Celtics Off-Season News

[footey]

I also wanted to point out this part of the article:

Brown can make 35 percent of the cap as a designated veteran as opposed to just 30 percent for the rookie supermaxes. He’s entering his age-27 season, and there’s no longer the expectation he will significantly improve, so he has to be worth his salary right now.

After signing a below-max deal last time that included some sizable incentives at the time, this new extension will be more complicated than just agreeing on a number. Even if Boston offers the full five-year, $295 million deal, the team will want to build in an incentive structure while Brown’s camp can push for an early termination option (ETO) after Year 3 or a player option in Year 5, as Jayson Tatum received. An ETO would give Brown a chance for another five-year max deal while he’s still in his prime.

It's not clear whether Brown not improving significantly anymore at 27 and being "worth" the salary is Weiss' own general opinion, or something the Celtics are actually concerned about. Then later, he writes about the team wanting an "incentive structure" even though Brown isn't really an unproven commodity at this point. Especially since he's not an injury-prone player, it seems insulting to throw in a lot of incentives.

On a player basis, yes, I agree it's insulting to offer Brown an incentive based contract considering his experience, accomplishments and health. However, I think any team that intends to contend should include team performance based incentives for all players on their roster. Small gains for making the playoffs and for each playoff round of success, and larger gains for the conferee finals and NBA finals, and of course, significant bonuses for NBA titles. You want guys to buy in , sacrifice for the team and give it their all to win, build it into their contracts rather than bonuses for individual accomplishments. If a guy gets traded, he has to renegotiate those incentives with the new team as part of the trade.

The bolded, of course, is completely prohibited in the CBA.

Horford had that in his last contract with Philly which we inherited.

[footey]

Posting this from ESPN Plus, per Bobby Marks this morning:

"Offseason transactions: Kristaps Porzingis (trade), Dalano Banton (free agent), Jordan Walsh (draft) and Oshae Brissett (free agent)

Who to watch: Jaylen Brown, Grant Williams and Damian Lillard

Brown was one of seven players to average 27 points and shoot at least 50% after the All-Star break. He earned All-NBA honors and is eligible to sign a five-year, $288 million supermax extension. The contract would be the richest in NBA history.

Since the NBA instituted the designated veteran extension rule (supermax) in 2017, 11 of the 12 players who met the All-NBA criteria have signed the designated extension. The lone exception was Kawhi Leonard in San Antonio. Under the supermax rules, teams are required to offer an extension for a total of six seasons (including what is left on the player's existing contract) but not mandated to offer a first-year salary starting at 35% of the salary cap. In 2020, Rudy Gobert signed a supermax extension that was $23 million less than the extension of Giannis Antetokounmpo.

Williams, a restricted free agent, sits in a holding pattern as the market with teams that can present an offer sheet has shrunk. Outside of the Spurs, who have $23 million in room, the maximum offer sheet that Williams can sign is four years, $54 million (the $12.4 million non-tax midlevel). If the Celtics matched, it would cost them an additional $40 million in projected tax penalty.

Williams shot 44.5% on corner 3-pointers over the past two seasons, running in the top 10 among all players who attempted at least 200. Williams averaged a career-high 25.9 minutes this past season, but fell out of the rotation in the first two rounds of the playoffs. Lillard's trade request could open the door for Boston to explore trade packages for the All-Star, especially with the void at point guard after trading Marcus Smart to Memphis. The question is whether the Celtics can pry the All-NBA guard out of Portland without giving up Jaylen Brown?

The Celtics can include up to five first-round picks (they owe a top-1 protected pick swap to San Antonio in 2028) in a trade and have the contracts of Malcolm Brogdon, Derrick White and Robert Williams III to use as matching salary for Lillard.

Available exceptions: Veteran minimum and trade ($1.8 million)

Below the $182.5M second apron: $3.5 million

Projected tax penalty: $21.4 million

Players under contract: 13

Two-way players: 0

Extension eligible: Jayson Tatum (not supermax), Brown, White (as of Sept. 30), Brogdon (as of Oct. 1) and Payton Pritchard (rookie)

Free-agent status:

Blake Griffin | Non-Bird

Grant Williams | Restricted | Bird

JD Davison | Restricted | Non-Bird

Mfiondu Kabengele | Non-Bird"

[Vermont Green]

Posting this from ESPN Plus, per Bobby Marks this morning:

"Offseason transactions: Kristaps Porzingis (trade), Dalano Banton (free agent), Jordan Walsh (draft) and Oshae Brissett (free agent)

Who to watch: Jaylen Brown, Grant Williams and Damian Lillard

Brown was one of seven players to average 27 points and shoot at least 50% after the All-Star break. He earned All-NBA honors and is eligible to sign a five-year, $288 million supermax extension. The contract would be the richest in NBA history.

