Is Smart/KP trade good….

[hpantazo]

Even as a huge Smart fan, I think this is an excellent, critical trade for the Celtics. We very much needed a replacement for Horford, and Porzingis is it. He's also younger, more skillful, and longer than Horford and finally gives us a strong post presence who can also shoot the three and pass well. Looking ahead at where the league is quickly heading with guys like Jokic, Embiid, and even Wembanyama now on the horizon, we needed a guy like Porzingis with the combination of height and skill to go up against these guys. It really hurts losing Smart, but this was a huge, critical need we filled if we want to legitimately contend.

[liam]

Smart was the de facto leader of this team. As Smart went so went the Celtics. Smart is a wildly inconsistent player and the team he lead was wildly inconsistent. Smart liked to make things difficult and then come up with a big play and save the day. We would dig a hole and play hero ball to get out of it.  I would much rather have a steady guy like White leading this team and that was never going to happen with Smart here. Smart would come up with many highlight plays but a steady hand is sometimes what is needed. Smart ran on emotion and that can be a good thing but emotions run hot and cold. Watching the steadiness of the Nuggets in the finals was a thing of beauty. The Heat could not rattle them. They just kept playing their game. I'm hoping that this fresh start can produce a more steady and balanced team and banner 18.

[Ed Monix]

I don’t know if this is a zag take, but I am not a fan of this trade.

Kristaps Porzingis has a bunch of health issues (obviously) and he’s going to want a considerable amount of money long term. Ainge never gave out large deals to often injured players and IMO he was correct in doing so.

Although Porzingis is a decent rim protector, he isn’t a great defender. What made the Celtics a contender was their ability to switch one to five, that has now gone.

Porzingis has not only had a long history of injuries but ego issues too. He obviously forced his way out of New York very early because of his ego & had issues with Doncic in Dallas. Mazzulla has to be one of the least vocal coaches in the NBA, does anyone believe that he can placate Porzingis if he’s upset?

Porzingis has a terrible match-up history against Embiid, and in their last contest, he finished with 26.7 FG%, 0 3P%, 50 FT%. The Celtics biggest advantage against their biggest rivals was the ability to speed up the game, with Porzingis that’s gone.

Porzingis is an average to below average passer. He’s replacing Smart, who was the teams best playmaker, on a team that already has issues with their passing.

I was not adverse to moving Smart, I’m just not sure this was the correct move.

[Neurotic Guy]

I don’t know if this is a zag take, but I am not a fan of this trade.

Kristaps Porzingis has a bunch of health issues (obviously) and he’s going to want a considerable amount of money long term. Ainge never gave out large deals to often injured players and IMO he was correct in doing so.

Although Porzingis is a decent rim protector, he isn’t a great defender. What made the Celtics a contender was their ability to switch one to five, that has now gone.

Porzingis has not only had a long history of injuries but ego issues too. He obviously forced his way out of New York very early because of his ego & had issues with Doncic in Dallas. Mazzulla has to be one of the least vocal coaches in the NBA, does anyone believe that he can placate Porzingis if he’s upset?

Porzingis has a terrible match-up history against Embiid, and in their last contest, he finished with 26.7 FG%, 0 3P%, 50 FT%. The Celtics biggest advantage against their biggest rivals was the ability to speed up the game, with Porzingis that’s gone.

Porzingis is an average to below average passer. He’s replacing Smart, who was the teams best playmaker, on a team that already has issues with their passing.

I was not adverse to moving Smart, I’m just not sure this was the correct move.

Assuming you’d agree that balancing the roster meant turning a guard into a big, what other reasonably gettable big would have checked more boxes?  I should add, without giving up JB.

[RJ87]

Porzingis has not only had a long history of injuries but ego issues too. He obviously forced his way out of New York very early because of his ego & had issues with Doncic in Dallas. Mazzulla has to be one of the least vocal coaches in the NBA, does anyone believe that he can placate Porzingis if he’s upset.

I've seen this mentioned a few times. A thing I'd like to point out is that he had to opt into his deal to facilitate this trade. He chose to come here knowing he's not going to be the #1 or #2 option. And he also had no issues taking a back seat to Beal and Kuzma last year - both took more shots. He didn't complain at all. It was rumored he was going to opt in and extend with them until they decided to trade Beal.

