Jaylen Brown Supermax

[wdleehi]

Brown is a better player when someone else is in charge of running the offense and allowing Brown to score off of that.


Then why does this team put the ball in his hand to be the playmaker and allow the PGs to be off ball when Tatum is off the floor?   

They need to stop treating Brown as Tatum on offense when Tatum is off the floor.  Brown needs to be able to touch the ball in two dribble and shoot/pass settings. 

[Csfan1984]

Brown is a better player when someone else is in charge of running the offense and allowing Brown to score off of that.


Then why does this team put the ball in his hand to be the playmaker and allow the PGs to be off ball when Tatum is off the floor?   

They need to stop treating Brown as Tatum on offense when Tatum is off the floor.  Brown needs to be able to touch the ball in two dribble and shoot/pass settings.

Brogdon has some good stretches with Brown when Tatum was off the floor. I think a bigger issue is when Tatum and Brown are in together why one just sits in a corner at times. No movement, no helping one another.

[Moranis]

if Brown is as bad as some fans say, how did he average 27ppg on 49% shooting and make the all-nba team?

DeRozan did that 2 seasons, but you didn't see anyone claiming he should be paid like the best player in the sport. LaVine, like DeRozan, also had 50% shooting and over 27 ppg 3 seasons ago and he didn't even make an All NBA Team.  There is context to everything and you seem to be missing that.  Brown is a good player, but he isn't 35% of the cap good.  We are already seeing the 2nd apron crunch when he let a rotation player walk because we didn't want to pay him the MLE.  What do you think will happen in 2 seasons when Brown is at 35%, Tatum and Prozingis are around 45% of the cap? Who is being salary dumped at that point.  Might as well just trade White, Brogdon, and Rob now as they all won't be on the team in 2 years with their 35% cap hit collectively.  Brogdon, in particular, should be moved now.  No reason to let his value erode.

[Vermont Green]

Brown is a better player when someone else is in charge of running the offense and allowing Brown to score off of that.


Then why does this team put the ball in his hand to be the playmaker and allow the PGs to be off ball when Tatum is off the floor?   

They need to stop treating Brown as Tatum on offense when Tatum is off the floor.  Brown needs to be able to touch the ball in two dribble and shoot/pass settings.

Yes, I agree, individual turnovers are not completely independent from how the rest of the team is executing the offense.  Better overall execution by the whole team, and a better scheme, will lead to fewer instances where it is up to 1 player to try and bull in for a bucket, be it Tatum or Brown.  You are going to get some of those possessions but if the scheme is better and the execution is better, the result is fewer of those possessions.

[keevsnick]

if Brown is as bad as some fans say, how did he average 27ppg on 49% shooting and make the all-nba team?

DeRozan did that 2 seasons, but you didn't see anyone claiming he should be paid like the best player in the sport. LaVine, like DeRozan, also had 50% shooting and over 27 ppg 3 seasons ago and he didn't even make an All NBA Team.  There is context to everything and you seem to be missing that.  Brown is a good player, but he isn't 35% of the cap good.  We are already seeing the 2nd apron crunch when he let a rotation player walk because we didn't want to pay him the MLE.  What do you think will happen in 2 seasons when Brown is at 35%, Tatum and Prozingis are around 45% of the cap? Who is being salary dumped at that point.  Might as well just trade White, Brogdon, and Rob now as they all won't be on the team in 2 years with their 35% cap hit collectively.  Brogdon, in particular, should be moved now.  No reason to let his value erode.

Sure, but Demar was 32 when he did it and had literally just sign a contract so it would be VERY weird if we had seen that.

[Roy H.]

Trying to map some of this out with real numbers...

Next year's cap should be $149,623,100.  The second apron should be around $201,073,400, assuming it goes up 10%.

We have $136,761,750 in committed salaries next year for ten players.  This doesn't include Pritchard's qualifying offer.

If JB's salary next year is a straight 35% of the cap, it would be $52,368,085.

Adding that to committed salary, we'd be at $189,129,835 with 11 players under contract.

That would give us $11,943,565 in room to fill out the roster by adding three or four players.

