Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[Moranis]

From the start of the season through February 26th of this past season, Boston was the top point generating team in ATO plays at 1.28 points per possession tied with Dallas.  I haven't seen data compiled for the full season, but I suspect it isn't much different than it was at the end of February.

In other words, Joe's ATO play calling was good enough to lead the league (even accounting for ORTG relativity, Boston was 5th).

This thread is full of perception that isn't borne in reality.  Actually pretty typical of internet blogs and forums in general.


https://www.basketballinsiders.com/news/nba-study-which-nba-coach-is-the-best-at-calling-plays/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3uTDcyE2VGb9fxAOfejFsHXaNnRK5M1gwG4mlv9n6AOSdzwqr6wJRTu90_aem_jIk-9Vq6ERyyH-VM4sjlHw

[BitterJim]

From the start of the season through February 26th of this past season, Boston was the top point generating team in ATO plays at 1.28 points per possession tied with Dallas.  I haven't seen data compiled for the full season, but I suspect it isn't much different than it was at the end of February.

In other words, Joe's ATO play calling was good enough to lead the league (even accounting for ORTG relativity, Boston was 5th).

This thread is full of perception that isn't borne in reality.  Actually pretty typical of internet blogs and forums in general.


https://www.basketballinsiders.com/news/nba-study-which-nba-coach-is-the-best-at-calling-plays/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3uTDcyE2VGb9fxAOfejFsHXaNnRK5M1gwG4mlv9n6AOSdzwqr6wJRTu90_aem_jIk-9Vq6ERyyH-VM4sjlHw

That's interesting, I wouldn't have expected that. TP.

Do you have similar stats for end-of-quarter plays?

[ozgod]

From the start of the season through February 26th of this past season, Boston was the top point generating team in ATO plays at 1.28 points per possession tied with Dallas.  I haven't seen data compiled for the full season, but I suspect it isn't much different than it was at the end of February.

In other words, Joe's ATO play calling was good enough to lead the league (even accounting for ORTG relativity, Boston was 5th).

This thread is full of perception that isn't borne in reality.  Actually pretty typical of internet blogs and forums in general.


https://www.basketballinsiders.com/news/nba-study-which-nba-coach-is-the-best-at-calling-plays/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3uTDcyE2VGb9fxAOfejFsHXaNnRK5M1gwG4mlv9n6AOSdzwqr6wJRTu90_aem_jIk-9Vq6ERyyH-VM4sjlHw

That's interesting, I wouldn't have expected that. TP.

Do you have similar stats for end-of-quarter plays?

It's because human beings tend to remember things that fail, or that didn't get done, rather than things that actually did. If something worked you move on to the next thing. But if someone did do something they should have done, you definitely remember it 

That's probably why Brad wasn't worried about Joe to the extent the fans were...he looked at the data, rather than whatever anecdotal evidence he saw in games.

[Donoghus]

From the start of the season through February 26th of this past season, Boston was the top point generating team in ATO plays at 1.28 points per possession tied with Dallas.  I haven't seen data compiled for the full season, but I suspect it isn't much different than it was at the end of February.

In other words, Joe's ATO play calling was good enough to lead the league (even accounting for ORTG relativity, Boston was 5th).

This thread is full of perception that isn't borne in reality.  Actually pretty typical of internet blogs and forums in general.


https://www.basketballinsiders.com/news/nba-study-which-nba-coach-is-the-best-at-calling-plays/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3uTDcyE2VGb9fxAOfejFsHXaNnRK5M1gwG4mlv9n6AOSdzwqr6wJRTu90_aem_jIk-9Vq6ERyyH-VM4sjlHw

That's interesting, I wouldn't have expected that. TP.

Do you have similar stats for end-of-quarter plays?

It's because human beings tend to remember things that fail, or that didn't get done, rather than things that actually did. If something worked you move on to the next thing. But if someone did do something they should have done, you definitely remember it 

That's probably why Brad wasn't worried about Joe to the extent the fans were...he looked at the data, rather than whatever anecdotal evidence he saw in games.

Absolutely.

I still wonder what would've happened had the Celtics got swept in the '23 conference finals rather clawing back.

[Silas]

From the start of the season through February 26th of this past season, Boston was the top point generating team in ATO plays at 1.28 points per possession tied with Dallas.  I haven't seen data compiled for the full season, but I suspect it isn't much different than it was at the end of February.

In other words, Joe's ATO play calling was good enough to lead the league (even accounting for ORTG relativity, Boston was 5th).

This thread is full of perception that isn't borne in reality.  Actually pretty typical of internet blogs and forums in general.


https://www.basketballinsiders.com/news/nba-study-which-nba-coach-is-the-best-at-calling-plays/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3uTDcyE2VGb9fxAOfejFsHXaNnRK5M1gwG4mlv9n6AOSdzwqr6wJRTu90_aem_jIk-9Vq6ERyyH-VM4sjlHw

That's interesting, I wouldn't have expected that. TP.

Do you have similar stats for end-of-quarter plays?

It's because human beings tend to remember things that fail, or that didn't get done, rather than things that actually did. If something worked you move on to the next thing. But if someone did do something they should have done, you definitely remember it 

That's probably why Brad wasn't worried about Joe to the extent the fans were...he looked at the data, rather than whatever anecdotal evidence he saw in games.

My signature quote says it all....."I've lived through some terrible things in my life, some of which actually happened."   -  Mark Twain

[Roy H.]