As far as his time on the Mavs, his issue was with the way the team used him and he wasn't wrong. We just watched the same thing happen there again with Christian Wood. They traded a 1st for Wood only to let him walk a year later because they couldn't properly incorporate his offense alongside Luka.

[BASS_THUMPER]

Kp is jus a pawn on a chess board...dont get use to him



*merlot and pinky up*

[Ed Monix]

I don’t know if this is a zag take, but I am not a fan of this trade.

Kristaps Porzingis has a bunch of health issues (obviously) and he’s going to want a considerable amount of money long term. Ainge never gave out large deals to often injured players and IMO he was correct in doing so.

Although Porzingis is a decent rim protector, he isn’t a great defender. What made the Celtics a contender was their ability to switch one to five, that has now gone.

Porzingis has not only had a long history of injuries but ego issues too. He obviously forced his way out of New York very early because of his ego & had issues with Doncic in Dallas. Mazzulla has to be one of the least vocal coaches in the NBA, does anyone believe that he can placate Porzingis if he’s upset?

Porzingis has a terrible match-up history against Embiid, and in their last contest, he finished with 26.7 FG%, 0 3P%, 50 FT%. The Celtics biggest advantage against their biggest rivals was the ability to speed up the game, with Porzingis that’s gone.

Porzingis is an average to below average passer. He’s replacing Smart, who was the teams best playmaker, on a team that already has issues with their passing.

I was not adverse to moving Smart, I’m just not sure this was the correct move.

Assuming you’d agree that balancing the roster meant turning a guard into a big, what other reasonably gettable big would have checked more boxes?  I should add, without giving up JB.

It’s hard to say because none of us has knowledge who’s gettable, but IMO, it should have been Wendell Carter Jr.

Carter Jr, isn’t a great long term fit next to Banchero. The Magic already have Wagner & Isaac in the front court and just drafted Jett Howard. For the right price, Carter Jr should have been attainable.

When you look at the history of considerable NBA trades, making a change for the sake of making a change, rarely works out well.

[Ed Monix]

Porzingis has not only had a long history of injuries but ego issues too. He obviously forced his way out of New York very early because of his ego & had issues with Doncic in Dallas. Mazzulla has to be one of the least vocal coaches in the NBA, does anyone believe that he can placate Porzingis if he’s upset.

I've seen this mentioned a few times. A thing I'd like to point out is that he had to opt into his deal to facilitate this trade. He chose to come here knowing he's not going to be the #1 or #2 option. And he also had no issues taking a back seat to Beal and Kuzma last year - both took more shots. He didn't complain at all. It was rumored he was going to opt in and extend with them until they decided to trade Beal.

As far as his time on the Mavs, his issue was with the way the team used him and he wasn't wrong. We just watched the same thing happen there again with Christian Wood. They traded a 1st for Wood only to let him walk a year later because they couldn't properly incorporate his offense alongside Luka.

Last season Porzingis had one of his highest usage percentage of his career, 27.3 percent. Horford in comparison was 12%.

Christian Wood couldn’t stay on the floor because he can’t defend & the Mavericks didn’t have a centre who could off-set his defensive shortcomings.

[vjcsmoke]

Kp is jus a pawn on a chess board...dont get use to him



*merlot and pinky up*

Porzingis might be a chess piece, but he's more like a rook than a pawn.  He's actually pretty powerful and helps change how we play the game when he's on the floor.

[vjcsmoke]

Porzingis has not only had a long history of injuries but ego issues too. He obviously forced his way out of New York very early because of his ego & had issues with Doncic in Dallas. Mazzulla has to be one of the least vocal coaches in the NBA, does anyone believe that he can placate Porzingis if he’s upset.

I've seen this mentioned a few times. A thing I'd like to point out is that he had to opt into his deal to facilitate this trade. He chose to come here knowing he's not going to be the #1 or #2 option. And he also had no issues taking a back seat to Beal and Kuzma last year - both took more shots. He didn't complain at all. It was rumored he was going to opt in and extend with them until they decided to trade Beal.

As far as his time on the Mavs, his issue was with the way the team used him and he wasn't wrong. We just watched the same thing happen there again with Christian Wood. They traded a 1st for Wood only to let him walk a year later because they couldn't properly incorporate his offense alongside Luka.

Last season Porzingis had one of his highest usage percentage of his career, 27.3 percent. Horford in comparison was 12%.