[green_bballers13]

if Brown is as bad as some fans say, how did he average 27ppg on 49% shooting and make the all-nba team?

DeRozan did that 2 seasons, but you didn't see anyone claiming he should be paid like the best player in the sport. LaVine, like DeRozan, also had 50% shooting and over 27 ppg 3 seasons ago and he didn't even make an All NBA Team.  There is context to everything and you seem to be missing that.  Brown is a good player, but he isn't 35% of the cap good.  We are already seeing the 2nd apron crunch when he let a rotation player walk because we didn't want to pay him the MLE.  What do you think will happen in 2 seasons when Brown is at 35%, Tatum and Prozingis are around 45% of the cap? Who is being salary dumped at that point.  Might as well just trade White, Brogdon, and Rob now as they all won't be on the team in 2 years with their 35% cap hit collectively.  Brogdon, in particular, should be moved now.  No reason to let his value erode.

Derozan was one of the main reasons that the Bulls won 46 games that year. The Celtics are ten games better than that team. You're comparing him to a player that had a great year in his 30's on a team that was the 6th best team in the Eastern Conference. You're right- context does matter.

Also, they let Grant Williams go because they didn't want him on the team anymore. As others have said, it was addition by subtraction. I honestly am not sure if they would have signed Grant at $5m per year.

Furthermore, I'm glad that Jaylen has moved from a "fine" player to a "good" player in less than 36 hours. He must have been working on his dribbling and basketball IQ (whatever casual fans think that is).

[green_bballers13]

Trying to map some of this out with real numbers...

Next year's cap should be $149,623,100.  The second apron should be around $201,073,400, assuming it goes up 10%.

We have $136,761,750 in committed salaries next year for ten players.  This doesn't include Pritchard's qualifying offer.

If JB's salary next year is a straight 35% of the cap, it would be $52,368,085.

Adding that to committed salary, we'd be at $189,129,835 with 11 players under contract.

That would give us $11,943,565 in room to fill out the roster by adding three or four players.

I've made this point a couple of times, but no one seems to bite on it.

Why do we care about players 12-15 on the bench? They shouldn't impact winning in the regular season, and they definitely won't impact winning in the playoffs. What team is relying on their 3rd team players to win?

If we have devastating injuries this regular season, we should have time to make a move before the trade deadline.

[cman88]

if Brown is as bad as some fans say, how did he average 27ppg on 49% shooting and make the all-nba team?

DeRozan did that 2 seasons, but you didn't see anyone claiming he should be paid like the best player in the sport. LaVine, like DeRozan, also had 50% shooting and over 27 ppg 3 seasons ago and he didn't even make an All NBA Team.  There is context to everything and you seem to be missing that.  Brown is a good player, but he isn't 35% of the cap good.  We are already seeing the 2nd apron crunch when he let a rotation player walk because we didn't want to pay him the MLE.  What do you think will happen in 2 seasons when Brown is at 35%, Tatum and Prozingis are around 45% of the cap? Who is being salary dumped at that point.  Might as well just trade White, Brogdon, and Rob now as they all won't be on the team in 2 years with their 35% cap hit collectively.  Brogdon, in particular, should be moved now.  No reason to let his value erode.

So you agree, its not about what makes the team more likely to win a championship in the next 3 years, you are worried about what happens after all their contracts are up.

if the team doesn't win a chip in the next 2-3 years Brown will probably be traded anyway or KP or both. Maybe Tatum requests a trade because the team hasn't won anything and went backwards after getting rid of Brown.

So why ruin our chances of winning next year? If anything this is an argument of why we should go ALL IN the next couple years. because its our best chance of winning and keeping Tatum and/or brown

[Roy H.]

Trying to map some of this out with real numbers...

Next year's cap should be $149,623,100.  The second apron should be around $201,073,400, assuming it goes up 10%.

We have $136,761,750 in committed salaries next year for ten players.  This doesn't include Pritchard's qualifying offer.

If JB's salary next year is a straight 35% of the cap, it would be $52,368,085.

Adding that to committed salary, we'd be at $189,129,835 with 11 players under contract.