Since the NBA instituted the designated veteran extension rule (supermax) in 2017, 11 of the 12 players who met the All-NBA criteria have signed the designated extension. The lone exception was Kawhi Leonard in San Antonio. Under the supermax rules, teams are required to offer an extension for a total of six seasons (including what is left on the player's existing contract) but not mandated to offer a first-year salary starting at 35% of the salary cap. In 2020, Rudy Gobert signed a supermax extension that was $23 million less than the extension of Giannis Antetokounmpo.

Williams, a restricted free agent, sits in a holding pattern as the market with teams that can present an offer sheet has shrunk. Outside of the Spurs, who have $23 million in room, the maximum offer sheet that Williams can sign is four years, $54 million (the $12.4 million non-tax midlevel). If the Celtics matched, it would cost them an additional $40 million in projected tax penalty.

Williams shot 44.5% on corner 3-pointers over the past two seasons, running in the top 10 among all players who attempted at least 200. Williams averaged a career-high 25.9 minutes this past season, but fell out of the rotation in the first two rounds of the playoffs. Lillard's trade request could open the door for Boston to explore trade packages for the All-Star, especially with the void at point guard after trading Marcus Smart to Memphis. The question is whether the Celtics can pry the All-NBA guard out of Portland without giving up Jaylen Brown?

The Celtics can include up to five first-round picks (they owe a top-1 protected pick swap to San Antonio in 2028) in a trade and have the contracts of Malcolm Brogdon, Derrick White and Robert Williams III to use as matching salary for Lillard.

Available exceptions: Veteran minimum and trade ($1.8 million)

Below the $182.5M second apron: $3.5 million

Projected tax penalty: $21.4 million

Players under contract: 13

Two-way players: 0

Extension eligible: Jayson Tatum (not supermax), Brown, White (as of Sept. 30), Brogdon (as of Oct. 1) and Payton Pritchard (rookie)

Free-agent status:

Blake Griffin | Non-Bird

Grant Williams | Restricted | Bird

JD Davison | Restricted | Non-Bird

Mfiondu Kabengele | Non-Bird

This is all pretty much old news for those who have been following this closely, but a good summary nonetheless.  There really is not that much drama left this off season, Grant or not, sign a few vet min contracts.  But there could be a couple of exceptions.  One of course is if we were to trade for Lillard.  The article is accurate I feel in that one path would be to trade Jaylen Brown and the other path would be to trade Brogdon and White and whatever else.  The "whatever else" could be Rob Williams or could be Grant in an S&T (subject to BYC rules), and/or a bunch of picks.

This got me thinking, are we better off trading Brown or trading both Brogdon and White.   Two trade scenarios I could see:

Brown + RWill + Pritchard (and no picks)
for
Lillard + Sharpe

or

Brogdon + White + Champagnie + Picks
for
Lillard

I feel like it is more realistic to trade Brown, not have to give up picks, and to get Sharpe.  It would be a decision for the here and now but our big 3 would be formidable and we would maintain enough of our depth.  We would need to backfill a big (certainly sign Grant) but I don't see how we could build a team around a big 4.  Our starting 5 would be otherworldly but we would have really no depth.  We would probably have to trade Brogdon for multiple lesser pieces anyway.

So which is better for the Celtics, to have the depth of Brogdon and White or to have Brown?  I don't see it happening, but to me, if we do trade for Lillard, I think sending out Brown is the best for the Celtics, near term and long term.

[Walker Wiggle]

The only way I see the Celtics trading for Lillard is if the negotiations with Brown over his extension sputter, and the team looks to trade him. But does Portland do that deal? Brown would essentially be on an expiring deal, and the Blazers would be hard pressed to sign him once he becomes a FA. They'd probably ask the Celtics for draft picks in addition to Brown, which then starts to become dicey since you'd be taking on a massive contract for a player that's entering his mid-30s. All of this together, and I just don't think it's likely.

[Vermont Green]

The only way I see the Celtics trading for Lillard is if the negotiations with Brown over his extension sputter, and the team looks to trade him. But does Portland do that deal? Brown would essentially be on an expiring deal, and the Blazers would be hard pressed to sign him once he becomes a FA. They'd probably ask the Celtics for draft picks in addition to Brown, which then starts to become dicey since you'd be taking on a massive contract for a player that's entering his mid-30s. All of this together, and I just don't think it's likely.

