside shooters. They combine for 60 ppg on a combined 57% True Shooting %, with Assist rates of 30% and 19%. Here they have tons of support from other starters and the bench, and they can focus a little less on scoring and a little more on playmaking (see point below).


When they don’t have the ball they will always be in motion. They will also play off each other on the ball and leverage teammates’ scoring in the post, mid-range and from outside. The attention that other shooters and bigs draw allow them to work against a single defender far more often than either guy experienced in his era.

2) Wing-Focused Egalitarian Offense (Ball/Man Movement)

Everyone on this team is unselfish and can pass:

Deron Williams: 43.6% assist rate / 23.1% usage
Thompson: 19.3% / 26.8%
TMac: 30% / 35.2%
Nance: 12% / 19%
Lanier: 12.9% / 26%

MRR: 27.5% / 20%
Hawkins: 14.6% / 17.5%
Tayshaun: 12.9% / 18.9%
Blake: 19.2% / 29%
Daugherty: 17.3% / 21.1%
Wall: 46.9% / 30.6%
Camby: 14.1% / 15.9%

The starters TS%’s are 59.5%, 57.8%, 56.4%, 58.6%, 57.4% from 1-5 on extremely high volume.


The offense will primarily run through the 2 starting wings, one of whom will be in at all times (either with the other, or a low usage defensive marksman), and will run a lot of simple variations of 3 plays:

Pick & Roll with PG / PF (DWill + Nance/Blake) with wings in motion

Lanier/Daugherty operating/facilitating in the high post with perimeter players in motion and the PF screening.

More spaced out, less complex Bulls triangle with T-Mac/Thompson alternating the MJ/Pippen roles.

3) Skilled Size / Frontcourt Depth

I have 4 elite bigs and a 5th who was DPOY. Larry Nance Sr will start with Bob Lanier, with Blake Griffin / Brad Daugherty as super subs. 3 of the 4 were top 10 in MVP voting that year (BD #10, BL #4, BG #3).

There is always a skilled center who shoots from mid-range, scores efficiently inside, rules the defensive boards, and passes well enough to facilitate offense.

There is always a skilled power forward who is mobile, athletic, can score inside and out, and can be leveraged in a devastating pick and roll. I’ve got a top 3 MVP finisher coming off my bench because Nance fits the starters better, which is nuts.

All these bigs are starting caliber guys, so in a league where elite bigs are rare, always having my bigs be top tier, or in special cases a DPOY, is a rarity.

4) Perimeter Sharpshooting

3 starters can shoot 3’s at a high level (38-40% if we assume Thompson shoots like McGrady) and 2 wings off the bench shoot 38.5-40.5% and play great D.

There are also players that will shoot it like Wall (32.7%), Griffin (27%) and Michael Ray (23%) and Lanier, with the latter 2 expected to shoot 3’s today.

In this league without modern players, modern volume from 3 and with no top 75 players, having 5 core players shoot elite from 3 and 3-4 other capable guys is a huge advantage. I can always use a lineup with shooters 1-3 and dominant bigs.


5) Defense off the Bench

When I assembled my starting lineup I was told the offense was incredible, but defense was lacking. So I swapped Blake and 3x all-D Nance, then drafted:



Marcus Camby, 4x all-D and DPOY
Tayshaun Prince, 4x all-D
Michael Ray Richardson, 2x all-D 1st team
Hersey Hawkins, elite 3+D guy
John Wall, 1x all-D (unspectacular but solid defense from a PG)

Being able to mix these guys in with starters or spot start them gives me balance.

6. Versatility / Playing Matchups

I believe all 12 guys on my roster are good enough to play, from T-Mac down to the 12 man. We have the ability to react to how the opponent is playing.