27.3% usage is reasonable because he's actually very good at converting his chances.  38% from 3, 49% FG, and 85% FT.  Most importantly he posted an efficient 56.5% EFG despite this high usage rate.  Compare that Jaylen Brown's 55% EFG and Jayson Tatum's 53.9% EFG.

Kristaps Porzingis is a legitimate #3 scoring option and might even overtake Jaylen Brown or Tatum on certain nights when one of our other two stars might be having a cold shooting night.

[vjcsmoke]

It’s hard to say because none of us has knowledge who’s gettable, but IMO, it should have been Wendell Carter Jr.

Carter Jr, isn’t a great long term fit next to Banchero. The Magic already have Wagner & Isaac in the front court and just drafted Jett Howard. For the right price, Carter Jr should have been attainable.

When you look at the history of considerable NBA trades, making a change for the sake of making a change, rarely works out well.

Statistically there's no world where Wendell Carter Jr. is a better option than Kristaps Porzingis.  I trust that Brad Stevens did his homework before making this trade to shake up the  Celtics roster.  But it became pretty clear after we lost to the Heat that "running it back" with the same roster is NOT gonna be good enough.

Wendell Carter                                                                                        Season   Age   Tm   Lg   Pos   G   GS   MP   FG   FGA   FG%   3P   3PA   3P%   2P   2PA   2P%   eFG%   FT   FTA   FT%   ORB   DRB   TRB   AST   STL   BLK   TOV   PF   PTS 2020-21   21   ORL   NBA   C   22   19   26.5   4.6   9.3   0.493   0.3   1.3   0.241   4.3   8   0.534   0.51   2.2   3.1   0.721   2.8   6   8.8   1.6   0.8   0.8   1.3   2.3   11.7 2021-22   22   ORL   NBA   PF   62   61   29.9   5.8   11   0.525   1.1   3.5   0.327   4.7   7.6   0.615   0.576   2.3   3.3   0.691   2.2   8.2   10.5   2.8   0.6   0.7   1.9   2.7   15 2022-23   23   ORL   NBA   C   57   54   29.6   5.6   10.8   0.525   1.4   3.9   0.356   4.2   6.8   0.624   0.591   2.5   3.4   0.738   2.1   6.6   8.7   2.3   0.5   0.6   1.9   2.8   15.2 Kristaps Porzingis                                                                                        Season   Age   Tm   Lg   Pos   G   GS   MP   FG   FGA   FG%   3P   3PA   3P%   2P   2PA   2P%   eFG%   FT   FTA   FT%   ORB   DRB   TRB   AST   STL   BLK   TOV   PF   PTS 2021-22   26   DAL   NBA   PF   34   34   29.5   6.7   14.9   0.451   1.4   5.1   0.283   5.3   9.9   0.537   0.499   4.3   5   0.865   1.9   5.8   7.7   2   0.7   1.7   1.6   2.6   19.2 2021-22   26   WAS   NBA   PF   17   17   28.2   7.2   15.2   0.475   1.7   4.6   0.367   5.5   10.6   0.522   0.531   5.9   6.8   0.871   2.2   6.6   8.8   2.9   0.7   1.5   1.6   2.9   22.1 2022-23   27   WAS   NBA   C   65   65   32.6   7.8   15.7   0.498   2.1   5.5   0.385   5.7   10.2   0.559   0.565   5.4   6.4   0.851   1.8   6.6   8.4   2.7   0.9   1.5   2.1   3   23.2

[Ed Monix]

Porzingis has not only had a long history of injuries but ego issues too. He obviously forced his way out of New York very early because of his ego & had issues with Doncic in Dallas. Mazzulla has to be one of the least vocal coaches in the NBA, does anyone believe that he can placate Porzingis if he’s upset.

I've seen this mentioned a few times. A thing I'd like to point out is that he had to opt into his deal to facilitate this trade. He chose to come here knowing he's not going to be the #1 or #2 option. And he also had no issues taking a back seat to Beal and Kuzma last year - both took more shots. He didn't complain at all. It was rumored he was going to opt in and extend with them until they decided to trade Beal.

As far as his time on the Mavs, his issue was with the way the team used him and he wasn't wrong. We just watched the same thing happen there again with Christian Wood. They traded a 1st for Wood only to let him walk a year later because they couldn't properly incorporate his offense alongside Luka.

