Shams: Dejounte Murray Suspended For Game 5 (merged)

[jbpats]

Do I feel he should be suspended? No it was soft, even if he initiated it
Will he be suspended or should he be ? Absolutely - if the NBA has any level of consistency whatsoever (which it does not)

[Goldstar88]

I can’t imagine him not being suspended. It seemed like he was trying to intimidate the official. Looked really bad. Silver should make an example out of him.

[Phantom255x]

I don't think so

[Roy H.]

A lot of Hawks fans are saying if Dejounte is suspended, JT should get the axe too. Honestly i think those are two totally different situations. As said earlier, Dejounte sought the referee out after the game and made contact. JT on the other hand simply brushed the ref aside because he was for some reason holding JT back after getting fouled hard by Trae. Maybe JT gets warned just to appease the Hawks. I don’t think JT did anything wrong though. It was more like “get your hands off me”.

I agree that they're completely different situations.  Murray seemed to be trying to intimidate the ref; JT clearly wasn't.

I will say, I was surprised that nothing happened on the JT play.  I thought he clearly moved the ref aside in an effort to talk to the head official.  I don't think the action was meant to be hostile or intimidating, but it was fairly disrespectful.  My complete guess is that JT didn't receive a tech because the refs recognized that he had a legit complaint about the flagrant, but who knows?

To focus on this:

I don’t think JT did anything wrong though. It was more like “get your hands off me”.

I know that refs sometimes accept that reasoning if it's a scrum and the ref comes in from behind.  However, it's probably a bad policy if a player knows a ref is holding him back and then shrugs / bumps the ref off him, no?

[Who]

No. At least it doesn't deserve a suspension. Murray barely brushed against the ref. Murray is out of line and probably warrants a fine but not a suspension.

[tazzmaniac]

Don't see any defense for not suspending him.  They've suspended players for less.  The only reasoning for not doing so is not wanting to affect a playoff series. 

[Celtics2021]

A lot of Hawks fans are saying if Dejounte is suspended, JT should get the axe too. Honestly i think those are two totally different situations. As said earlier, Dejounte sought the referee out after the game and made contact. JT on the other hand simply brushed the ref aside because he was for some reason holding JT back after getting fouled hard by Trae. Maybe JT gets warned just to appease the Hawks. I don’t think JT did anything wrong though. It was more like “get your hands off me”.

I agree that they're completely different situations.  Murray seemed to be trying to intimidate the ref; JT clearly wasn't.

I will say, I was surprised that nothing happened on the JT play.  I thought he clearly moved the ref aside in an effort to talk to the head official.  I don't think the action was meant to be hostile or intimidating, but it was fairly disrespectful.  My complete guess is that JT didn't receive a tech because the refs recognized that he had a legit complaint about the flagrant, but who knows?

To focus on this:

I don’t think JT did anything wrong though. It was more like “get your hands off me”.

I know that refs sometimes accept that reasoning if it's a scrum and the ref comes in from behind.  However, it's probably a bad policy if a player knows a ref is holding him back and then shrugs / bumps the ref off him, no?

Tatum and the red made contact because the ref was trying to get in between Tatum and Trae after a hard foul.  Tatum wasn’t headed to Trae — he was headed to Zarba to argue for a flagrant, and he was already yelling towards him when the contact with the other ref was made.  If Tatum had pushed the ref out of the way to get to Trae, it might have been a problem, since that’s where the ref was trying to keep Tatum from getting to.  There was rightfully nothing done with Tatum — the ref in the moment realized he didn’t need to be in JT’s way because JT wasn’t going where the ref anticipated he would.

[Roy H.]

A lot of Hawks fans are saying if Dejounte is suspended, JT should get the axe too. Honestly i think those are two totally different situations. As said earlier, Dejounte sought the referee out after the game and made contact. JT on the other hand simply brushed the ref aside because he was for some reason holding JT back after getting fouled hard by Trae. Maybe JT gets warned just to appease the Hawks. I don’t think JT did anything wrong though. It was more like “get your hands off me”.

I agree that they're completely different situations.  Murray seemed to be trying to intimidate the ref; JT clearly wasn't.

I will say, I was surprised that nothing happened on the JT play.  I thought he clearly moved the ref aside in an effort to talk to the head official.  I don't think the action was meant to be hostile or intimidating, but it was fairly disrespectful.  My complete guess is that JT didn't receive a tech because the refs recognized that he had a legit complaint about the flagrant, but who knows?

To focus on this:

I don’t think JT did anything wrong though. It was more like “get your hands off me”.

I know that refs sometimes accept that reasoning if it's a scrum and the ref comes in from behind.  However, it's probably a bad policy if a player knows a ref is holding him back and then shrugs / bumps the ref off him, no?

Tatum and the red made contact because the ref was trying to get in between Tatum and Trae after a hard foul.  Tatum wasn’t headed to Trae — he was headed to Zarba to argue for a flagrant, and he was already yelling towards him when the contact with the other ref was made.  If Tatum had pushed the ref out of the way to get to Trae, it might have been a problem, since that’s where the ref was trying to keep Tatum from getting to.  There was rightfully nothing done with Tatum — the ref in the moment realized he didn’t need to be in JT’s way because JT wasn’t going where the ref anticipated he would.

Yeah, I'm just not sure I agree with the analysis.  If a player shoves / pushes / head bumps / displaces a ref intentionally, I think there should be a bright line rule.  I don't think there's much of a distinction between "pushed the ref out of the way to get to Trae" and "pushed the ref out of the way to get to [Zarba]", honestly.

