Celtics Off-Season News

[Roy H.]

I find the Svi comparisons to be fascinating.  I guess I'll just throw out a general reminder that this is a guy who played 32 games last season and wasn't in high demand this off-season in the NBA.  It's pretty unlikely that he finds the rotation, even on a Celtics team that is likely to feature a number of injuries.

Having him as a 14th man to roll the dice on is fine (although not my preference).  But, just in the past half-dozen posts or so, I've seen references to Strus, Hayward and Fournier.  I don't think that Svi is close to that class of player.

The other thing:  what value do fans place in YouTube highlights, particularly those that don't break down a player's game?

Is he really that far down the depth chart?  Everyone agrees on the top-8. Then the interesting discussion begins:

I think there's some competition for the 9, 10, 11, 12 among Sam Hauser, Oshae Brissett, Jordan Walsh and Svi. These guys are all similar height, around 6'7".

Deep bench is Kornet, Davison, Scrubb and Banton. (You could put rookie Walsh here, but I'd like to see him get on the court with his elite defense.)

Based on that, I think Svi is no lower than 12th, especially if Walsh is on the deep bench.

I never quote myself, but felt a need to highlight my contention that Svi will be higher than 14th on the depth chart. If you put Jordan Walsh in the "deep bench" category, Svi is somewhere in the 9-11 range.

It really is sobering to think that we only have seven reliable rotation players:  KP, Horford, Timelord, Tatum, Brown, Brogdon, White.

Of those seven, four of them are likely to miss significant time, whether it's due to injury or load management.

After that, we have seven guys who are borderline:  Pritchard, Brisset, Hauser, Kornet, Svi, Banton, Walsh

I think that Brad botched this off-season.  A championship contender shouldn't have half its roster full of fringe rotation players, especially with so many of our guys almost guaranteed to miss significant time.

I'm going to disagree on these two points, Roy. I add Pritchard to make eight rotation players, and that's all a team needs for the playoffs. Then don't forget that Brad is leaving one spot open (as usual, going into the season) so that even if Pritchard is not the 8th guy, there's a good chance Brad fills that spot before the trade deadline. So with 8 main players, that leaves 7 as "fringe rotation players" which is indeed almost half the roster. I think that's typical for a deep playoff team (admittedly, I haven't done the research).

I'd respond by saying:

1.  I like Pritchard, but he had a fairly down year last season, and the coach clearly doesn't trust him.  Historically he's been overmatched in the playoffs.  I don't count him as a reliable player at this point.

2.  I don't agree that the modern model is to have 50% of the team being fringe rotation or worse. 

People have pointed to Denver, but we don't have a multiple MVP all-time great at center.  And, Denver got a bit lucky with its health.  On the other end of the spectrum was Miami, which lost two rotation players in the playoffs.  That team had 12 rotation-worthy players, and it showed.

With us having several starters who are very likely to miss substantial time, I'd rather have quality depth than fringe players.

I’m going to push back on the Heat having 12 rotation-caliber players, at least as you’re willing to define them.  Entering last season, would you have counted Haywood Highsmith as a rotation-caliber player for the playoffs?  Duncan Robinson?  Cody Zeller? Those were guys who were fringe players or salary-dump candidates (in the case of Robinson).  Nothing in their profile entering last season is substantially different from guys like Pritchard, Hauser, and Brissett.  The difference is Miami played their fringe guys in the playoffs when injuries struck or minutes were needed, and we kept ours glued to the bench.

Duncan Robinson was a proven player.  There's a reason he got overpaid in the first place.  Zeller was a proven NBA commodity.  I don't think it's a surprise that the Heat could rely on them for specific roles.

I won't argue about Joe's utilization of our roster, though.  My guess is that Spoelstra would have been playing Grant, Hauser, Pritchard, Kornet and Muscala nightly.

[Vermont Green]

What exactly is "fringe rotation" player.  Is that a player who plays somewhat regularly during the regular season but then not so much in the playoffs?  I don't think there were any playoff teams last season that had a playoff rotation of more than 8 players getting regular minutes.  Our top 7 is probably the best in the league.  Our 8-10 is probably Pritchard, Hauser, and Brissett.  Are those "fringe rotation" players?  Brissett averaged 66 games and about 20 min per the last two seasons.  Hauser 80 games last season, about 16 min per.  I don't see anything "fringe" about these players in the regular season.  In the playoffs, sure.

As to 11-14, Banton, Svi, Walsh, Kornet, they are the end of the bench.  If we are counting on any of them in the playoffs, we are in trouble.  I see Svi and Kornet as established deep bench, emergency use players.  Kornet actually played some useful, limit the damage minutes for the Celtics last season and has for other teams over his career.  I see Svi as a similar level player.  Banton and Walsh are prospects, anything more than garbage time from either will be gravy.

