Trae Young, Overrated? Or Just Hated?

[tazzmaniac]

I don't think Young is overrated because I don't think anyone from fans, to media, to fellow players, think he is a top 15 player and probably not even a top 20 player.  I think Morant and perhaps Luka are in fact overrated because they are widely regarded as very highly rated players and I don't think they are.  No one thinks Young is really all that good.  Exciting, sure, but a key component to winning basketball, nope.

I respectfully disagree about Luka. The international accolades he has garnered at his age are unprecedented. His career trajectory in the NBA is also up there with the greats. Dont forget, most all-time greats struggled with winning early in their careers, even Jordan and Lebron.

Sure, but they also weren't considered top 5 players and MVP candidates right away either.  Luka was pretty widely regarded as a top 5 player entering this season and many had him in the top 3.  He certainly isn't a top 3 player and probably isn't a top 5 player right now.  That would in fact make him overrated.

Luka has mostly been a top-5 or top-10 player, which is about what he’s rated. The Kia ladder currently puts Doncic 8th. https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-april-14-2023-edition

Luka did have a really hot start to the year, and that briefly gave him more buzz, but that’s the way it goes. Same thing happened to Tatum. He was in the MVP conversation for a while, but as his performance slipped nobody really has him as a serious contender.

Tatum is solidly and clearly 4th this season.  He was 6th the previous season.  He's not a serious contender this season but he projects to be in the next season or two. 

[Moranis]

I don't think Young is overrated because I don't think anyone from fans, to media, to fellow players, think he is a top 15 player and probably not even a top 20 player.  I think Morant and perhaps Luka are in fact overrated because they are widely regarded as very highly rated players and I don't think they are.  No one thinks Young is really all that good.  Exciting, sure, but a key component to winning basketball, nope.

I respectfully disagree about Luka. The international accolades he has garnered at his age are unprecedented. His career trajectory in the NBA is also up there with the greats. Dont forget, most all-time greats struggled with winning early in their careers, even Jordan and Lebron.

Sure, but they also weren't considered top 5 players and MVP candidates right away either.  Luka was pretty widely regarded as a top 5 player entering this season and many had him in the top 3.  He certainly isn't a top 3 player and probably isn't a top 5 player right now.  That would in fact make him overrated.

Luka has mostly been a top-5 or top-10 player, which is about what he’s rated. The Kia ladder currently puts Doncic 8th. https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-april-14-2023-edition

Luka did have a really hot start to the year, and that briefly gave him more buzz, but that’s the way it goes. Same thing happened to Tatum. He was in the MVP conversation for a while, but as his performance slipped nobody really has him as a serious contender.

Sure but MVP isn't really a top 5 player discussion either though.  I mean Mitchell probably deserves a top 5 finish in MVP, but he is most certainly not the 5th best player in the sport. 

ESPN Player Rankings at the start of the year had Luka 3rd, only behind Giannis 1 and Jokic 2.  Embiid was 4th and Curry 5th.  That is what I'm talking about.  Luka is pretty clearly not the 3rd best player in the sport this year.  He arguably wasn't even a top 10 player for the whole of the season, impact, value, etc.  He was basically an inefficient stat filler. 

[Sophomore]

I don't think Young is overrated because I don't think anyone from fans, to media, to fellow players, think he is a top 15 player and probably not even a top 20 player.  I think Morant and perhaps Luka are in fact overrated because they are widely regarded as very highly rated players and I don't think they are.  No one thinks Young is really all that good.  Exciting, sure, but a key component to winning basketball, nope.

I respectfully disagree about Luka. The international accolades he has garnered at his age are unprecedented. His career trajectory in the NBA is also up there with the greats. Dont forget, most all-time greats struggled with winning early in their careers, even Jordan and Lebron.

Sure, but they also weren't considered top 5 players and MVP candidates right away either.  Luka was pretty widely regarded as a top 5 player entering this season and many had him in the top 3.  He certainly isn't a top 3 player and probably isn't a top 5 player right now.  That would in fact make him overrated.

Luka has mostly been a top-5 or top-10 player, which is about what he’s rated. The Kia ladder currently puts Doncic 8th. https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-april-14-2023-edition

Luka did have a really hot start to the year, and that briefly gave him more buzz, but that’s the way it goes. Same thing happened to Tatum. He was in the MVP conversation for a while, but as his performance slipped nobody really has him as a serious contender.

Sure but MVP isn't really a top 5 player discussion either though.  I mean Mitchell probably deserves a top 5 finish in MVP, but he is most certainly not the 5th best player in the sport. 

ESPN Player Rankings at the start of the year had Luka 3rd, only behind Giannis 1 and Jokic 2.  Embiid was 4th and Curry 5th.  That is what I'm talking about.  Luka is pretty clearly not the 3rd best player in the sport this year.  He arguably wasn't even a top 10 player for the whole of the season, impact, value, etc.  He was basically an inefficient stat filler.

