JB is a low IQ player

[keevsnick]

I blame the whole team and organization, Folks.   We win and lose as a team.

Players did not always show up and executed poorly.   The sense of opportunity to win a title was not there, and there was no desperation

Coach Maz struggled at times, he is a work in progress.   He was out coached more often than not.

Brad could have added some valuable depth in the buyout market but we ended up with Justin Champagnie.   This was a useless move.  He resigned Al who appears to be shot.    We could have used some depth.   He did build a good roster and losing Gallinari hurt us but he is more worried about team chemistry than talent.   He also does not realize that this team needs some tough guys on the roster.

All of the above, squandered this opportunity.

I would bet the Dunning Kruger effect applies to many of those criticizing Brown's real and basketball IQ.     JK

Agreed with this, but TP for the last line

Perhaps this is true with his general intelligence as a person, as we see so little of these players outside of the basketball context to truly judge them (though his history of aligning with Kanye and Kyrie so often certainly doesn’t bode well for his judgment).

That said, any reasonable person can see that his BBIQ  is below average to poor, especially for a star-level player. You cannot consistently make the poor decisions that he has throughout his career without coming to the same conclusion. He’s just not a smart basketball player.

Ya look I don't think his BBIQ is bad, I really don't. I think he has a dribbling problem, that's a skill not BBIQ, which to be fair are words people use interchangeably but probably shouldn't.

Dribbling is a skill, but the low BBIQ is evident from his continued insistence on trying to dribble through two or three guys at once—that's difficult for most players, but even more so for a guy who can't dribble. But it's like he thinks he can do it, when he obviously can't, which to me reflects low BBIQ. And that pull-up three he took yesterday when the Cs still had a chance was very ill-advised.

But... that wasn't really what happened this game? He threw a bad pass, had two offensive fouls, a travel, and got back tapped twice at least. Like the issue wasn't dribbling into a crowd. The issue was he had to be a #1 option and couldn't.

Except it was an issue, at least once. There was a play early in the first quarter where he brought the ball over halfcourt, on the left side, and tried shooting down the left sideline against two defenders, with a third defender nearby guarding another Celtic, and Brown lost the handle, then tried to get the ball back but committed a foul in the process. It was a classic Brown flub, then he compounded it by committing an early foul.

Look, a lot of players try to do too much when things fall apart. Brown falls into that category. So does Tatum sometimes, so does Smart. It sucks, but Brown saw Tatum hobbled, brogdon out, the team throwing up bricks, and as a result he pressed. I don't like what i saw, but i get why it happened. Thats all i'm saying.

Point taken. And I don't want to argue. At this point, I'm just so frustrated with this team that I'm trying to avoid saying much of anything about them, because most of what would come out of my mouth would be negative, LOL.

Fair enough man, its hard watching a team get so close and come up short. It felt like their year.

[Mahk E Mahk]

I blame the whole team and organization, Folks.   We win and lose as a team.

Players did not always show up and executed poorly.   The sense of opportunity to win a title was not there, and there was no desperation

Coach Maz struggled at times, he is a work in progress.   He was out coached more often than not.

Brad could have added some valuable depth in the buyout market but we ended up with Justin Champagnie.   This was a useless move.  He resigned Al who appears to be shot.    We could have used some depth.   He did build a good roster and losing Gallinari hurt us but he is more worried about team chemistry than talent.   He also does not realize that this team needs some tough guys on the roster.

All of the above, squandered this opportunity.

I would bet the Dunning Kruger effect applies to many of those criticizing Brown's real and basketball IQ.     JK

Agreed with this, but TP for the last line

Perhaps this is true with his general intelligence as a person, as we see so little of these players outside of the basketball context to truly judge them (though his history of aligning with Kanye and Kyrie so often certainly doesn’t bode well for his judgment).

That said, any reasonable person can see that his BBIQ  is below average to poor, especially for a star-level player. You cannot consistently make the poor decisions that he has throughout his career without coming to the same conclusion. He’s just not a smart basketball player.

Ya look I don't think his BBIQ is bad, I really don't. I think he has a dribbling problem, that's a skill not BBIQ, which to be fair are words people use interchangeably but probably shouldn't.