If we need offense, we can throw out DWill-Thompson-TMac-Blake-Lanier

If we need defense, Michael Ray-Wall/Hawkins-Prince-Nance-Camby

We can also blend the two, with shooting, passing, and efficiency as needed. I will try to share more on preferred lineups/combos later.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2023, 12:18:47 AM by smokeablount »
2023 Non-Active / Non-NBA75 Fantasy Draft, ChiBulls:

PG: Deron Williams 07-08 / M.R. Richardson 80-81 / J. Wall 16-17
SG: David Thompson 77-78 / Hersey Hawkins 96-97
SF: Tracy McGrady 02-03 / Tayshaun Prince 06-07
PF: Larry Nance Sr 91-92 / Blake Griffin 13-14
C: Bob Lanier 76-77 / Brad Daugherty 92-93 / M. Camby 06-07

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #97 on: August 16, 2023, 07:09:25 PM »

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Quote
OKC (Celtic Fan Forever):
PG: Chauncey Billups / Baron Davis
SG: Michael Redd / Dan Majerle / Allan Houston
SF: Peja Stojakovic / Gerald Wallace
PF: Shawn Kemp / Antonio McDyess / Toni Kukoc
C: Dwight Howard / Tyson Chandler

I know Redd was changed for Majerle to get more wing defense in since this roster was listed. I wonder if it would work better with Redd staying in and having Peja come out for Majerle instead.

So kinda going back to that question of shot creation and Peja relying on others to create opportunities for him. Redd is better able to create his own shot than Peja. Redd would give the starting lineup more shot-creation. More variety in the offense.

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #98 on: August 16, 2023, 07:20:14 PM »

Offline theswitch

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Quote
OKC (Celtic Fan Forever):
PG: Chauncey Billups / Baron Davis
SG: Michael Redd / Dan Majerle / Allan Houston
SF: Peja Stojakovic / Gerald Wallace
PF: Shawn Kemp / Antonio McDyess / Toni Kukoc
C: Dwight Howard / Tyson Chandler

I know Redd was changed for Majerle to get more wing defense in since this roster was listed. I wonder if it would work better with Redd staying in and having Peja come out for Majerle instead.

So kinda going back to that question of shot creation and Peja relying on others to create opportunities for him. Redd is better able to create his own shot than Peja. Redd would give the starting lineup more shot-creation. More variety in the offense.

It's fun to look at some of these stats to see if they line up with how you remember these players from 20 years ago. In the chosen season (and in the seasons around it), Redd was assisted 59% of the time. 85% of the time from 3, but less than 50% of the time when inside the line which was 73% of the time. Versus Peja was assisted 89% of the time from 3 but 78% of the time when near the basket and 60%-ish from mid-range. It speaks to the ball movement of those Kings teams and the comparative creation of Redd to be able to get himself to the basket when unassisted.
2023 Historical Draft: Toronto Raptors

Point Guard: Anfernee Hardaway, Fat Lever, Terrell Brandon
Shooting Guard: Paul Westphal, Paul Pressey
Small Forward: Marques Johnson, Danny Granger
Power Forward: Jermaine O'Neal, Bobby Jones, Kiki Vandeweghe
Center: Marc Gasol, Serge Ibaka

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #99 on: August 16, 2023, 07:30:37 PM »

Offline Kernewek

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This thread is fantastic at a glance - might be a few days before I can do it justice and read/reply to the whole thing (probably Monday evening?)
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #100 on: August 16, 2023, 07:46:19 PM »

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Dwight vs Yao

So they played each other 5 times between 2007 and 2009 when Yao's career ended. Yao averaged 24.8ppg and 12.6rpg against Dwight. Dwight averaged 15.8ppg and 10rpg against Yao. The numbers were similar if you include 2006 (2 more games) as well but Dwight was younger then (so less scoring again).

Yao obviously presented a fairly unique challenge for Dwight. At 7-6 and 300lbs, Dwight could not muscle his way through Yao or jump and finish over him. This restricted his shot creation severely. And in turn led to Orlando losing most of those games.

The only other player who can present a similar physical challenge as Yao to Dwight is Artis Gilmore. He was 7-2 280lbs or whatever he was. I would expect Dwight to have similar difficulties scoring against Artis as he had against Yao. Artis does not have as refined a scoring arsenal as Yao did so I don't expect him to destroy Dwight the way Yao did but I would expect Artis to out-score Dwight. He can score easier on Dwight than Dwight can on him.

Mutombo has the height and length but not the strength so he is a bit different. I'd place Mutombo more in line with the next level down of Dwight defenders (the 2nd tier). Lanier, Zo, Ben Wallace. Those guys have the bulk. Ben Wallace is the smallest. He never really faced Dwight until after his own prime was over.