So this whole quarrel seems to be over the 8th player on the roster.  Are one of Hauser, Pritchard, or Brissett good enough to be in the 8-man playoff rotation?  If you expect 9 or more "playoff rotation" caliber players on the roster, I think you are asking too much, the expectation is not realistic.  I see our 6th (Brogdon) and 7th (Horford) as extremely high level for their roles.  It would be nice if our 8th guy was a 6MoY candidate too, but again, is that really the floor of expectation for the off season?

[Vermont Green]

If MIA is your model for roster building, I suggest caution.  We can line up what they have going into the season with what the Celtics have:

Likely Starters:
Herro
Richardson
Butler
Love
Adebayo

Main Bench:
Lowry
Robinson
Martin
Highsmith
Bryant

That is not 12 deep with players that you expect to be in the playoff rotation.  I am not sure it is even 8 deep.  Lowry may get another season in before he totally breaks down and let's assume that Martin is able to build on his Cinderella season.  Robinson isn't any better than Pritchard or Hauser and Highsmith and Bryant can't be expected to be core playoff rotation.  Even Kevin Love may be on the fringe.

The recency bias on the MIA players is based on a few of them coming out of nowhere and playing out of their minds in the series against the Celtics.  You have to credit them and the coach for doing that but that to me seems like more of a one off fluke than the measure of the Celtics roster.  Vincent, Martin, Highsmith, and Martin all shot about 50% from 3 in the series vs. Boston.  Martin and Vincent were down to 33% in the finals.  Robinson 42% and Highsmith 50% in limited minutes in the finals.  It was a fluke.

Duncan Robinson is an odd one.  He at times was a starter, at times didn't play much at all, and then he stepped in and hit some clutch killer shots against the Celtics in the playoffs.  I am not sure he is that much different than Hauser though.

[Roy H.]

Nice, positive interview with Tatum:

https://themessenger.com/sports/nba-boston-celtics-jayson-tatum-bill-russell-larry-bird

[Vermont Green]

Nice, positive interview with Tatum:

https://themessenger.com/sports/nba-boston-celtics-jayson-tatum-bill-russell-larry-bird

He hit all the notes:

Legacy
Udoka
Leadership Style
Brown Contract
Smart Trade
Defending Mazzulla

I feel Tatum still has some growing or maturing to do, what 25 year old wouldn't.  I am optimistic he will get there.

[Surferdad]

What exactly is "fringe rotation" player.  Is that a player who plays somewhat regularly during the regular season but then not so much in the playoffs?  I don't think there were any playoff teams last season that had a playoff rotation of more than 8 players getting regular minutes.  Our top 7 is probably the best in the league.  Our 8-10 is probably Pritchard, Hauser, and Brissett.  Are those "fringe rotation" players?  Brissett averaged 66 games and about 20 min per the last two seasons.  Hauser 80 games last season, about 16 min per.  I don't see anything "fringe" about these players in the regular season.  In the playoffs, sure.

As to 11-14, Banton, Svi, Walsh, Kornet, they are the end of the bench.  If we are counting on any of them in the playoffs, we are in trouble.  I see Svi and Kornet as established deep bench, emergency use players.  Kornet actually played some useful, limit the damage minutes for the Celtics last season and has for other teams over his career.  I see Svi as a similar level player.  Banton and Walsh are prospects, anything more than garbage time from either will be gravy.

So this whole quarrel seems to be over the 8th player on the roster.  Are one of Hauser, Pritchard, or Brissett good enough to be in the 8-man playoff rotation?  If you expect 9 or more "playoff rotation" caliber players on the roster, I think you are asking too much, the expectation is not realistic.  I see our 6th (Brogdon) and 7th (Horford) as extremely high level for their roles.  It would be nice if our 8th guy was a 6MoY candidate too, but again, is that really the floor of expectation for the off season?

Yes exactly, VG. I see PP as 8th and Roy does not.  Since the 1986 championship year, I see the formula as "1-3-8" meaning you need ONE superstar, THREE all-stars and EIGHT starting-level players. The formula works if Pritchard is a starting level player. I think most people agree he is not, but what if he has a breakout year surrounded by all better players?  Also as I posted earlier, if PP is not good enough, there's an open roster spot for Brad to make a move before the trade deadline.

[Neurotic Guy]

What exactly is "fringe rotation" player.  Is that a player who plays somewhat regularly during the regular season but then not so much in the playoffs?  I don't think there were any playoff teams last season that had a playoff rotation of more than 8 players getting regular minutes.  Our top 7 is probably the best in the league.  Our 8-10 is probably Pritchard, Hauser, and Brissett.  Are those "fringe rotation" players?  Brissett averaged 66 games and about 20 min per the last two seasons.  Hauser 80 games last season, about 16 min per.  I don't see anything "fringe" about these players in the regular season.  In the playoffs, sure.

As to 11-14, Banton, Svi, Walsh, Kornet, they are the end of the bench.  If we are counting on any of them in the playoffs, we are in trouble.  I see Svi and Kornet as established deep bench, emergency use players.  Kornet actually played some useful, limit the damage minutes for the Celtics last season and has for other teams over his career.  I see Svi as a similar level player.  Banton and Walsh are prospects, anything more than garbage time from either will be gravy.

