Brown Needs To Go

[Roy H.]

I think that there's some recency bias here, along with an understandably strong aversion to turnovers.

But, in the prior two series alone, JB was excellent:

vs. ATL: 26.7 points, 5.3 rebounds, 3.0 assists, 54.1% FG%, 51.5% 3PT%
vs. PHI: 22.9 points, 5.3 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 54.1% FG%, 43.2% 3PT%

[JSD]

It's incredibly frustrating that our fanbase is eager to push a top 20 player out of town. We consistently contend for championships year after year, and it would be unwise to dismantle that success. Instead, we should focus on making incremental improvements around the core we already have.

Certainly, Jaylen had a tough series and should shoulder some of the responsibility. However, the true narrative lies in Tatum's unfortunate grade 2 ankle sprain on the very first play of the game. It was an incredibly unlucky turn of events that significantly impacted our performance. Truly, it was a stroke of terrible misfortune. Jaylen Brown is absolutely right in highlighting the behavior of some Celtics fans. Have some perspective.

This team should stick together for another year. With Danilo returning from injury and using the mid-level exception (MLE), along with any trades that Stevens can work out involving Grant and Payton, this team is going to be really strong next year.

[Surferdad]

It's incredibly frustrating that our fanbase is eager to push a top 20 player out of town. We consistently contend for championships year after year, and it would be unwise to dismantle that success. Instead, we should focus on making incremental improvements around the core we already have.

Certainly, Jaylen had a tough series and should shoulder some of the responsibility. However, the true narrative lies in Tatum's unfortunate grade 2 ankle sprain on the very first play of the game. It was an incredibly unlucky turn of events that significantly impacted our performance. Truly, it was a stroke of terrible misfortune. Jaylen Brown is absolutely right in highlighting the behavior of some Celtics fans. Have some perspective.

This team should stick together for another year. With Danilo returning from injury and using the mid-level exception (MLE), along with any trades that Stevens can work out involving Grant and Payton, this team is going to be really strong next year.

Good post, I agree with all of that. However, the coaching staff needs a major shake-up, maybe replaced entirely. Why did their defense fall off post-Ime?

[GreenBoomer]

Run it back with a new GM and coaching staff (with a different philosophy). Could really use a Lillard type player to take some end of game pressure off Tatum and Brown (they can't turn it over or jack up a bad 3 if they don't have the ball). Smart-RWill package might  get you close. But then you need a big. Any way to sign Poeltl?

[Celtics4ever]

It's incredibly frustrating that our fanbase is eager to push a top 20 player out of town. We consistently contend for championships year after year, and it would be unwise to dismantle that success. Instead, we should focus on making incremental improvements around the core we already have.

Certainly, Jaylen had a tough series and should shoulder some of the responsibility. However, the true narrative lies in Tatum's unfortunate grade 2 ankle sprain on the very first play of the game. It was an incredibly unlucky turn of events that significantly impacted our performance. Truly, it was a stroke of terrible misfortune. Jaylen Brown is absolutely right in highlighting the behavior of some Celtics fans. Have some perspective.

This team should stick together for another year. With Danilo returning from injury and using the mid-level exception (MLE), along with any trades that Stevens can work out involving Grant and Payton, this team is going to be really strong next year.

TP well said.   But I still think we need a glue guy leader type who demands toughness and accountability.   Send Brown and Tatum to sports psychologist to develop this if that would help.

[Kernewek]

It's incredibly frustrating that our fanbase is eager to push a top 20 player out of town. We consistently contend for championships year after year, and it would be unwise to dismantle that success. Instead, we should focus on making incremental improvements around the core we already have.

Certainly, Jaylen had a tough series and should shoulder some of the responsibility. However, the true narrative lies in Tatum's unfortunate grade 2 ankle sprain on the very first play of the game. It was an incredibly unlucky turn of events that significantly impacted our performance. Truly, it was a stroke of terrible misfortune. Jaylen Brown is absolutely right in highlighting the behavior of some Celtics fans. Have some perspective.