M Gasol actually might be the next closest to Artis. A big bodied 7-1 guy at 270lbs or whatever Gasol was. Gasol was younger just finding his feet in the league when Dwight was peaking. Gasol's rookie year was 2008-09. If we use his 3rd year and look at the matchups between them from 2010-11 to 2012-13, they played 5 times and had similar numbers. 13.2ppg 7.2rpg 4.6apg 1.4bpg for M Gasol. 12.2ppg 8.8rpg 1.0apg 2.0bpg for Dwight. The biggest difference being assists in Gasol's favour.

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #101 on: August 16, 2023, 09:10:58 PM »

Online Moranis

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Dwight vs Yao

So they played each other 5 times between 2007 and 2009 when Yao's career ended. Yao averaged 24.8ppg and 12.6rpg against Dwight. Dwight averaged 15.8ppg and 10rpg against Yao. The numbers were similar if you include 2006 (2 more games) as well but Dwight was younger then (so less scoring again).

Yao obviously presented a fairly unique challenge for Dwight. At 7-6 and 300lbs, Dwight could not muscle his way through Yao or jump and finish over him. This restricted his shot creation severely. And in turn led to Orlando losing most of those games.

The only other player who can present a similar physical challenge as Yao to Dwight is Artis Gilmore. He was 7-2 280lbs or whatever he was. I would expect Dwight to have similar difficulties scoring against Artis as he had against Yao. Artis does not have as refined a scoring arsenal as Yao did so I don't expect him to destroy Dwight the way Yao did but I would expect Artis to out-score Dwight. He can score easier on Dwight than Dwight can on him.

Mutombo has the height and length but not the strength so he is a bit different. I'd place Mutombo more in line with the next level down of Dwight defenders (the 2nd tier). Lanier, Zo, Ben Wallace. Those guys have the bulk. Ben Wallace is the smallest. He never really faced Dwight until after his own prime was over.

M Gasol actually might be the next closest to Artis. A big bodied 7-1 guy at 270lbs or whatever Gasol was. Gasol was younger just finding his feet in the league when Dwight was peaking. Gasol's rookie year was 2008-09. If we use his 3rd year and look at the matchups between them from 2010-11 to 2012-13, they played 5 times and had similar numbers. 13.2ppg 7.2rpg 4.6apg 1.4bpg for M Gasol. 12.2ppg 8.8rpg 1.0apg 2.0bpg for Dwight. The biggest difference being assists in Gasol's favour.
Pau always played Dwight very well.  I looked at the 2009 Finals and while Bynum did play that series, he played just 19 mpg.  Dwight got his boards at 15.2 a game, but only scored 15.4 and was off nearly 10% in his FG% from his season average.  While Pau improved his FG% to 60% and was basically at his season averages for the main stats.  Overall, Pau more than held his own against Dwight. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #102 on: August 16, 2023, 10:39:17 PM »

Online Moranis

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Brooklyn Nets

Name, Year, Key Stats (selected year only)
•   Cheeks 83 - 14.5 p, 3.1 r, 7.9 a, 2.7 s - 1st Team All Defense
•   Petrovic 93 - 22.3 p, 2.7 r, 3.5 a, 1.3 s - 44.9% from 3
•   Dantley 84 - 30.6 p, 5.7 r, 3.9 a - FTr .658 (12 attempts per game), 14.6 WS, 13.0 OWS, .235 WS/48, 5.8 OBPM, 7th MVP voting, 2nd Team All NBA
•   Gasol 10 – 18.3 p, 11.3 r, 3.4 a, 1.7 b - 3rd Team All NBA (38% of time at PF that year so a good one to select)
•   Stoudemire 05 – 26 p, 8.9 r, 1.6 a, 1.6 b, 1.0 s – FTr .595 (9.9 attempts per game), 14.6 WS, 11.3 OWS, .243 WS/48, 4.4 BPM, 4.7 VORP (16% at PF, 84% at C) – 2nd Team All NBA , 9th MVP voting (he even got an all defense team vote)
•   Buse 77 - 8 p, 3.3 r, 8.5 a, 3.5 s - led league in apg and spg
•   Hamilton 06 - 20.1 p, 3.2 r, 3.4 a 45.8% from 3
•   Jackson 04 – 12.9 p, 6.1 r, 2.8 a, 1.1 s – 40% from 3 on 5.1 attempts
•   Bowen 03 – 7.1 p, 2.9 r, 1.4 a – 44.1% from 3, 2nd Team All Defense (though was 1st team several years after that)
•   McGinnis 79 - 22.6 p, 11.4 r, 3.7 a, 1.7 s - .601 FTr (10.1 attempts per game)
•   Roundfield 80 – 16.5 p, 10.3 r, 2.3 a, 1.2 s, 1.7 b – FTr .462, 5th in MVP voting, 2nd Team All NBA, 1st Team All Defense
•   Issel 80 – 23.8 p, 8.8 r, 2.4 a, 1.1 s – FTr .471, 11.5 WS