That would give us $11,943,565 in room to fill out the roster by adding three or four players.

I've made this point a couple of times, but no one seems to bite on it.

Why do we care about players 12-15 on the bench? They shouldn't impact winning in the regular season, and they definitely won't impact winning in the playoffs. What team is relying on their 3rd team players to win?

If we have devastating injuries this regular season, we should have time to make a move before the trade deadline.

I care about players 12 through 15, in that they're part of the roster and should be filled with the best quality player or prospect possible.

But, all of those guys are likely to either be on rookie contracts or vet minimums.

[green_bballers13]

Trying to map some of this out with real numbers...

Next year's cap should be $149,623,100.  The second apron should be around $201,073,400, assuming it goes up 10%.

We have $136,761,750 in committed salaries next year for ten players.  This doesn't include Pritchard's qualifying offer.

If JB's salary next year is a straight 35% of the cap, it would be $52,368,085.

Adding that to committed salary, we'd be at $189,129,835 with 11 players under contract.

That would give us $11,943,565 in room to fill out the roster by adding three or four players.

I've made this point a couple of times, but no one seems to bite on it.

Why do we care about players 12-15 on the bench? They shouldn't impact winning in the regular season, and they definitely won't impact winning in the playoffs. What team is relying on their 3rd team players to win?

If we have devastating injuries this regular season, we should have time to make a move before the trade deadline.

I care about players 12 through 15, in that they're part of the roster and should be filled with the best quality player or prospect possible.

But, all of those guys are likely to either be on rookie contracts or vet minimums.

I get that you care about the guys 12-15. I just don't know why.

I'm not seeing evidence of those guys playing 25+ minutes a game, averaging 10+ points with 7 rebounds and 5 assists. Sure, it might happen once in a while, but we probably aren't calling them the 14th best player. They're probably the 7th or 8th best player and considered a role player.

The 1986 Celtics (many here think this was the greatest collection of talent, at least for big men) played 8 guys more than 10 minutes during the regular season. 8 guys played more than 6 minutes a game in the playoffs. Rick Carlisle and Sly Williams averaged just under 10 minutes a game, though Sly only played in 6 regular season games. The remaining players were: David Thirdkill, Sam Vincent, and Greg Kite (who averaged 7 minutes and 2pts per game). They had 13 guys on their roster and 3 rode the pine.

Too long ago? This year's Nuggets played 8 players more than 4 minutes a game in the playoffs.

Where are these deep teams with 12-15 solid players, and why is that suddenly a priority?

[Roy H.]

Trying to map some of this out with real numbers...

Next year's cap should be $149,623,100.  The second apron should be around $201,073,400, assuming it goes up 10%.

We have $136,761,750 in committed salaries next year for ten players.  This doesn't include Pritchard's qualifying offer.

If JB's salary next year is a straight 35% of the cap, it would be $52,368,085.

Adding that to committed salary, we'd be at $189,129,835 with 11 players under contract.

That would give us $11,943,565 in room to fill out the roster by adding three or four players.

I've made this point a couple of times, but no one seems to bite on it.

Why do we care about players 12-15 on the bench? They shouldn't impact winning in the regular season, and they definitely won't impact winning in the playoffs. What team is relying on their 3rd team players to win?

If we have devastating injuries this regular season, we should have time to make a move before the trade deadline.

I care about players 12 through 15, in that they're part of the roster and should be filled with the best quality player or prospect possible.

But, all of those guys are likely to either be on rookie contracts or vet minimums.

I get that you care about the guys 12-15. I just don't know why.

I'm not seeing evidence of those guys playing 25+ minutes a game, averaging 10+ points with 7 rebounds and 5 assists. Sure, it might happen once in a while, but we probably aren't calling them the 14th best player. They're probably the 7th or 8th best player and considered a role player.

The 1986 Celtics (many here think this was the greatest collection of talent, at least for big men) played 8 guys more than 10 minutes during the regular season. 8 guys played more than 6 minutes a game in the playoffs. Rick Carlisle and Sly Williams averaged just under 10 minutes a game, though Sly only played in 6 regular season games. The remaining players were: David Thirdkill, Sam Vincent, and Greg Kite (who averaged 7 minutes and 2pts per game). They had 13 guys on their roster and 3 rode the pine.

