Author Topic: Celtics Need an Elite Playmaker  (Read 9923 times)

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Re: Celtics Need an Elite Playmaker
« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2023, 10:27:06 AM »

Online Vermont Green

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I don't believe that having an "elite playmaker" is a perquisite to a title team, if by this you mean a traditional PG type player vs. a "point forward" or "point center".  I get the feeling that this is what is being implied though.  That said, it also isn't a bad thing to have a high level playmaking guard.

The two that have been mentioned that would fit this for the Celtics are Garland and LaMelo.  Both of these are high level players.  I think the idea is to trade Brown for one of these.  These are not the types of players that I would typically want to target, I would still prefer a playmaking big, but either of these are definitely interesting.

Either due to talent or contracts, any trade would have to include more coming to the Celtics than just a 1 for 1 for Brown but it does seem like a potential deal is possible.  LaMelo in particular is not the type of player I would typically target but if they would trade him for Brown with the idea that they then draft Scoot Henderson, I think that is a very interesting possibility.

Re: Celtics Need an Elite Playmaker
« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2023, 10:44:46 AM »

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I don't believe that having an "elite playmaker" is a perquisite to a title team, if by this you mean a traditional PG type player vs. a "point forward" or "point center".  I get the feeling that this is what is being implied though.  That said, it also isn't a bad thing to have a high level playmaking guard.

The two that have been mentioned that would fit this for the Celtics are Garland and LaMelo.  Both of these are high level players.  I think the idea is to trade Brown for one of these.  These are not the types of players that I would typically want to target, I would still prefer a playmaking big, but either of these are definitely interesting.

Either due to talent or contracts, any trade would have to include more coming to the Celtics than just a 1 for 1 for Brown but it does seem like a potential deal is possible.  LaMelo in particular is not the type of player I would typically target but if they would trade him for Brown with the idea that they then draft Scoot Henderson, I think that is a very interesting possibility.

Are there any playmaking bigs available?

Two of the best in Jokic and Bam were just in the Finals. D Sabonis is likely unavailable given SAC just had their best season in 15 years and there is a lot of excitement over there about their future.

Draymond is the next guy although I am not sure he would fit in that well with the Jays (slashers, on ball) vs the Splash Bros (shooters, off ball).

Sengun is one guy that gets mentioned in some of these trade proposals. He would be good. I'd like to try and pry him loose with a non-Jaylen trade. I do not feel he is good enough to sacrifice Jaylen for.

The next level down of playmaking bigs like Olynyk or Vucevic. It is more good passing bigs than great passing bigs. Not that different than what we have with Horford.

Re: Celtics Need an Elite Playmaker
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2023, 11:02:33 AM »

Online Vermont Green

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I don't believe that having an "elite playmaker" is a perquisite to a title team, if by this you mean a traditional PG type player vs. a "point forward" or "point center".  I get the feeling that this is what is being implied though.  That said, it also isn't a bad thing to have a high level playmaking guard.

The two that have been mentioned that would fit this for the Celtics are Garland and LaMelo.  Both of these are high level players.  I think the idea is to trade Brown for one of these.  These are not the types of players that I would typically want to target, I would still prefer a playmaking big, but either of these are definitely interesting.

Either due to talent or contracts, any trade would have to include more coming to the Celtics than just a 1 for 1 for Brown but it does seem like a potential deal is possible.  LaMelo in particular is not the type of player I would typically target but if they would trade him for Brown with the idea that they then draft Scoot Henderson, I think that is a very interesting possibility.

Are there any playmaking bigs available?

Two of the best in Jokic and Bam were just in the Finals. D Sabonis is likely unavailable given SAC just had their best season in 15 years and there is a lot of excitement over there about their future.

Draymond is the next guy although I am not sure he would fit in that well with the Jays (slashers, on ball) vs the Splash Bros (shooters, off ball).

Sengun is one guy that gets mentioned in some of these trade proposals. He would be good. I'd like to try and pry him loose with a non-Jaylen trade. I do not feel he is good enough to sacrifice Jaylen for.

The next level down of playmaking bigs like Olynyk or Vucevic. It is more good passing bigs than great passing bigs. Not that different than what we have with Horford.

Towns has been discussed, I guess that was what I was thinking, but your point it fair.  There are going to be far fewer options to get a playmaking big.  And when I say playmaking big, I am not thinking the player has to be able to bring the ball up the court and make passes like Jokic can do, I just mean a big that can facilitate offense through all aspects, scoring, passing, screening.  Will require some attention from the defense, maybe even double teams.  Tatum is still always going to be the primary playmaker.  This is a question of the secondary playmaker.