Starters - Cheeks, Petrovic, Dantley, Gasol, Stoudemire
Bench - Buse, Hamilton, Jackson, Bowen, McGinnis, Roundfield, Issel

Defensive Unit - Cheeks, Buse, Bowen, Roundfield, Gasol
Shooting Unit - Buse, Petrovic, Hamilton, Bowen, Gasol

Overall Philosophy
You will note, several of the players for key stats I've put Free Throw Rate.  There is a reason for that.  This team is designed to punish people offensively.  I intend to use Pau in the high post between AD and Amar'e who will be the primary offensive weapons, except when Drazen gets the open shot.  They are going to put opposing teams in foul trouble early and keep going to the line. And I think the concern of spacing has been overblown as I will describe below.  Most of the starters have great range.  I have excellent defenders on the team, so if a stop is needed, I can get it, but the overall philosophy on defense is to punish on offense and just get the better offensive players on the opposing team off the floor. 

Starters:
I know there is some concern regarding spacing with such a heavy interior game, but Pau was excellent in the high post and developed elite 3 point range later in his career.  I think he and Amar'e will play off each other very well, and Dantley will have all kinds of room starting at the 3 line for him to work.  And while Amar'e never extended his range to 3, in 2005 15.5% of his shots were from 10-16 feet, which he hit at 44.9% and another 16.5% of his shots were 16 feet out to 3, which he hit at 45.9%.  I believe he extends that range out to 3 coming up now and would shoot a couple a game and hit around league average. 

Pau would be even more prolific a 3 ball shooter than Amar'e given how his career ended.  Pau's last 3 full seasons he shot 1.8 3's a game and hit them at 42%.  He would have developed that shot much earlier in the modern era, would have shot a lot more of them, and in my view he would have been more effective at it then his brother.  Pau also had no issue ceding touches to mega scorers and is a plus passer.  He did it his whole career to great success, so I think he is the right fit between Dantley and Amar'e.

Speaking of Dantley, a man referred to as The Teacher in Detroit.  Perhaps the best pure scorer in this league.  Frankly, his 4-season run of averaging 30.5 ppg on just 19.3 FGA puts him in very elite company all time.  Very few could score like AD with that level of efficiency in the entire history of the sport.  I went with 84 because I thought that was his most impressive season.  Took a team of basically nobody to the 2nd round of the playoffs and he was dominate in both playoff series and all season long.  I'm not sure how much he would have extended his range because he was just so good at scoring at the hoop, his TS% was 65.2% in a season he literally took four 3's in.  His FTr of 65.8% that year is incredible (he actually topped that in Detroit one season as well).  Because Dantley could score at will and get to the line at will, he just never had to develop a 3-point shot.  He certainly had the touch to do so though and that is where these things always get tricky.  I believe Dantley would take 1 a game to keep teams honest, but this team is designed around Dantley and Amar'e playing off of Pau and then kicking it out to Petrovic if they can't get a shot off.  And Dantley, like Pau and Amar'e was an excellent passer.  The offense ran through AD, but if the shot wasn't there, he would make the right basketball play and had solid court vision and passing skills.  He averaged 4 apg during that 4 year span I mentioned, along with 6.1 rpg.  He was a very good all-around offensive player and he shined in the biggest moments.  Even the Finals in Detroit they lost to the Lakers, AD upped his season numbers nearly across the board in the Finals.

As for Drazen, I do really think he is a top 5 shooter in the history of the sport.  His shooting stroke was incredible.  He could hit every shot and he would have thrived in the modern NBA.  There isn't a shot he couldn't make and playing next to such interior forces, I think he'd excel.  And his volume was in the upper part of the league for the era.  He might end up with ten 3's a game in this given how many open looks he should get.  He can't be left alone, ever, on the court, which makes it much harder to double AD or Amar'e, which will free them up even more, which continues to tie into my team philosophy of outscoring the opponent and making them work so they are less effective when they are on offense.