Brown's contract, willingness to sign would be a factor but I am not sure POR would get a better deal.  They would still be in position to offer the most when Brown became a UFA.  Brown would clearly be "the man" with some good young players around him and Jerami Grant.  It would be a tough decision for POR but I think worth the risk, if the alternative is Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinson and a bunch of picks.

[Who]

The only way I see the Celtics trading for Lillard is if the negotiations with Brown over his extension sputter, and the team looks to trade him. But does Portland do that deal? Brown would essentially be on an expiring deal, and the Blazers would be hard pressed to sign him once he becomes a FA. They'd probably ask the Celtics for draft picks in addition to Brown, which then starts to become dicey since you'd be taking on a massive contract for a player that's entering his mid-30s. All of this together, and I just don't think it's likely.

Brown's contract, willingness to sign would be a factor but I am not sure POR would get a better deal.  They would still be in position to offer the most when Brown became a UFA.  Brown would clearly be "the man" with some good young players around him and Jerami Grant.  It would be a tough decision for POR but I think worth the risk, if the alternative is Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinson and a bunch of picks.

Yeah, I believe it would come down to talks between Jaylen and Portland. They would sound each other out and decide whether Jaylen is interested in staying past his current deal. If Jaylen is willing to stay, it is far and away the best package POR will be offered. If Jaylen is not interested in staying, the deal is dead.

I don't think additional draft compensation will factor in. It'll be about talks between Jaylen and POR. That conversation will have to happen prior to the trade being completed. BOS will give permission for that conversation to happen in order to complete the trade.

[Who]

I like Jaylen on the Blazers

G: Scott Henderson
G: Anfernee Simons, Shaedon Sharpe
F: Jaylen Brown
F: Jerami Grant
C: Josef Nurkic

That is a fun group to build around long term.

By the way, Jaylen and J Grant must be the worst passing high volume scoring forward duo in the entire league. Poor Scoot and A Simons; their lives will be difficult trying to maintain ball movement next to those two. Not an easy environment for a young PG like Scoot.

I don't think it is a playoff team next year though. It is a team that could get to .500 if things break well for them but probably more like 33-36 wins. So Jaylen would have to buy in to the future potential of the team and the opportunity for him to be the face of the franchise there. As Scoot develops, that will be a playoff team. It can become a 50 win team in 2-3 years time.

It would be interesting to see where Jaylen's priorities are. Is winning his top priority? In which case, POR is not a suitable option. Is being the face of the franchise his priority? A chance to have his own team? Because no good team, no winning team, no contender will have him that opportunity. He will have to take a chance on a lesser team in order to get that opportunity.

[keevsnick]

I like Jaylen on the Blazers

G: Scott Henderson
G: Anfernee Simons, Shaedon Sharpe
F: Jaylen Brown
F: Jerami Grant
C: Josef Nurkic

That is a fun group to build around long term.

By the way, Jaylen and J Grant must be the worst passing high volume scoring forward duo in the entire league. Poor Scoot and A Simons; their lives will be difficult trying to maintain ball movement next to those two. Not an easy environment for a young PG like Scoot.

I don't think it is a playoff team next year though. It is a team that could get to .500 if things break well for them but probably more like 33-36 wins. So Jaylen would have to buy in to the future potential of the team and the opportunity for him to be the face of the franchise there. As Scoot develops, that will be a playoff team. It can become a 50 win team in 2-3 years time.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, there is a 0% chance Jaylen is re-signing with that team. POR just doesn't seem like the kind of market that would attract Jaylen, the team will suck for a couple years while Scoot develops (it already sucked with Lillard last year), and once he's traded and the super-max is gone there's not much difference (besides a 5th year) between what his incumbent team can offer and what he can get on the open market.

A team like POR who is in a small market and will stink next year just doesn't have a shot at re-signing him, like if Boston who has been to ECF FIVE TIMES in his seven seasons has to worry then POR has no shot. Brown isn't the kind of guy POR should be shooting for anyway, he's 27 and Scoot will be 19 next year. By the time scoot is entering his prime Jaylen will be exiting his. Brown to POR makes very little sense.

If you want a Brown for Lillard deal it has to be Brown to a 3rd team IMO.

[Vermont Green]

I like Jaylen on the Blazers

G: Scott Henderson, Pritchard
G: Anfernee Simons, Shaedon Sharpe
F: Jaylen Brown
F: Jerami Grant
C: Rob Williams, Josef Nurkic

That is a fun group to build around long term.

By the way, Jaylen and J Grant must be the worst passing high volume scoring forward duo in the entire league. Poor Scoot and A Simons; their lives will be difficult trying to maintain ball movement next to those two. Not an easy environment for a young PG like Scoot.