The lack of available or gettable playmaking bigs is part of why you start to look at players like Garland and LaMelo.  And to be clear, I think Brown is a very good secondary playmaker.  Maybe not the ideal secondary playmaker to Tatum, but still very good.  A guard, ball-handling type or a big as the secondary playmaker, would diversify our offense some, allow us to apply scoring pressure in different ways.  Give the defense more things to defend against.  But if we are going to swap Brown for this different secondary playmaker, guard or big or whatever, that player has to be really good.

Re: Celtics Need an Elite Playmaker
« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2023, 11:10:59 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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I think at this point I'd trade Brown, RW3, and one of the Smart/DW/Brogdan trio for a big man and PG.

Something like this might be intriguing.

Boston: KAT, Lamelo Ball, Gordan Hayward
Wolves: Brown, RW3
Hornets: Brogdon, Gallinari, k anderson

Charlotte dumps GH and frees up PG spot for scoot, Minnesota moves on from KAT and gains some great talent.  Boston fills biggest holes and runs with

Ball/Smart
DW/PP
JT/GH/hauser
Hortford/GW
KAT/Kornet/Muscala

Alot of versatility and outside shooting on this team.  Might look for a bruiser for deep bench.  Might need a pick or 2 to move around, but frankly feels fairly even the way it is.


I really dislike this.   The Celtics need to get back to their defensive identity.   This team would not have such an identity. 

Re: Celtics Need an Elite Playmaker
« Reply #49 on: June 14, 2023, 11:25:08 AM »

Online Vermont Green

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I think at this point I'd trade Brown, RW3, and one of the Smart/DW/Brogdan trio for a big man and PG.

Something like this might be intriguing.

Boston: KAT, Lamelo Ball, Gordan Hayward
Wolves: Brown, RW3
Hornets: Brogdon, Gallinari, k anderson

Charlotte dumps GH and frees up PG spot for scoot, Minnesota moves on from KAT and gains some great talent.  Boston fills biggest holes and runs with

Ball/Smart
DW/PP
JT/GH/hauser
Hortford/GW
KAT/Kornet/Muscala

Alot of versatility and outside shooting on this team.  Might look for a bruiser for deep bench.  Might need a pick or 2 to move around, but frankly feels fairly even the way it is.

This is really two separate trades.  One is with MIN:

Brown and RWill
for
Towns and Anderson

This isn't too far off.  I would probably offer Gallinari in place of RWill or maybe even Pritchard and Muscala, but I like Towns and I like Anderson.

The CHA deal is:

Brogdon and Gallinari
for
Ball and Hayward

I am not sure CHA does this trade.  They may want to get out of Hayward's contract but it is only for one more season.  Why sell off Ball just to save one season of salary?  I would definitely say yes to this though if CHA would.  I get that we lose some defense by giving up Brown and RWill but I don't think Ball and Towns would be as bad defensively as people seem to be assuming.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2023, 11:43:56 AM by Vermont Green »

Re: Celtics Need an Elite Playmaker
« Reply #50 on: June 14, 2023, 11:40:53 AM »

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I don't believe that having an "elite playmaker" is a perquisite to a title team, if by this you mean a traditional PG type player vs. a "point forward" or "point center".  I get the feeling that this is what is being implied though.  That said, it also isn't a bad thing to have a high level playmaking guard.

The two that have been mentioned that would fit this for the Celtics are Garland and LaMelo.  Both of these are high level players.  I think the idea is to trade Brown for one of these.  These are not the types of players that I would typically want to target, I would still prefer a playmaking big, but either of these are definitely interesting.

Either due to talent or contracts, any trade would have to include more coming to the Celtics than just a 1 for 1 for Brown but it does seem like a potential deal is possible.  LaMelo in particular is not the type of player I would typically target but if they would trade him for Brown with the idea that they then draft Scoot Henderson, I think that is a very interesting possibility.

Are there any playmaking bigs available?

Two of the best in Jokic and Bam were just in the Finals. D Sabonis is likely unavailable given SAC just had their best season in 15 years and there is a lot of excitement over there about their future.

Draymond is the next guy although I am not sure he would fit in that well with the Jays (slashers, on ball) vs the Splash Bros (shooters, off ball).