Too long ago? This year's Nuggets played 8 players more than 4 minutes a game in the playoffs.

Where are these deep teams with 12-15 solid players, and why is that suddenly a priority?

The Heat relied on their 11th and 12th player in the playoffs.  Their 13th guy (Jovic) seems like a solid enough prospect, and their 15th guy was essentially a player-coach.  They also kept Orlando Robinson on a two-way, who seems like he may see NBA minutes.  Only Omer Yurtseven seemed like pure roster filler. 

Sure, they're the gold standard, but we should strive to be like the Heat.  A team doesn't need to play 12+ players in playoff games, but it should have 12+ players who can play if called upon without seriously harming the team.

Also, as an aside...  what bench players are currently giving 10 points / 7 rebounds / 5 assists?

[johnnygreen]

My sauces are telling me that Jaylen will sign sometime next week. He tried to sign the contract on Friday but dropped the pen 8 times. So this week, he'll be running signing drills in hopes of not dropping the pen when he sits with ownership again.

[Vermont Green]

The Heat relied on their 11th and 12th player in the playoffs.  Their 13th guy (Jovic) seems like a solid enough prospect, and their 15th guy was essentially a player-coach.  They also kept Orlando Robinson on a two-way, who seems like he may see NBA minutes.  Only Omer Yurtseven seemed like pure roster filler. 

Sure, they're the gold standard, but we should strive to be like the Heat.  A team doesn't need to play 12+ players in playoff games, but it should have 12+ players who can play if called upon without seriously harming the team.

Also, as an aside...  what bench players are currently giving 10 points / 7 rebounds / 5 assists?

I don't think that is terribly realistic, even under the old CBA rules, far less so now.  It is really not possible to pay for top end players and also pay to be 12+ deep.  That said, I think we have guys 8 to 11 who can play, not all as well as the top 7 but our top 7 is really good.  Of course there is a drop off.  And of course we have to pay top dollar for our top players.  Our 8-11 is:

Pritchard
Hauser
Brissett
Kornet

We could trade someone like Brown (#2) and then get better players for #8 - #11 but that doesn't make the team better.  I actually like how we stack up right now with only one exception.  I think we could benefit from one vet who could slot maybe 8-10, a vet min or a TPE trade.  But I don't see how you can expect the 10th or 12th guy to step in and play as well as Brogdon or Horford (for example), much less a starter, without a significant drop off.

[Roy H.]

The Heat relied on their 11th and 12th player in the playoffs.  Their 13th guy (Jovic) seems like a solid enough prospect, and their 15th guy was essentially a player-coach.  They also kept Orlando Robinson on a two-way, who seems like he may see NBA minutes.  Only Omer Yurtseven seemed like pure roster filler. 

Sure, they're the gold standard, but we should strive to be like the Heat.  A team doesn't need to play 12+ players in playoff games, but it should have 12+ players who can play if called upon without seriously harming the team.

Also, as an aside...  what bench players are currently giving 10 points / 7 rebounds / 5 assists?

I don't think that is terribly realistic, even under the old CBA rules, far less so now.  It is really not possible to pay for top end players and also pay to be 12+ deep.  That said, I think we have guys 8 to 11 who can play, not all as well as the top 7 but our top 7 is really good.  Of course there is a drop off.  And of course we have to pay top dollar for our top players.  Our 8-11 is:

Pritchard
Hauser
Brissett
Kornet

We could trade someone like Brown (#2) and then get better players for #8 - #11 but that doesn't make the team better.  I actually like how we stack up right now with only one exception.  I think we could benefit from one vet who could slot maybe 8-10, a vet min or a TPE trade.  But I don't see how you can expect the 10th or 12th guy to step in and play as well as Brogdon or Horford (for example), much less a starter, without a significant drop off.

I'm not saying that the 12th man has to be as good as the 7th man.  They just have to be able to play some minutes without absolutely embarrassing themselves and the team.  They will obviously be below average, but not G-league level.