I don't think it is a playoff team next year though. It is a team that could get to .500 if things break well for them but probably more like 33-36 wins. So Jaylen would have to buy in to the future potential of the team and the opportunity for him to be the face of the franchise there. As Scoot develops, that will be a playoff team. It can become a 50 win team in 2-3 years time.

In my version of the trade, POR gets RWill + Pritchard and we get Sharpe (for salary purposes), so POR still looks really good, RWill gives them some additional passing.  I think this results in a good young line up, they would pass enough.

But yes, Brown could kibosh the trade if he wanted to.

[keevsnick]

The only way I see the Celtics trading for Lillard is if the negotiations with Brown over his extension sputter, and the team looks to trade him. But does Portland do that deal? Brown would essentially be on an expiring deal, and the Blazers would be hard pressed to sign him once he becomes a FA. They'd probably ask the Celtics for draft picks in addition to Brown, which then starts to become dicey since you'd be taking on a massive contract for a player that's entering his mid-30s. All of this together, and I just don't think it's likely.

Brown's contract, willingness to sign would be a factor but I am not sure POR would get a better deal.  They would still be in position to offer the most when Brown became a UFA.  Brown would clearly be "the man" with some good young players around him and Jerami Grant.  It would be a tough decision for POR but I think worth the risk, if the alternative is Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinson and a bunch of picks.

Not by a lot. The difference in the first four years of a contract extension between his incumbent team and whoever signs him would be less than 8 million dollars the first four years. The MAIN difference would be the extra fifth year at the end which would be like in the 58 million range for his age 32 season. But at that age he can probably make it up the difference on his next contract anyway anyway by signing a 3+1 and getting back to free agency earlier.

[Vermont Green]

The only way I see the Celtics trading for Lillard is if the negotiations with Brown over his extension sputter, and the team looks to trade him. But does Portland do that deal? Brown would essentially be on an expiring deal, and the Blazers would be hard pressed to sign him once he becomes a FA. They'd probably ask the Celtics for draft picks in addition to Brown, which then starts to become dicey since you'd be taking on a massive contract for a player that's entering his mid-30s. All of this together, and I just don't think it's likely.

Brown's contract, willingness to sign would be a factor but I am not sure POR would get a better deal.  They would still be in position to offer the most when Brown became a UFA.  Brown would clearly be "the man" with some good young players around him and Jerami Grant.  It would be a tough decision for POR but I think worth the risk, if the alternative is Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinson and a bunch of picks.

Not by a lot. The difference in the first four years of a contract extension between his incumbent team and whoever signs him would be less than 8 million dollars the first four years. The MAIN difference would be the extra fifth year at the end which would be like in the 58 million range for his age 32 season. But at that age he can probably make it up the difference on his next contract anyway anyway by signing a 3+1 and getting back to free agency earlier.

Like I said, it depends a lot on what the other options are and how truly motivated that POR is to trade Lillard.  If Brown signals that absolutely no way he would resign in POR, then I agree, the deal is dead.  But I am not sure it would play out like that.  Maybe.

But if Brown says I am not committing to resigning, I will explore my options, including resigning, at the appropriate time, then maybe it is a risk worth taking for POR.

[keevsnick]

The only way I see the Celtics trading for Lillard is if the negotiations with Brown over his extension sputter, and the team looks to trade him. But does Portland do that deal? Brown would essentially be on an expiring deal, and the Blazers would be hard pressed to sign him once he becomes a FA. They'd probably ask the Celtics for draft picks in addition to Brown, which then starts to become dicey since you'd be taking on a massive contract for a player that's entering his mid-30s. All of this together, and I just don't think it's likely.

Brown's contract, willingness to sign would be a factor but I am not sure POR would get a better deal.  They would still be in position to offer the most when Brown became a UFA.  Brown would clearly be "the man" with some good young players around him and Jerami Grant.  It would be a tough decision for POR but I think worth the risk, if the alternative is Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinson and a bunch of picks.

Not by a lot. The difference in the first four years of a contract extension between his incumbent team and whoever signs him would be less than 8 million dollars the first four years. The MAIN difference would be the extra fifth year at the end which would be like in the 58 million range for his age 32 season. But at that age he can probably make it up the difference on his next contract anyway anyway by signing a 3+1 and getting back to free agency earlier.

Like I said, it depends a lot on what the other options are and how truly motivated that POR is to trade Lillard.  If Brown signals that absolutely no way he would resign in POR, then I agree, the deal is dead.  But I am not sure it would play out like that.  Maybe.

But if Brown says I am not committing to resigning, I will explore my options, including resigning, at the appropriate time, then maybe it is a risk worth taking for POR.