Sengun is one guy that gets mentioned in some of these trade proposals. He would be good. I'd like to try and pry him loose with a non-Jaylen trade. I do not feel he is good enough to sacrifice Jaylen for.

The next level down of playmaking bigs like Olynyk or Vucevic. It is more good passing bigs than great passing bigs. Not that different than what we have with Horford.

Towns has been discussed, I guess that was what I was thinking, but your point it fair.  There are going to be far fewer options to get a playmaking big.  And when I say playmaking big, I am not thinking the player has to be able to bring the ball up the court and make passes like Jokic can do, I just mean a big that can facilitate offense through all aspects, scoring, passing, screening.  Will require some attention from the defense, maybe even double teams.  Tatum is still always going to be the primary playmaker.  This is a question of the secondary playmaker.

The lack of available or gettable playmaking bigs is part of why you start to look at players like Garland and LaMelo.  And to be clear, I think Brown is a very good secondary playmaker.  Maybe not the ideal secondary playmaker to Tatum, but still very good.  A guard, ball-handling type or a big as the secondary playmaker, would diversify our offense some, allow us to apply scoring pressure in different ways.  Give the defense more things to defend against.  But if we are going to swap Brown for this different secondary playmaker, guard or big or whatever, that player has to be really good.


Oh, Towns! I forgot Towns. I was looking at a stats sheet. Towns must not have mad the cut due to games missed.

Towns would be awesome. I am a fan of bringing Towns here. He was playing great ball until Minny brought in Gobert. Big fan of his game so long as he is not the #1 guy which he would not be here.

Re: Celtics Need an Elite Playmaker
« Reply #51 on: June 14, 2023, 11:46:15 AM »

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I think at this point I'd trade Brown, RW3, and one of the Smart/DW/Brogdan trio for a big man and PG.

Something like this might be intriguing.

Boston: KAT, Lamelo Ball, Gordan Hayward
Wolves: Brown, RW3
Hornets: Brogdon, Gallinari, k anderson

Charlotte dumps GH and frees up PG spot for scoot, Minnesota moves on from KAT and gains some great talent.  Boston fills biggest holes and runs with

Ball/Smart
DW/PP
JT/GH/hauser
Hortford/GW
KAT/Kornet/Muscala

Alot of versatility and outside shooting on this team.  Might look for a bruiser for deep bench.  Might need a pick or 2 to move around, but frankly feels fairly even the way it is.


I really dislike this.   The Celtics need to get back to their defensive identity.   This team would not have such an identity.

I am not tied to a defensive indentity.

Just look at Denver. They are an elite offensive team with a good defense. The Lakers with Kobe and Pau were elite offensive teams with a very good but not great defense. Their offense drove their identity more than their defense did.

I am quite happy to step away from the defensive identity so long as the new offensive identity is good enough / talented enough to justify the change.

Re: Celtics Need an Elite Playmaker
« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2023, 06:01:08 PM »

Offline michigan adam

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I think at this point I'd trade Brown, RW3, and one of the Smart/DW/Brogdan trio for a big man and PG.

Something like this might be intriguing.

Boston: KAT, Lamelo Ball, Gordan Hayward
Wolves: Brown, RW3
Hornets: Brogdon, Gallinari, k anderson

Charlotte dumps GH and frees up PG spot for scoot, Minnesota moves on from KAT and gains some great talent.  Boston fills biggest holes and runs with

Ball/Smart
DW/PP
JT/GH/hauser
Hortford/GW
KAT/Kornet/Muscala

Alot of versatility and outside shooting on this team.  Might look for a bruiser for deep bench.  Might need a pick or 2 to move around, but frankly feels fairly even the way it is.

This is really two separate trades.  One is with MIN:

Brown and RWill
for
Towns and Anderson

This isn't too far off.  I would probably offer Gallinari in place of RWill or maybe even Pritchard and Muscala, but I like Towns and I like Anderson.

The CHA deal is:

Brogdon and Gallinari
for
Ball and Hayward

I am not sure CHA does this trade.  They may want to get out of Hayward's contract but it is only for one more season.  Why sell off Ball just to save one season of salary?  I would definitely say yes to this though if CHA would.  I get that we lose some defense by giving up Brown and RWill but I don't think Ball and Towns would be as bad defensively as people seem to be assuming.

Well your split not only is not what the trade is, but it doesn't work financially.  K Anderson HAS to go to Charlotte in the trade to make the numbers work, and is part of what makes the trade more appealing for Charlotte.  Charlotte is making this trade to move Hayward contract and open a spot for scoot.