This team should stick together for another year. With Danilo returning from injury and using the mid-level exception (MLE), along with any trades that Stevens can work out involving Grant and Payton, this team is going to be really strong next year.

This is a good post - if only because I think we probably get used to the fact that we’re most likely running it back, because upgrading is going to be difficult.

[greg683x]

Who is the playoff league leader in turnovers?

Jaylen Brown!

66 turnovers in 20 games.

Hahaha, follow up:

(1) Jaylen Brown = 66 turnovers
(2) Jayson Tatum = 56 turnovers

Our two Jays leading all players in the playoffs in turnovers

(5) Marcus Smart = 45 turnovers

A 3rd player in the top five! Celtics owning this category.

Nikola Jokic and Bam Adebayo were 3rd and 4th with 53 and 50 turnovers respectively. The next DEN and MIA players to show up on the list are Jimmy at #9 and J Murray at #14. Again, we have 3 players in the top 5. Philly's duo of Embiid and Harden were #10 and #11. LeBron #7 and AD #12. Durant #8 and Booker #15. Again, our two stars were #1 and #2.

Lowry and D Russell were #16 and #17 to make a trio. Our 3rd guy was Smart at #5.

3 guys in the top 5 in turnovers!

They have the same disease that Paul Pierce had.  Double or triple team comes, and they think they can go through it rather than moving the ball.

In 2008, PP had 82 turnovers in the playoffs, 60 up until the ECF's.  In 2010 he had 64 turnovers, 46 into the ECF's. He averaged right at 3TOV a game in the playoffs whereas JB is just over 2 and JT is also right at 3.

These guys need to figure it out, pass the ball, someone is open!

These guys can never win with some of us though.  If they start dumping the ball off to the open man and the other guys aren’t hitting shots, we’re gonna complain that the moment is too big for him.  ‘He needs to take over’. ‘He only took 2 shots in the 4th, he shrinks whenever he needs to shine the most’.  They were saying these same things about Tatum just recently

If we lose, some of us will always find a way to make it the star players fault, it’s really pick your poison.

I’m not saying Jaylen didn’t make mistakes, he DEFINITELY made lots of mistakes.  But I’m pretty sure, with as cold from 3pt land as we were, even if Jaylen was making the right pass and finding an open 3pt shooter, some of us, not all us would still be killing him for not trying to take over in the 4th

[Redz]

To be fair, they've also played a bunch more games than anyone in the playoffs at this point. 

Guessing their per game numbers are not too fun to look at either.

[Larry for 3]

I think that there's some recency bias here, along with an understandably strong aversion to turnovers.

But, in the prior two series alone, JB was excellent:

vs. ATL: 26.7 points, 5.3 rebounds, 3.0 assists, 54.1% FG%, 51.5% 3PT%
vs. PHI: 22.9 points, 5.3 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 54.1% FG%, 43.2% 3PT%

But Roy are u paying 50-60 million a year for that knowing that our roster flexibility goes right out the window ? You’re paying Brown like a top 5 guy when he’s not close. No thanks from me

[angryguy77]

Who is the playoff league leader in turnovers?

Jaylen Brown!

66 turnovers in 20 games.

Hahaha, follow up:

(1) Jaylen Brown = 66 turnovers
(2) Jayson Tatum = 56 turnovers

Our two Jays leading all players in the playoffs in turnovers

(5) Marcus Smart = 45 turnovers

A 3rd player in the top five! Celtics owning this category.

Nikola Jokic and Bam Adebayo were 3rd and 4th with 53 and 50 turnovers respectively. The next DEN and MIA players to show up on the list are Jimmy at #9 and J Murray at #14. Again, we have 3 players in the top 5. Philly's duo of Embiid and Harden were #10 and #11. LeBron #7 and AD #12. Durant #8 and Booker #15. Again, our two stars were #1 and #2.

Lowry and D Russell were #16 and #17 to make a trio. Our 3rd guy was Smart at #5.

3 guys in the top 5 in turnovers!