Dribbling is a skill, but the low BBIQ is evident from his continued insistence on trying to dribble through two or three guys at once—that's difficult for most players, but even more so for a guy who can't dribble. But it's like he thinks he can do it, when he obviously can't, which to me reflects low BBIQ. And that pull-up three he took yesterday when the Cs still had a chance was very ill-advised.

But... that wasn't really what happened this game? He threw a bad pass, had two offensive fouls, a travel, and got back tapped twice at least. Like the issue wasn't dribbling into a crowd. The issue was he had to be a #1 option and couldn't.

i think most of us who see JB as a low BBIQ player are coming to that conclusion with far more evidence than just last night’s game.

[RodyTur10]

KAT is known for being less than a hard-core competitor. Wasn't that part of Jimmy Butler's problem with him ?

We need to add tough minded guys, not more soft temperaments.

With the way Brown ended the season in a thud  and the super max salary that he demands, it would be very hard to trade for a tough minded all star caliber player.

KAT is not 100% ideal, but I'm willing to let him occupy the center position and let White/Brogdon replace Brown. We also still have 3 young guards/PGs from the previous drafts trying to prove their worth in the  NBA.

I think KAT, in a new environment in Boston, will surprise lots of people.

I’m not going to bother arguing any points other then you penciling in Brogdon as still on this team

Get that bum away from my basketball team.

You could involve Brogdon.

Brown + Brogdon for Towns + Anderson

[gouki88]

KAT is known for being less than a hard-core competitor. Wasn't that part of Jimmy Butler's problem with him ?

We need to add tough minded guys, not more soft temperaments.

With the way Brown ended the season in a thud  and the super max salary that he demands, it would be very hard to trade for a tough minded all star caliber player.

KAT is not 100% ideal, but I'm willing to let him occupy the center position and let White/Brogdon replace Brown. We also still have 3 young guards/PGs from the previous drafts trying to prove their worth in the  NBA.

I think KAT, in a new environment in Boston, will surprise lots of people.

I’m not going to bother arguing any points other then you penciling in Brogdon as still on this team

Get that bum away from my basketball team.

We blaming players for injuries now? He shouldn’t have played, and he should have known that, but he was still a great addition

So we can’t blame Brogdon for injuries but we can blame Brown for injuries?
Only difference is Brogdon made sure everyone knew about his, because he’s a baby.

Guy showed his true colors in the postseason. No defense. Always injured. Doesn’t take accountability.

Get him away. But you’re right he shouldn’t have played. Should’ve been absolutely super glued to bench. Last thing we needed after a slow start was that idiot air balling 3s and playing turnstile defense.

A lot of words to say very little. Who is blaming Brown for being injured?

If you think those were his true colours, it is just obvious that you've never paid attention to Brogdon before this postseason run. That's ok. No need to be so defensive in your ignorance

[gouki88]

[Who]

Dribbling is a skill, but the low BBIQ is evident from his continued insistence on trying to dribble through two or three guys at once—that's difficult for most players, but even more so for a guy who can't dribble. But it's like he thinks he can do it, when he obviously can't, which to me reflects low BBIQ. And that pull-up three he took yesterday when the Cs still had a chance was very ill-advised.

That is a good way to look at it. I often go back and forth on whether JB has a skill problem or a low BBIQ problem on offense. This framework describes it best.

JB has a skill problem (handles, passing) and it becomes a BBIQ because he insists on trying to do things he does not have the skill to do well (handles, passing, shot selection).

[Stig]

Dribbling is a skill, but the low BBIQ is evident from his continued insistence on trying to dribble through two or three guys at once—that's difficult for most players, but even more so for a guy who can't dribble. But it's like he thinks he can do it, when he obviously can't, which to me reflects low BBIQ. And that pull-up three he took yesterday when the Cs still had a chance was very ill-advised.

That is a good way to look at it. I often go back and forth on whether JB has a skill problem or a low BBIQ problem on offense. This framework describes it best.

JB has a skill problem (handles, passing) and it becomes a BBIQ because he insists on trying to do things he does not have the skill to do well (handles, passing, shot selection).

this.
I'm not convinced he's doing it out of selfish or ego. As the 2nd star, isn't he expected to get his own shot and carry the offence, he failed to do so, but I don't know BBIQ is to blame.

[Neurotic Guy]

I think JB is highly skilled and a very valuable player.  Super max is too much for anyone outside the elite of the elite, but the Celtics are stuck with it unless they want to lose a player of his caliber for lesser talent/assets.  If PBS can pull equal value and better fit  - fine with me.