Based on the way he played last year and that he’s so young, it wasn’t crazy to think Luka would be one of the top players this year. Things didn’t go that way and the ratings adjusted. Where do they have him rated now?

Also, I don’t buy the idea that somebody who is eighth in the MVP rankings is considered a top three player in the league. When people are asked who is the best player in the league, they named seven people before him. That is obviously relevant to how he is rated or overrated.

[smokeablount]

Trae is fiery and a great offensive talent. Quick, can get to the rim and finish with a floater or set up teammates for a dunk,  can shoot quick with range. But... he doesn't make his team better. Lack of defensive effort and ability and no off ball movement. If the ball isn't in his hands he adds nothing, you can't win consistently with that as your best player. His on/off splits for this series are pretty telling. His team is better when he sits.

He's the NBA version of the kind of guy I always hated playing with. Best (or one of the best) player on the floor but a boor to play with, doesn't engage in the team game, mostly just gets his.

Want to add....I think Ja Morant is sort of in this same vein.

I feel vindicated. There was a thread awhile back asking about the most overrated athletes and my answer was hyped up NFL QBs and specifically Ja and Trae. If I were the Griz I’d consider dealing Ja.

[Moranis]

I don't think Young is overrated because I don't think anyone from fans, to media, to fellow players, think he is a top 15 player and probably not even a top 20 player.  I think Morant and perhaps Luka are in fact overrated because they are widely regarded as very highly rated players and I don't think they are.  No one thinks Young is really all that good.  Exciting, sure, but a key component to winning basketball, nope.

I respectfully disagree about Luka. The international accolades he has garnered at his age are unprecedented. His career trajectory in the NBA is also up there with the greats. Dont forget, most all-time greats struggled with winning early in their careers, even Jordan and Lebron.

Sure, but they also weren't considered top 5 players and MVP candidates right away either.  Luka was pretty widely regarded as a top 5 player entering this season and many had him in the top 3.  He certainly isn't a top 3 player and probably isn't a top 5 player right now.  That would in fact make him overrated.

Luka has mostly been a top-5 or top-10 player, which is about what he’s rated. The Kia ladder currently puts Doncic 8th. https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-april-14-2023-edition

Luka did have a really hot start to the year, and that briefly gave him more buzz, but that’s the way it goes. Same thing happened to Tatum. He was in the MVP conversation for a while, but as his performance slipped nobody really has him as a serious contender.

Sure but MVP isn't really a top 5 player discussion either though.  I mean Mitchell probably deserves a top 5 finish in MVP, but he is most certainly not the 5th best player in the sport. 

ESPN Player Rankings at the start of the year had Luka 3rd, only behind Giannis 1 and Jokic 2.  Embiid was 4th and Curry 5th.  That is what I'm talking about.  Luka is pretty clearly not the 3rd best player in the sport this year.  He arguably wasn't even a top 10 player for the whole of the season, impact, value, etc.  He was basically an inefficient stat filler.

Based on the way he played last year and that he’s so young, it wasn’t crazy to think Luka would be one of the top players this year. Things didn’t go that way and the ratings adjusted. Where do they have him rated now?

Also, I don’t buy the idea that somebody who is eighth in the MVP rankings is considered a top three player in the league. When people are asked who is the best player in the league, they named seven people before him. That is obviously relevant to how he is rated or overrated.

The MVP is not a best player award.  They aren't the same thing.  That is why the MVP ladder has no bearing on who the best player is. 

I mean this is the Kia MVP ladder in order: Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, Tatum, Mitchell, Sabonis, SGA, Luka, Harden, Durant.  The next 5 alphabetically were: Booker, Butler, Davis, Fox, and James

That is clearly not a best player list and thus has no bearing on whether or not a player is overrated, though I'd say Luka absolutely should be not be 8th in MVP voting either given his team couldn't even make the play-in tournament. 

[Celtics2021]

I don't think Young is overrated because I don't think anyone from fans, to media, to fellow players, think he is a top 15 player and probably not even a top 20 player.  I think Morant and perhaps Luka are in fact overrated because they are widely regarded as very highly rated players and I don't think they are.  No one thinks Young is really all that good.  Exciting, sure, but a key component to winning basketball, nope.

I respectfully disagree about Luka. The international accolades he has garnered at his age are unprecedented. His career trajectory in the NBA is also up there with the greats. Dont forget, most all-time greats struggled with winning early in their careers, even Jordan and Lebron.

Sure, but they also weren't considered top 5 players and MVP candidates right away either.  Luka was pretty widely regarded as a top 5 player entering this season and many had him in the top 3.  He certainly isn't a top 3 player and probably isn't a top 5 player right now.  That would in fact make him overrated.

Luka has mostly been a top-5 or top-10 player, which is about what he’s rated. The Kia ladder currently puts Doncic 8th. https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-april-14-2023-edition

Luka did have a really hot start to the year, and that briefly gave him more buzz, but that’s the way it goes. Same thing happened to Tatum. He was in the MVP conversation for a while, but as his performance slipped nobody really has him as a serious contender.