Ya my main point is that for a team that's going to be bad next year I just can't see a situation in which trading for a guy who can't be extended right now in Brown makes any sense. Almsot regardless of what Brown tells you its too big a risk.

[theswitch]

I like Jaylen on the Blazers

G: Scott Henderson, Pritchard
G: Anfernee Simons, Shaedon Sharpe
F: Jaylen Brown
F: Jerami Grant
C: Rob Williams, Josef Nurkic

That is a fun group to build around long term.

By the way, Jaylen and J Grant must be the worst passing high volume scoring forward duo in the entire league. Poor Scoot and A Simons; their lives will be difficult trying to maintain ball movement next to those two. Not an easy environment for a young PG like Scoot.

I don't think it is a playoff team next year though. It is a team that could get to .500 if things break well for them but probably more like 33-36 wins. So Jaylen would have to buy in to the future potential of the team and the opportunity for him to be the face of the franchise there. As Scoot develops, that will be a playoff team. It can become a 50 win team in 2-3 years time.

In my version of the trade, POR gets RWill + Pritchard and we get Sharpe (for salary purposes), so POR still looks really good, RWill gives them some additional passing.  I think this results in a good young line up, they would pass enough.

But yes, Brown could kibosh the trade if he wanted to.

I don't see Brown turning down a super max from Portland -- if I'm them, I'm taking that risk. You can pay the guy $100M more than anyone else can and your roster is young and tantalizing. Scoot, Simons, Brown is as fun and high ceiling a 1-3 as you'll find in the league. Grant and Rob are solid. Jaylen gets to be "the guy". There's a lot to like for him there.

I think the bigger issue would be that trading Sharpe is a dealbreaker.

[Vermont Green]

I like Jaylen on the Blazers

G: Scott Henderson, Pritchard
G: Anfernee Simons, Shaedon Sharpe
F: Jaylen Brown
F: Jerami Grant
C: Rob Williams, Josef Nurkic

That is a fun group to build around long term.

By the way, Jaylen and J Grant must be the worst passing high volume scoring forward duo in the entire league. Poor Scoot and A Simons; their lives will be difficult trying to maintain ball movement next to those two. Not an easy environment for a young PG like Scoot.

I don't think it is a playoff team next year though. It is a team that could get to .500 if things break well for them but probably more like 33-36 wins. So Jaylen would have to buy in to the future potential of the team and the opportunity for him to be the face of the franchise there. As Scoot develops, that will be a playoff team. It can become a 50 win team in 2-3 years time.

In my version of the trade, POR gets RWill + Pritchard and we get Sharpe (for salary purposes), so POR still looks really good, RWill gives them some additional passing.  I think this results in a good young line up, they would pass enough.

But yes, Brown could kibosh the trade if he wanted to.

I don't see Brown turning down a super max from Portland -- if I'm them, I'm taking that risk. You can pay the guy $100M more than anyone else can and your roster is young and tantalizing. Scoot, Simons, Brown is as fun and high ceiling a 1-3 as you'll find in the league. Grant and Rob are solid. Jaylen gets to be "the guy". There's a lot to like for him there.

I think the bigger issue would be that trading Sharpe is a dealbreaker.

The basic trade still works financially if Pritchard and Sharpe are taken out of it.  Not sure it is still a fair trade for BOS at that point though.  It would be a great trade for POR, assuming they are willing to take the risk on resigning Brown.  Sharpe is a lot to ask for but he would be a back up to Simons and Brown after the trade.  I am probably being a bit greedy.

[RJ87]

I like Jaylen on the Blazers

G: Scott Henderson, Pritchard
G: Anfernee Simons, Shaedon Sharpe
F: Jaylen Brown
F: Jerami Grant
C: Rob Williams, Josef Nurkic

That is a fun group to build around long term.

By the way, Jaylen and J Grant must be the worst passing high volume scoring forward duo in the entire league. Poor Scoot and A Simons; their lives will be difficult trying to maintain ball movement next to those two. Not an easy environment for a young PG like Scoot.

I don't think it is a playoff team next year though. It is a team that could get to .500 if things break well for them but probably more like 33-36 wins. So Jaylen would have to buy in to the future potential of the team and the opportunity for him to be the face of the franchise there. As Scoot develops, that will be a playoff team. It can become a 50 win team in 2-3 years time.

In my version of the trade, POR gets RWill + Pritchard and we get Sharpe (for salary purposes), so POR still looks really good, RWill gives them some additional passing.  I think this results in a good young line up, they would pass enough.

But yes, Brown could kibosh the trade if he wanted to.

Portland is very high on Sharpe, don't see them throwing him in as salary filler.