JB works on his game and improves year to year. I think this forum would potentially be tough on any number of 2nd bananas if we saw them regularly - that includes Siakem, Beal, KAT, Butler, Young…
A player as good as JB as your second guy is a pretty good thing and shouldn’t be brushed aside so quickly even with his evident flaws. And I do shake my head regularly at his ill-advised dribbling.

I don’t believe in cutting bait on Jaylen — get him/team a competent and experienced head coach.  A coach who is likely to earn respect from the players and who can assertively address some the glaring repeated mistakes that get made by a few key players.  A defense-minded coach who can inspire players and will haven’t an offensive scheme that is less reliant on the three.

A new Head Coach before shopping Jaylen is the priority I’d favor.


Edit: a quick add not based on stats but on eye test.  Jaylen is noticeably better shooter (esp mid-range), passer, and finisher around the rim than he was in his first few years.  I think (weak as this sounds in my argument) that he has a better handle too - especially to create mid-range looks when he’s not doubled. No question there’s an IQ issue when he’s dribbling into coverage. But I believe this can improve. And if it does, you’ve got a great player.

[Dchuck]

I think JB is highly skilled and a very valuable player.  Super max is too much for anyone outside the elite of the elite, but the Celtics are stuck with it unless they want to lose a player of his caliber for lesser talent/assets.  If PBS can pull equal value and better fit  - fine with me.

JB works on his game and improves year to year. I think this forum would potentially be tough on any number of 2nd bananas if we saw them regularly - that includes Siakem, Beal, KAT, Butler, Young…
A player as good as JB as your second guy is a pretty good thing and shouldn’t be brushed aside so quickly even with his evident flaws. And I do shake my head regularly at his ill-advised dribbling.

I don’t believe in cutting bait on Jaylen — get him/team a competent and experienced head coach.  A coach who is likely to earn respect from the players and who can assertively address some the glaring repeated mistakes that get made by a few key players.  A defense-minded coach who can inspire players and will haven’t an offensive scheme that is less reliant on the three.

A new Head Coach before shopping Jaylen is the priority I’d favor.


Edit: a quick add not based on stats but on eye test.  Jaylen is noticeably better shooter (esp mid-range), passer, and finisher around the rim than he was in his first few years.  I think (weak as this sounds in my argument) that he has a better handle too - especially to create mid-range looks when he’s not doubled. No question there’s an IQ issue when he’s dribbling into coverage. But I believe this can improve. And if it does, you’ve got a great player.

JB has improved since he's been in the league particularly his shooting and, ironically, his handle as well (which goes to show how bad he was when he first got here).

But he lacks a "feel for the game" and has poor game recognition.  I believe there's a time and place to be aggressive but also a time and place to get others involved, identify mismatches for him and others, get the ball out of his hands quickly, be a decoy, make his teammates better, etc.  It's being able to dominate a game without scoring.  Some naturally have that ability and get even better with time.  Hopefully he can figure it out but I don't know how much better he can get at that. 

We hear it all the time about how the elite players talk about the game "slowing down".  He's been in the league 7 years, it doesn't seem like it's slowed down for him yet.

[tenn_smoothie]

He became a much better shooter than anyone expected. But the free throws continue to be bad, and as you said he turns it over every time. He takes hero ball 3s at the worst time. I just don't want him. I'd trade him for Anthony Davis in a heartbeat even though AD is much older. Or JB for Karl Towns... JB for Karl Towns... I will take a day to be an Uber driver but the kind where they drive the fancy black SUV, and even drive him to Logan. i got you JB.

We'd be trading one choker for another. If Brown makes you mad, Towns would drive you insane, he's probably the softest player in the league.

Agreed. Like JB, Towns is super talented, but a low IQ player as well.

Is he low IQ or just lazy.  I’m not sure, but I thought it was the latter.   I wonder if he’d perform better as a #2 on a contender.

i’ve always thought it was both.

he consistently and repeatedly makes poor decisions, more so in high stress situations. i remember his rookie season when the press was fawning over him as this high IQ renaissance man because he went to Cal, wore those geeky steve jobs glasses, and allegedly played chess. other than the PR, i haven’t seen anything to corroborate the hype. in fact, he’s proven to be an extremely dumb player.

imo, his laziness always seemed to be a “too cool for school” arrogance, as JB seems to think he’s better than everyone else. he’s always chaffed at the attention JT received, and i think JB is the sole source of the locker room tension. he’s got to go.

