2023 CS Historic Draft Thread - Results in OP!

[RPGenerate]

I'm incredibly happy that I was able to get Mullin to pair with Moncrief. Two all-time talents with great portability, Mullin being a dominant scorer and Moncrief being an amazing defender. Honestly, it feels like I could go in a number of direction with these next couple of picks.

[RPGenerate]

I wasn't sure how to value all of the huge scorers of the 80s. Their gaudy scoring numbers speak for themselves, but it is important to note that they were aided by very high tempo offenses. Most important, they offer very little past being dominant scorers. In drafts like this, where the talent spread means each player won't dominate the ball like in real life, which makes them inherently less valuable. Past the players already drafted, there are still a few players that I believe have the same issue.

[gouki88]

Is it possible we could start having each player's updated team on the first page?

I was planning on doing this tonight after work (morning for all of you)

[RPGenerate]

Is it possible we could start having each player's updated team on the first page?

I was planning on doing this tonight after work (morning for all of you)

Sweet, thank you.

[Moranis]

I was stumped by what to do with King. He played in just 28 playoff games and the last 8 he wasn't a full time starter (started 5).  I also don't know as confidently as someone like English that he would have developed a plus 3 point shot.  I think a better version of DeRozan is fair and Demar doesn't shoot the 3.  King's value where he was picked is solid (I had him late 1st/early 2nd), I just don't know that he is better than English or a couple other guys yet to be drafted from that era. Even his 33 ppg year, the Knicks were awful and he played just 55 games.  I don't think you can take that year and his other years don't compare all that well to the peak of English, McGrady, Carter, etc. (The grreat Washington year he played just 64 games and was no where near the same player physically).

I would've thought you'd take the year before (1983-1984). That year he was far more efficient -- 57% field goal percentage which is ridiculous -- scoring 26 points on 18 shots compared to chucking up 24 shots a game the big PPG year. That year, he took the Celtics to 7 games in the semi-finals averaging 29 per game on 54.5% shooting. He lost to Larry Bird, Robert Parish, and a handful of interesting names for this draft. That team of course won a championship.

That year feels like a cool combination of team success and individual efficiency rather than chasing the big points per game.

I am sure he will, but he also had 2.6 tpg to just 2.1 apg with a not great 5 rpg.  That creates a real problem for team basketball in my view.  Which is why I had a hard time placing King. Efficient, but ball dominant and doesn't do the little things.

[Who]

I don't think ball dominant is the right concept for guys from the 70s or 80s. Maybe the odd PG but not many. The overdribbling did not really start until the 90s and even then only with PGs. It did not spread to the wings until the 00s when all those guys who grew up watching Magic Johnson, Scottie Pippen and Michael Jordan wanted to handle the ball like a PG.


I see three main negative concepts for offensive problems in the older players / scorers.

(1) I would define them as shot happy typically used against a player who shoots too often and usually at a low percentage.

(2) A black hole player. A guy who rarely passes when given the ball in a scoring position and shoots a lot. Say Kevin McHale.

(3) A third concept is a ball stopper or someone who stagnates the offense. Someone who holds onto the ball for too long. So the offense stops moving. The defense loads up on him. Then he is playing 1-on-5 and he has frozen his teammates out of the game. I am thinking of one guy in particular here who is more guilty of this than anyone else in the 80s.

Chris Bosh was actually a ball stopper when he was asked to be a scorer in Toronto. He was a slow decision maker who often took 4-6 seconds before making his move allowing cutters to pass through and sizing up his defender trying to find a weakness to attack with his jab steps. He wasn't a ball stopper when he was in Miami because he was not a primary scorer. Always better suited to being a complementary scorer.


With Bernard King, I don't think ball dominant, shot happy or ball stopper fit him. A black hole criticism can fit. His FGA to AST ratio is bad. It limits his ability to improve people around him on offense because he doesn't use that defensive attention he attracts to create easier shots for his teammates often enough. A wasted opportunity for him. Same with McHale.

King's contributions are highly individualistic rather than team based. I would say the same for guys like Moses Malone. Some guys look to dominate their individual matchup rather than a more team-based approach.

[gouki88]

https://forum.celticsstrong.com/index.php?topic=108318.0

Team thread is up here, will also put the link in the OP.

[Kernewek]

Hey all - as I'm the final pick this round, and since I'm going to be far away from the internet this evening/unable to check the thread, I presume it's all right if I make my pick on Saturday morning?

[Donoghus]

Hey all - as I'm the final pick this round, and since I'm going to be far away from the internet this evening/unable to check the thread, I presume it's all right if I make my pick on Saturday morning?

Yeah, I don't see any issues with that.

[smokeablount]

Hey all - as I'm the final pick this round, and since I'm going to be far away from the internet this evening/unable to check the thread, I presume it's all right if I make my pick on Saturday morning?

Yeah, I don't see any issues with that.

Don’t see why not. Let’s see what Commissioner SilverGouk says!

[Who]

Okay, I got a Plan for today and the next two rounds (I hope). A Plan A (two options) and a Plan B (two options) for today. I pick 4th so I will definitely get one of those guys.

I got Plan C that I do not need but the dude is one of my favourite players of All-Time and I loved the idea of pairing him next to King or Zo nevermind King & Zo. 

[Celtic Fan Forever]

I have a list of 4 guys- any of whom I’d be happy with drafting at #6. 1 at the absolute top and then 3 I’d feel really good about. After I had my top 3 go as the 3 picks before me last round, I have a feeling I’ll end up sweating this one out until the end 

[wdleehi]

It looks like I may not be here to pick between 4 and 4:15.   Anyone picking after me I can give my list of two to?

[Celtic Fan Forever]

It looks like I may not be here to pick between 4 and 4:15.   Anyone picking after me I can give my list of two to?

Sure, I’ll be around

[theswitch]

I have until 4:15, right? I may be a couple minutes late. Locked in at 3.1, not committed at 3.5. Big day for the Raptors.