I liked the all-around game and toughness of Cheeks.  I chose 83 for Cheeks because I wanted the title team (Pau and Bowen also won the title the year selected).  I liked that aspect of Cheeks.  He played on a team with mega personalities and all-time great players (Moses, Dr. J, Toney, Jones), came to work, did his job, and did it well.  During that playoff run, Cheeks was better in the playoffs than the regular season.  In the Finals, Cheeks was the best defender on the floor, better than Jones, better than Cooper.  He set the tone for the Sixers all playoffs and frankly that whole season.  He set up Moses to dominate.  I love that about Cheeks and that is why I wanted him here.  He works in any system, with any type of player. 

Bench Bigs
McGinnis is one of the few MVP's in the league.  Yes it was the ABA, but he was still the best player in the league one year.  I chose 79, in large part, because he played with Issel (and Thompson), yet he still got his and like AD and Amar'e generated FT's at an incredible rate (.601).  He will be able to come into Amar'e role with ease, while Issel can come in and take Pau's spot without issue, so the offense can function in much the same way.  While I didn't take an Issel year with McGinnis, the fact that they played together and performed well, was a big selling point. I think McGinnis, more than Issel or Roundfield would have developed an outside shot and been a prototypical stretch 4 in the modern game. I added Roundfield in the last round because I wanted a hard-nosed tough defender and you aren't going to find many better than him.  He had 5 All Defensive Teams, excellent rebounder, could score if needed, but wasn't the key part of his game.  And while not as good a passer as the other bigs, he did average about 2.5 apg during his prime seasons.

Bench Guards/Wings
These guys were selected to fill certain roles.  In the case of Buse, I wanted someone that was basically similar to Cheeks, but could shoot.  And while Buse played mostly before the 3 pointer, there is no doubt in my mind he'd be an excellent shooter in the modern game.  He was also the consummate team player and didn't need to score.  That was so pronounced that in the year I took i.e. 77, he had more apg than ppg.  He led the league with 8.5 apg and scored just 8 ppg.  He also led the league in apg at 3.5.  Excellent steal generator and towards the end of his career when the 3 pointer was added to the league in his most prolific season he shot 2.3 and hit them at 38.6%.   

Bowen is in the same vein as Buse.  A guy that is going to defend and shoot.  He did that his whole career and is one of the pioneers of  3 and D.  I like having a defender like that on the bench that can hit the open shot.

I chose a later Jackson season because on the bench I didn't need the explosive young Jackson.  I wanted the Houston Jackson that was bombing 3's and hitting at 40%.  That is the elite skill you need on the bench.  I didn't need the high flying 25.7 ppg pre-injury Jackson for this team.  Sometimes the lesser talented year is the better fit and I think that is the case for Jackson, whose role will be limited on this team.

The main wing sub is of course Rip Hamilton.  I took the year when Rip really took off (first all star game).  Didn't take a lot of 3's at just 1.5 per game, but hit those at 45.8%.  He'd take a lot more in the modern era.  And while that was his career best, he did have another season of 2 attempts and 44% so it wasn't a total outlier either.  He was the leading scorer of those Piston teams (including in the Finals when they won the title).  Rip isn't an exact replica of AD, but I do think he could take on the role with good success while taking less FT's but more 3's. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #103 on: August 16, 2023, 10:44:02 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Wondering if it would be helpful to try and compile the writeups into a Google Doc or something like that. Even just for my own personal use
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: 2023 CS Historic Draft - How's My Team?
« Reply #104 on: August 16, 2023, 11:23:53 PM »

Offline smokeablount

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Wondering if it would be helpful to try and compile the writeups into a Google Doc or something like that. Even just for my own personal use

It might help them get read more thoroughly. But only if you’re up for some extra work. If you’ve already got enough, shouldn’t be any worries.
2023 Non-Active / Non-NBA75 Fantasy Draft, ChiBulls:

PG: Deron Williams 07-08 / M.R. Richardson 80-81 / J. Wall 16-17
SG: David Thompson 77-78 / Hersey Hawkins 96-97
SF: Tracy McGrady 02-03 / Tayshaun Prince 06-07
PF: Larry Nance Sr 91-92 / Blake Griffin 13-14
C: Bob Lanier 76-77 / Brad Daugherty 92-93 / M. Camby 06-07