From the start of the season through February 26th of this past season, Boston was the top point generating team in ATO plays at 1.28 points per possession tied with Dallas.  I haven't seen data compiled for the full season, but I suspect it isn't much different than it was at the end of February.

In other words, Joe's ATO play calling was good enough to lead the league (even accounting for ORTG relativity, Boston was 5th).

This thread is full of perception that isn't borne in reality.  Actually pretty typical of internet blogs and forums in general.


https://www.basketballinsiders.com/news/nba-study-which-nba-coach-is-the-best-at-calling-plays/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3uTDcyE2VGb9fxAOfejFsHXaNnRK5M1gwG4mlv9n6AOSdzwqr6wJRTu90_aem_jIk-9Vq6ERyyH-VM4sjlHw

That's interesting, I wouldn't have expected that. TP.

Do you have similar stats for end-of-quarter plays?

It's because human beings tend to remember things that fail, or that didn't get done, rather than things that actually did. If something worked you move on to the next thing. But if someone did do something they should have done, you definitely remember it 

That's probably why Brad wasn't worried about Joe to the extent the fans were...he looked at the data, rather than whatever anecdotal evidence he saw in games.

You also need to remember the nature of ATO plays.  They're not the same thing as game-winners or end of quarter shot.  An offensive possession after a timeout in the middle of the quarter counts, too.  In fact, those are probably the vast majority of ATO plays.

Therefore, it makes perfect sense that the team with the best offense in the NBA would have the best offense after a timeout is called.  That's something the authors of the article attempt to adjust for, and it leads to the Celts falling to fifth (tied).

But, ATOs are different than specific plays that are set up by the coach in crunch time, which is what the complaints seem to be about.  I think the flip side is the pre-planned "leave the ball in the star's hands" at the end of quarters / games strategy, even when a timeout isn't called (and therefore isn't encompassed under ATO plays).

People want diversity in those situations.  We've all seen the "give JT the ball to run the clock down and chuck up a buzzer 3PT miss" play, and it is definitely the team's go-to.

[Kernewek]

Well, not the miss, but the shot, certainly.

[green_bballers13]

It's amazing to see what anxiety can do to a fanbase. This was a case study in extreme, fear based thinking. 178 pages. Brilliant.

So glad the basketball people make basketball decisions and bloggers make blog posts.

Can't wait for a another season of haters optimism.

[Donoghus]

It's amazing to see what anxiety can do to a fanbase. This was a case study in extreme, fear based thinking. 178 pages. Brilliant.

So glad the basketball people make basketball decisions and bloggers make blog posts.

Can't wait for a another season of haters optimism.

Seems like a pretty needless thread bump.

Some of the the stuff was clearly over the top but some of the criticism was pretty warranted. I think it's fair to critique. It's another thing to be irrational. 

[green_bballers13]

It's amazing to see what anxiety can do to a fanbase. This was a case study in extreme, fear based thinking. 178 pages. Brilliant.

So glad the basketball people make basketball decisions and bloggers make blog posts.

Can't wait for a another season of haters optimism.

Seems like a pretty needless thread bump.

Some of the the stuff was clearly over the top but some of the criticism was pretty warranted. I think it's fair to critique. It's another thing to be irrational.

I mean, isn't sports talk needless? There's really no need for any of this expression of ideas.

I thought Joe did a decent job last year. Most of this thread is either flat out wrong or hyperbole.

Joe got unfairly hammered, and Ime was put up on a pedestal. I think it's ok to talk about.

[Roy H.]

It's amazing to see what anxiety can do to a fanbase. This was a case study in extreme, fear based thinking. 178 pages. Brilliant.

So glad the basketball people make basketball decisions and bloggers make blog posts.

Can't wait for a another season of haters optimism.

Seems like a pretty needless thread bump.

Some of the the stuff was clearly over the top but some of the criticism was pretty warranted. I think it's fair to critique. It's another thing to be irrational.

I mean, isn't sports talk needless? There's really no need for any of this expression of ideas.

I thought Joe did a decent job last year. Most of this thread is either flat out wrong or hyperbole.

Joe got unfairly hammered, and Ime was put up on a pedestal. I think it's ok to talk about.

You're just trolling at this point, which is what Dons pointed out.  You're adding nothing new and saying nothing insightful.  Instead, you're bored and are trying to stir up conflict.

[mobilija]

[droopdog7]

Might as well resurrect the pick swap thread too

[Roy H.]

Might as well resurrect the pick swap thread too

Haha.  If that pick ends up being #2 overall, it was still a good trade at this point.

[green_bballers13]

It's amazing to see what anxiety can do to a fanbase. This was a case study in extreme, fear based thinking. 178 pages. Brilliant.

So glad the basketball people make basketball decisions and bloggers make blog posts.

Can't wait for a another season of haters optimism.

Seems like a pretty needless thread bump.

Some of the the stuff was clearly over the top but some of the criticism was pretty warranted. I think it's fair to critique. It's another thing to be irrational.

I mean, isn't sports talk needless? There's really no need for any of this expression of ideas.

I thought Joe did a decent job last year. Most of this thread is either flat out wrong or hyperbole.

Joe got unfairly hammered, and Ime was put up on a pedestal. I think it's ok to talk about.

You're just trolling at this point, which is what Dons pointed out.  You're adding nothing new and saying nothing insightful.  Instead, you're bored and are trying to stir up conflict.

Sorry if I was offensive. I thought the conversation was relevant to the Celtics. If I touched a nerve, I apologize.