They have the same disease that Paul Pierce had.  Double or triple team comes, and they think they can go through it rather than moving the ball.

In 2008, PP had 82 turnovers in the playoffs, 60 up until the ECF's.  In 2010 he had 64 turnovers, 46 into the ECF's. He averaged right at 3TOV a game in the playoffs whereas JB is just over 2 and JT is also right at 3.

These guys need to figure it out, pass the ball, someone is open!

These guys can never win with some of us though.  If they start dumping the ball off to the open man and the other guys aren’t hitting shots, we’re gonna complain that the moment is too big for him.  ‘He needs to take over’. ‘He only took 2 shots in the 4th, he shrinks whenever he needs to shine the most’.  They were saying these same things about Tatum just recently

If we lose, some of us will always find a way to make it the star players fault, it’s really pick your poison.

I’m not saying Jaylen didn’t make mistakes, he DEFINITELY made lots of mistakes.  But I’m pretty sure, with as cold from 3pt land as we were, even if Jaylen was making the right pass and finding an open 3pt shooter, some of us, not all us would still be killing him for not trying to take over in the 4th

There's a happy medium here. It's not one or the other. I think most people talking about tatum not getting shots isn't on him, but a flaw in the offensive scheme.

The problem is not that he didn't take over in the 4th, he didn't do it all for any part of the game. I can think of more plays over the last 2 series in big moments that hurt the team more than helped.

[RodyTur10]

There are three options:

• Trade Brown
• Sign Brown to a supermax (~60M a year)
• Brown walks away for free in 2024

[Roy H.]

I think that there's some recency bias here, along with an understandably strong aversion to turnovers.

But, in the prior two series alone, JB was excellent:

vs. ATL: 26.7 points, 5.3 rebounds, 3.0 assists, 54.1% FG%, 51.5% 3PT%
vs. PHI: 22.9 points, 5.3 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 54.1% FG%, 43.2% 3PT%

But Roy are u paying 50-60 million a year for that knowing that our roster flexibility goes right out the window ? You’re paying Brown like a top 5 guy when he’s not close. No thanks from me

I suspect the cap and luxury tax thresholds will be going up by about 10% for each year of JB's deal (due to the looming TV contract and "cap smoothing"), so I guess it mitigates it some.  But no, I don't like the idea of paying any guy $60 million per year, even Tatum.

[Vermont Green]

I understand that if we sign him to a supermax (5 years $295M) that we can't trade him for 1 year.  This is based on 35% of cap and 8% increases.  I further understand that if he decides to not take the supermax extension or that the Celtics don't offer it to him, that the most he could be offered by another team is about 4 years $205M or so, based on 30% of cap and 5% increases.  The first 4 years of the supermax would be about $225, so not way more than the 4 year deal he can get as a UFA.  Who knows what he could sign for in 5 years if he ends up on "only" a 4 year deal.

My question is what is the most we can offer him as an extension that would not impact our ability to trade him?  Could we offer him 4 years and say $200M, a very fair deal, but then have the ability to trade him if either the Celtics decide to or if he were to ask to be traded?

[Vermont Green]

I think that there's some recency bias here, along with an understandably strong aversion to turnovers.

But, in the prior two series alone, JB was excellent:

vs. ATL: 26.7 points, 5.3 rebounds, 3.0 assists, 54.1% FG%, 51.5% 3PT%
vs. PHI: 22.9 points, 5.3 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 54.1% FG%, 43.2% 3PT%

But Roy are u paying 50-60 million a year for that knowing that our roster flexibility goes right out the window ? You’re paying Brown like a top 5 guy when he’s not close. No thanks from me

I think a lot more than 5 guys are going to see supermax deals, but I don't disagree with your point.  It is a lot to pay your #2 guy, especially with all the new restrictions that are coming.

[Celtics4ever]

I am for keeping Brown but what about a Brown to ATL deal?   Send us Murray, Bey and Okongwu.    This helps them get a All NBA player, it helps us with depth and Brown would be going home.    Probably never happen.