I'd say it's a given that Brown thinks he is the smartest person in the room. If you have ever know someone like that, who believe they have a certain higher level of sophistication in their opinions than others, they are beyond annoying. They believe that their opinion on any given subject is the correct one because of their alleged intellectual supremacy.

[Goldstar88]

Caleb Martin: Our game plan is always to force Jaylen Brown to dribble to his left

Dan LeBatard Show: “Once Jayson Tatum was injured, was the entire game plan to send Jaylen Brown to his left?” – Dan “That’s always the game plan.” – Caleb Martin – via Twitter

[celticsclay]

He became a much better shooter than anyone expected. But the free throws continue to be bad, and as you said he turns it over every time. He takes hero ball 3s at the worst time. I just don't want him. I'd trade him for Anthony Davis in a heartbeat even though AD is much older. Or JB for Karl Towns... JB for Karl Towns... I will take a day to be an Uber driver but the kind where they drive the fancy black SUV, and even drive him to Logan. i got you JB.

We'd be trading one choker for another. If Brown makes you mad, Towns would drive you insane, he's probably the softest player in the league.

Agreed. Like JB, Towns is super talented, but a low IQ player as well.

Is he low IQ or just lazy.  I’m not sure, but I thought it was the latter.   I wonder if he’d perform better as a #2 on a contender.

i’ve always thought it was both.

he consistently and repeatedly makes poor decisions, more so in high stress situations. i remember his rookie season when the press was fawning over him as this high IQ renaissance man because he went to Cal, wore those geeky steve jobs glasses, and allegedly played chess. other than the PR, i haven’t seen anything to corroborate the hype. in fact, he’s proven to be an extremely dumb player.

imo, his laziness always seemed to be a “too cool for school” arrogance, as JB seems to think he’s better than everyone else. he’s always chaffed at the attention JT received, and i think JB is the sole source of the locker room tension. he’s got to go.

I'd say it's a given that Brown thinks he is the smartest person in the room. If you have ever know someone like that, who believe they have a certain higher level of sophistication in their opinions than others, they are beyond annoying. They believe that their opinion on any given subject is the correct one because of their alleged intellectual supremacy.

It’s funny forums and social media always have a lot of these people that think they are the smartest person on the platform.

[Atzar]

Caleb Martin: Our game plan is always to force Jaylen Brown to dribble to his left

Dan LeBatard Show: “Once Jayson Tatum was injured, was the entire game plan to send Jaylen Brown to his left?” – Dan “That’s always the game plan.” – Caleb Martin – via Twitter

Worth noting that this isn’t exactly a unique strategy.  Many high-level players have a weaker off-hand that defenses want to exploit.  Harden is another famous example - doesn’t want to go right.  Hell, even Butler is much weaker going left.

[gouki88]

Caleb Martin: Our game plan is always to force Jaylen Brown to dribble to his left

Dan LeBatard Show: “Once Jayson Tatum was injured, was the entire game plan to send Jaylen Brown to his left?” – Dan “That’s always the game plan.” – Caleb Martin – via Twitter

Worth noting that this isn’t exactly a unique strategy.  Many high-level players have a weaker off-hand that defenses want to exploit.  Harden is another famous example - doesn’t want to go right.  Hell, even Butler is much weaker going left.

It’s just that it usually isn’t so successful as to generate 8 turnovers and terrible shooting, especially on guys about to earn a super max

[Moranis]

Caleb Martin: Our game plan is always to force Jaylen Brown to dribble to his left

Dan LeBatard Show: “Once Jayson Tatum was injured, was the entire game plan to send Jaylen Brown to his left?” – Dan “That’s always the game plan.” – Caleb Martin – via Twitter

Worth noting that this isn’t exactly a unique strategy.  Many high-level players have a weaker off-hand that defenses want to exploit.  Harden is another famous example - doesn’t want to go right.  Hell, even Butler is much weaker going left.

It’s just that it usually isn’t so successful as to generate 8 turnovers and terrible shooting, especially on guys about to earn a super max

Yeah the problem is, Brown couldn't adapt and kept doing the same thing.  If it isn't working, do something else, even if that means giving the ball up to White or Smart.