So this whole quarrel seems to be over the 8th player on the roster.  Are one of Hauser, Pritchard, or Brissett good enough to be in the 8-man playoff rotation?  If you expect 9 or more "playoff rotation" caliber players on the roster, I think you are asking too much, the expectation is not realistic.  I see our 6th (Brogdon) and 7th (Horford) as extremely high level for their roles.  It would be nice if our 8th guy was a 6MoY candidate too, but again, is that really the floor of expectation for the off season?

Yes exactly, VG. I see PP as 8th and Roy does not.  Since the 1986 championship year, I see the formula as "1-3-8" meaning you need ONE superstar, THREE all-stars and EIGHT starting-level players. The formula works if Pritchard is a starting level player. I think most people agree he is not, but what if he has a breakout year surrounded by all better players?  Also as I posted earlier, if PP is not good enough, there's an open roster spot for Brad to make a move before the trade deadline.

Starting for who?

It does remain to be seen but I think PP has starter skills - at least solid backup. So he’s borderline around helping Cs achieve the 1-3-8 criteria.  Really looking forward to seeing what he does with regular rotation minutes.

[gouki88]

Nice, positive interview with Tatum:

https://themessenger.com/sports/nba-boston-celtics-jayson-tatum-bill-russell-larry-bird

I liked this from JT.

Smart was the heart and soul of the Celtics, his intensity and passion setting the tenor on the court. While Smart could be a lightning-rod as a veteran, losing his in-your-face approach leaves a void that Tatum knows he must account for — but in a way that matches his own style, which he describes as “reserved, quiet and laid back.”

“I'm never going to be Kevin Garnett,” Tatum says. “As much as people want me to be, that’s not who I am. The way I lead, the public may not ever see what I do.”

“When I need to, I make sure my voice is heard and I do it in my own way. I’m not going to be out there jumping up and down screaming. That’s just not my personality. As much as people want to talk about it and want me to be that, I’m not changing who I am. I lead in my own way. When I talk, everybody in that organization is going to listen. And whatever I say is always for the betterment of the team — and my teammates know that.”

Know your strengths

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Nice, positive interview with Tatum:

https://themessenger.com/sports/nba-boston-celtics-jayson-tatum-bill-russell-larry-bird

I liked this from JT.

Smart was the heart and soul of the Celtics, his intensity and passion setting the tenor on the court. While Smart could be a lightning-rod as a veteran, losing his in-your-face approach leaves a void that Tatum knows he must account for — but in a way that matches his own style, which he describes as “reserved, quiet and laid back.”

“I'm never going to be Kevin Garnett,” Tatum says. “As much as people want me to be, that’s not who I am. The way I lead, the public may not ever see what I do.”

“When I need to, I make sure my voice is heard and I do it in my own way. I’m not going to be out there jumping up and down screaming. That’s just not my personality. As much as people want to talk about it and want me to be that, I’m not changing who I am. I lead in my own way. When I talk, everybody in that organization is going to listen. And whatever I say is always for the betterment of the team — and my teammates know that.”

Know your strengths

Ummm, you mean except for when you think the refs missed a foul call?

[trickybilly]

Nice, positive interview with Tatum:

https://themessenger.com/sports/nba-boston-celtics-jayson-tatum-bill-russell-larry-bird

I liked this from JT.

Smart was the heart and soul of the Celtics, his intensity and passion setting the tenor on the court. While Smart could be a lightning-rod as a veteran, losing his in-your-face approach leaves a void that Tatum knows he must account for — but in a way that matches his own style, which he describes as “reserved, quiet and laid back.”

“I'm never going to be Kevin Garnett,” Tatum says. “As much as people want me to be, that’s not who I am. The way I lead, the public may not ever see what I do.”

“When I need to, I make sure my voice is heard and I do it in my own way. I’m not going to be out there jumping up and down screaming. That’s just not my personality. As much as people want to talk about it and want me to be that, I’m not changing who I am. I lead in my own way. When I talk, everybody in that organization is going to listen. And whatever I say is always for the betterment of the team — and my teammates know that.”

Know your strengths

Ummm, you mean except for when you think the refs missed a foul call?

Agreed - the game is so fast these days that not getting back on D is almost his biggest flaw.

[Goldstar88]

According to Bobby Manning of Celtics on CLNS, Taylor Funk has signed an Exhibit 10 deal with the Boston Celtics (h/t HoopsRumors).

[hpantazo]

According to Bobby Manning of Celtics on CLNS, Taylor Funk has signed an Exhibit 10 deal with the Boston Celtics (h/t HoopsRumors).

[liam]

According to Bobby Manning of Celtics on CLNS, Taylor Funk has signed an Exhibit 10 deal with the Boston Celtics (h/t HoopsRumors).

Bring the Funk!

[Celtics4ever]

Cheap out, Kelly Oubre isn't walking through that door

[Vermont Green]

Cheap out, Kelly Oubre isn't walking through that door

What do you propose that the Celtics offer to Oubre?