If the intent of the rule is to limit aggression toward refs, I'd probably T a guy up for making intentional contact, and eject / suspend for contact meant to intimidate.

Either way, I don't think JT should have been ejected or suspended.  Based upon the Grant Williams standard (which was "reckless" contact, rather than intentional), a Murray suspension is probably worthy.

[ozgod]

Should be on Shaqtin a Fool 

[Vermont Green]

This really isn't about what Tatum did or how it compares to what Murray did.  What I saw was Murray making an intentional effort to approach, bump, and get into the face of the ref after the game.  He could have walked off the court and not gone anywhere near that ref.  But he didn't.  I think he should be suspended.

In the worst case with Tatum, maybe a technical foul.  Tatum didn't go after the ref to initiate the contact, the ref went to Tatum. 

[Atzar]

He'll probably be suspended, based on precedent.  Most guys who bump refs like this get some vacation time.

Once Murray got away from Pop, the mask came off and revealed the knucklehead behind it.  Glad I don't have to root for him. 

[Phantom255x]

Saw a Twitter post where the guy said that Murray was telling the ref, "hey ref please send me on vacation" them bump into him to get the suspension 

1-2-3 CANCUN!

[Celtics2021]

A lot of Hawks fans are saying if Dejounte is suspended, JT should get the axe too. Honestly i think those are two totally different situations. As said earlier, Dejounte sought the referee out after the game and made contact. JT on the other hand simply brushed the ref aside because he was for some reason holding JT back after getting fouled hard by Trae. Maybe JT gets warned just to appease the Hawks. I don’t think JT did anything wrong though. It was more like “get your hands off me”.

I agree that they're completely different situations.  Murray seemed to be trying to intimidate the ref; JT clearly wasn't.

I will say, I was surprised that nothing happened on the JT play.  I thought he clearly moved the ref aside in an effort to talk to the head official.  I don't think the action was meant to be hostile or intimidating, but it was fairly disrespectful.  My complete guess is that JT didn't receive a tech because the refs recognized that he had a legit complaint about the flagrant, but who knows?

To focus on this:

I don’t think JT did anything wrong though. It was more like “get your hands off me”.

I know that refs sometimes accept that reasoning if it's a scrum and the ref comes in from behind.  However, it's probably a bad policy if a player knows a ref is holding him back and then shrugs / bumps the ref off him, no?

Tatum and the red made contact because the ref was trying to get in between Tatum and Trae after a hard foul.  Tatum wasn’t headed to Trae — he was headed to Zarba to argue for a flagrant, and he was already yelling towards him when the contact with the other ref was made.  If Tatum had pushed the ref out of the way to get to Trae, it might have been a problem, since that’s where the ref was trying to keep Tatum from getting to.  There was rightfully nothing done with Tatum — the ref in the moment realized he didn’t need to be in JT’s way because JT wasn’t going where the ref anticipated he would.

Yeah, I'm just not sure I agree with the analysis.  If a player shoves / pushes / head bumps / displaces a ref intentionally, I think there should be a bright line rule.  I don't think there's much of a distinction between "pushed the ref out of the way to get to Trae" and "pushed the ref out of the way to get to [Zarba]", honestly.

If the intent of the rule is to limit aggression toward refs, I'd probably T a guy up for making intentional contact, and eject / suspend for contact meant to intimidate.

Either way, I don't think JT should have been ejected or suspended.  Based upon the Grant Williams standard (which was "reckless" contact, rather than intentional), a Murray suspension is probably worthy.

I think you're overanalyzing the amount of intent and aggression that occurred in a 1-second interaction with Tatum trying to get past an official, who wasn't trying to prevent Tatum from getting to the place he ultimately went to.  When the NBA talks about aggression towards officials, it's always been that the player has been trying to confront, or has just confronted, the official that contact was made with (see that Rondo bump where maybe he slipped, but he was headed for the official he bumped into, or the Grant ejection earlier this year).  That's the difference -- the official that Tatum made contact with wasn't whom Tatum was yelling at or about; it was incidental as the ref was moving into Tatum's path.  The ref didn't feel that there was aggression or intimidation sent his way, which ultimately is a judgment call of the official.

[Surferdad]

No. At least it doesn't deserve a suspension. Murray barely brushed against the ref. Murray is out of line and probably warrants a fine but not a suspension.

I don't think so

Do I feel he should be suspended? No it was soft, even if he initiated it

No. At least it doesn't deserve a suspension. Murray barely brushed against the ref. Murray is out of line and probably warrants a fine but not a suspension.

Sorry, all these comments are mistaken. The severity of the contact is irrelevant.

[W8ting2McHale]

No. At least it doesn't deserve a suspension. Murray barely brushed against the ref. Murray is out of line and probably warrants a fine but not a suspension.

I don't think so

Do I feel he should be suspended? No it was soft, even if he initiated it

No. At least it doesn't deserve a suspension. Murray barely brushed against the ref. Murray is out of line and probably warrants a fine but not a suspension.

Sorry, all these comments are mistaken. The severity of the contact is irrelevant.

I agree with you. Murray intentionally sought out the referee. He was headed off the court, looked around and saw his target, then went straight over and bumped him. It might not have been a hard bump, but he leaned in as he did it. That’s not accidental or acceptable. That’s intimidation.

I don’t know where Murray or these other commentators came up, but you try that in my old neighborhood fists will be thrown.

If that was the Intention
It should result in Suspension