Last season Porzingis had one of his highest usage percentage of his career, 27.3 percent. Horford in comparison was 12%.

27.3% usage is reasonable because he's actually very good at converting his chances.  38% from 3, 49% FG, and 85% FT.  Most importantly he posted an efficient 56.5% EFG despite this high usage rate.  Compare that Jaylen Brown's 55% EFG and Jayson Tatum's 53.9% EFG.

Kristaps Porzingis is a legitimate #3 scoring option and might even overtake Jaylen Brown or Tatum on certain nights when one of our other two stars might be having a cold shooting night.

Find a successful ‘big three’ with three high usage star guys.

Garnett was a defensive minded role player for Boston, even Ray Allen played mostly off the ball. LeBron James & Wade had Bosh to focus on defending and not needing touches.

Brown is off contract at the end of next season, if Stevens isn’t careful, he’ll walk in 2024.

[RJ87]

Porzingis has not only had a long history of injuries but ego issues too. He obviously forced his way out of New York very early because of his ego & had issues with Doncic in Dallas. Mazzulla has to be one of the least vocal coaches in the NBA, does anyone believe that he can placate Porzingis if he’s upset.

I've seen this mentioned a few times. A thing I'd like to point out is that he had to opt into his deal to facilitate this trade. He chose to come here knowing he's not going to be the #1 or #2 option. And he also had no issues taking a back seat to Beal and Kuzma last year - both took more shots. He didn't complain at all. It was rumored he was going to opt in and extend with them until they decided to trade Beal.

As far as his time on the Mavs, his issue was with the way the team used him and he wasn't wrong. We just watched the same thing happen there again with Christian Wood. They traded a 1st for Wood only to let him walk a year later because they couldn't properly incorporate his offense alongside Luka.

Last season Porzingis had one of his highest usage percentage of his career, 27.3 percent. Horford in comparison was 12%.

And yet that usage rate was still less than Kuzma (27.9) or Beal (29.2).

[Ed Monix]

It’s hard to say because none of us has knowledge who’s gettable, but IMO, it should have been Wendell Carter Jr.

Carter Jr, isn’t a great long term fit next to Banchero. The Magic already have Wagner & Isaac in the front court and just drafted Jett Howard. For the right price, Carter Jr should have been attainable.

When you look at the history of considerable NBA trades, making a change for the sake of making a change, rarely works out well.

Statistically there's no world where Wendell Carter Jr. is a better option than Kristaps Porzingis.  I trust that Brad Stevens did his homework before making this trade to shake up the  Celtics roster.  But it became pretty clear after we lost to the Heat that "running it back" with the same roster is NOT gonna be good enough.

Season   Age   Tm   Lg   Pos   G   GS   MP   FG   FGA   FG%   3P   3PA   3P%   2P   2PA   2P%   eFG%   FT   FTA   FT%   ORB   DRB   TRB   AST   STL   BLK   TOV   PF   PTS
2022-23   23   ORL   NBA   C   57   54   29.6   5.6   10.8   .525   1.4   3.9   .356   4.2   6.8   .624   .591           2.5   3.4   .738   2.1   6.6   8.7   2.3   0.5   0.6   1.9   2.8   15.2

Season   Age   Tm   Lg   Pos   G   GS   MP   FG   FGA   FG%   3P   3PA   3P%   2P   2PA   2P%   eFG%   FT   FTA   FT%   ORB   DRB   TRB   AST   STL   BLK   TOV   PF   PTS
2022-23   27   WAS   NBA   C   65   65   32.6   7.8   15.7   .498   2.1   5.5   .385   5.7   10.2   .559   .565           5.4   6.4   .851   1.8   6.6   8.4   2.7   0.9   1.5   2.1   3.0   23.2

And statistically Porzingis looks better than Draymond Green, but ask them who’d they rather have.

What I am talking about is real world fit. My suggestion of Carter Jr was because he’s cheaper than Porzongis, without ego and is the perfect long term replacement for Horford as a role play.

Under Udoka, our roster was good enough. The Celtics only lost to a veteran Warriors team, essentially because it was their first trip to the Finals. Therefore their weakest link should be Mazzulla and his new ideologies.

[BASS_THUMPER]

for our member Walker Wiggle




*sippin*