Fire Joe! ... or critique Joe ... or defend Joe... or worry about Joe's coaching

[ozgod]

Off with the incompetent fool’s head!

[Kernewek]

gary washburn
@GwashburnGlobe
·
2m
#Celtics coach Joe Mazzulla named Eastern Conference Coach of the Month.

Crickets.....

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/14266781/golden-state-warriors-interim-head-coach-luke-walton-eligible-awards-not-credited-wins

What is the statute of limitations on this comparison?

Walton coached Golden State to a 39-4 record as an interim head coach. That's 43 games in total. He was coaching the best regular season team in NBA history - as the Warriors finished 73-9.

Mazzulla coached the Celtics to a 42-17 record as an interim head coach. That's 59 games in total. The C's finished 57-25.

Mazz's head coaching record is currently 83-32. The more games he coaches, the less likely it is that Mazz is seeing the same kind of unrepeatable success that Walton saw - especially as he doesn't have the luxury of coaching the best regular season NBA team (at least, not yet).

------
Potentially a better comparison within the Golden State organisation, if you think the head coach is holding the team back (broadly the original implication of this thread), is Mark Jackson, who coached essentially the same roster that won a championship in Kerr's first year.

Jackson's record with that ring-capable squad was 51-31* and a first-round exit (they won 67 games - plus the aforementioned ring - under Kerr's system the next year).

*potentially interesting footnote in the context of this conversation: this is the same record Udoka's Celtics had when we made it to the Finals.

[Moranis]

Jackson gets a lot more blame than he should.  The Warriors were a very young team under him improving every year.  And it was Jackson who really started them going small.  The last 4 games against the Clippers he benched JO and started Draymond along with Lee, Iggy, Steph, and Klay. Bogut was hurt and didn't play. The next year with Kerr, Barnes had improved enough to swap with Iggy and Bogut was healthy so he started instead of Lee, but I do think had Jackson stayed on, we would have seen a Bogut, Dray,  Klay, Steph and either Iggy or Barnes, and I do think as the trio all entered their prime, they still would have won a title with Jackson.  I think he got blamed for a failure that was one of youth and personality and not actual coaching.

[green_bballers13]

100 pages. This is officially silly. This thread has more to do with the posters than Joe.

[Kernewek]

Jackson gets a lot more blame than he should.  The Warriors were a very young team under him improving every year.  And it was Jackson who really started them going small.  The last 4 games against the Clippers he benched JO and started Draymond along with Lee, Iggy, Steph, and Klay. Bogut was hurt and didn't play. The next year with Kerr, Barnes had improved enough to swap with Iggy and Bogut was healthy so he started instead of Lee, but I do think had Jackson stayed on, we would have seen a Bogut, Dray,  Klay, Steph and either Iggy or Barnes, and I do think as the trio all entered their prime, they still would have won a title with Jackson.  I think he got blamed for a failure that was one of youth and personality and not actual coaching.

Absolutely not - the system Kerr implemented was wildly different than the one Jackson was using. Not the same plays, not the same points of emphasis, essentially nothing carried over, philosophically, between the two coaching regimes. You can find the old Warriors games on youtube, if you'd like to compare any given regular season games.

[Roy H.]

100 pages. This is officially silly. This thread has more to do with the posters than Joe.

Then don't post in it?

[Moranis]

Jackson gets a lot more blame than he should.  The Warriors were a very young team under him improving every year.  And it was Jackson who really started them going small.  The last 4 games against the Clippers he benched JO and started Draymond along with Lee, Iggy, Steph, and Klay. Bogut was hurt and didn't play. The next year with Kerr, Barnes had improved enough to swap with Iggy and Bogut was healthy so he started instead of Lee, but I do think had Jackson stayed on, we would have seen a Bogut, Dray,  Klay, Steph and either Iggy or Barnes, and I do think as the trio all entered their prime, they still would have won a title with Jackson.  I think he got blamed for a failure that was one of youth and personality and not actual coaching.

Absolutely not - the system Kerr implemented was wildly different than the one Jackson was using. Not the same plays, not the same points of emphasis, essentially nothing carried over, philosophically, between the two coaching regimes. You can find the old Warriors games on youtube, if you'd like to compare any given regular season games.

Sure they had a different system, but they also were just entering their prime and were building up team success in the normal process.  There is not a doubt in my mind, the Warriors win at least 1 title with the big 3 and Jackson.  Maybe they don't get Durant and win the 2 with him, but that team was going to win with Jackson.

I mean this is Curry his last year with Jackson and his first year with Kerr

Year 5 - 24 p, 8.5 a, 4.3 r - 42.4% 3 (7.9 attempts)

Year 6 - 23.8 p, 7.7 a, 4.3 r - 44.3% 3 (8.1 attempts)

Curry steadily improved every year in the league.  He was at his peak in 15-16, but that was his 7th year at age 27 (you know normal experience to hit prime). 

Kerr's system worked beautifully, but he also benefitted greatly from the greatest shooter ever hitting his prime basically right when he got there. 

[SCeltic34]

100 pages. This is officially silly. This thread has more to do with the posters than Joe.

It doesn't truly matter who the head coach is.  There will always be a "Fire [insert head coach here]" thread.  In recent recollection, this applied to both Stevens and Udoka.  Just ignore it if you find it ludicrous.

I recall lots of people calling for Udoka's head early on, including myself at about the end of December that season.  Then things turned around.  Then many people complained that we wish we had him instead of Joe last season.

Hopefully Joe proves his detractors wrong.  But it's the playoffs that will judge everything.  Championship or bust.  Our team this year is too talented to hold him to a lesser standard.

[SHAQATTACK]

Not now !  Todays hero !  Hip hip hurrah 

[ozgod]

100 pages. This is officially silly. This thread has more to do with the posters than Joe.

It doesn't truly matter who the head coach is.  There will always be a "Fire [insert head coach here]" thread.  In recent recollection, this applied to both Stevens and Udoka.  Just ignore it if you find it ludicrous.

I recall lots of people calling for Udoka's head early on, including myself at about the end of December that season.  Then things turned around.  Then many people complained that we wish we had him instead of Joe last season.

Hopefully Joe proves his detractors wrong.  But it's the playoffs that will judge everything.  Championship or bust.  Our team this year is too talented to hold him to a lesser standard.

I remember that - good old Uchoka has got to go thread. That one was only 47 pages though so Joe's got him beat (though Joe has an extra half season on him) 

[SHAQATTACK]

With over half season left and playoffs , we can do 150

[Redz]

Highest winning percentage in NBA coaching history. 

Look at Larry right up there!

https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/NBA_stats.html

[angryguy77]

Credit where credit is due, team is playing well.

Still not a fan tho

[ozgod]

With over half season left and playoffs , we can do 150

This might end up being the longest thread in CS history 

[Phantom255x]

With over half season left and playoffs , we can do 150

This might end up being the longest thread in CS history 

If the C's win a title with Mazzulla then this will officially be a legendary, hilarious thread all-time in CS history. At that point I'd hope the mods can maybe pin it somewhere on the site