Tatum is solidly and clearly 4th this season.  He was 6th the previous season.  He's not a serious contender this season but he projects to be in the next season or two.

He’d probably be 3rd this year if the games played rule were in effect.

[Vermont Green]

This is why it is really impossible to quantify how much someone is overrated or underrated.  The starting point or baseline for everyone is different.  It is all based on your perception of someone else's perception of how they rate a player in their mind.  There are things you can look at like all star voting but really there is no hard baseline from which to compare the "overratedness" of a player to another player.

In terms of Trae Young, I feel the pendulum has swung.  I think he has played some great basketball in his career so that at times, he was playing above what I expected from him.  At other times, this season in particular, he has played below what I would expect.  I think he could still be a key player on a good team.  Look at Jalen Brunson for example.  Put Trae Young with someone like Julius Randle and I think Trae would be fine.

And my final thought is to caution about putting too much stake in how he is playing against the Celtics in this series.  The Celtics are a better team and they have a host of excellent defenders to put on him.  That has led to him looking pretty pedestrian so far but it is only 2 games.

Wanted to revisit this thread.  I think we saw it all from Trae in the 6 games.  First couple of games he didn't do much.  Then he came along and had a couple of really good games, especially game 5.  Then he came back down to earth a little in game 6, still had 30 pts and 10 assists, but missed a lot of potentially big shots.

I think that is Trae Young, he is a really good but imperfect player.

[ozgod]

He’s a great offensive player but not so much defensively. But offensively he can definitely get points in buckets, but not always at a high efficiency.

[Roy H.]

I don't think we saw anything unexpected out of Trae Young.  As an every day player, he's probably around the 15th to 20th best player in the NBA.  In general, he's an inefficient chucker who doesn't play defense.  His teammates don't like him.  But, as we've seen before and we just saw, he can go on hot streaks where he can take over a playoff series and can win games by himself.

[Who]

This is why it is really impossible to quantify how much someone is overrated or underrated.  The starting point or baseline for everyone is different.  It is all based on your perception of someone else's perception of how they rate a player in their mind.  There are things you can look at like all star voting but really there is no hard baseline from which to compare the "overratedness" of a player to another player.

In terms of Trae Young, I feel the pendulum has swung.  I think he has played some great basketball in his career so that at times, he was playing above what I expected from him.  At other times, this season in particular, he has played below what I would expect.  I think he could still be a key player on a good team.  Look at Jalen Brunson for example.  Put Trae Young with someone like Julius Randle and I think Trae would be fine.

And my final thought is to caution about putting too much stake in how he is playing against the Celtics in this series.  The Celtics are a better team and they have a host of excellent defenders to put on him.  That has led to him looking pretty pedestrian so far but it is only 2 games.

Wanted to revisit this thread.  I think we saw it all from Trae in the 6 games.  First couple of games he didn't do much.  Then he came along and had a couple of really good games, especially game 5.  Then he came back down to earth a little in game 6, still had 30 pts and 10 assists, but missed a lot of potentially big shots.

I think that is Trae Young, he is a really good but imperfect player.

Trae would be a lot more consistent if he didn't have Dejounte Murray next to him. Murray eats too much of the ball, too many shot attempts. He doesn't space the floor. Trae needs shooters next to him. Floor spacers.

It was like Westbrook and LeBron who did not fit well together because they are both ball dominant playmakers who work best next to floor spacers. Same with Trae. Same with D Murray.

That partnership is in neither player's interests. Both players are worse off for it.

[Atzar]

This is why it is really impossible to quantify how much someone is overrated or underrated.  The starting point or baseline for everyone is different.  It is all based on your perception of someone else's perception of how they rate a player in their mind.  There are things you can look at like all star voting but really there is no hard baseline from which to compare the "overratedness" of a player to another player.

In terms of Trae Young, I feel the pendulum has swung.  I think he has played some great basketball in his career so that at times, he was playing above what I expected from him.  At other times, this season in particular, he has played below what I would expect.  I think he could still be a key player on a good team.  Look at Jalen Brunson for example.  Put Trae Young with someone like Julius Randle and I think Trae would be fine.

And my final thought is to caution about putting too much stake in how he is playing against the Celtics in this series.  The Celtics are a better team and they have a host of excellent defenders to put on him.  That has led to him looking pretty pedestrian so far but it is only 2 games.

Wanted to revisit this thread.  I think we saw it all from Trae in the 6 games.  First couple of games he didn't do much.  Then he came along and had a couple of really good games, especially game 5.  Then he came back down to earth a little in game 6, still had 30 pts and 10 assists, but missed a lot of potentially big shots.

I think that is Trae Young, he is a really good but imperfect player.

Trae would be a lot more consistent if he didn't have Dejounte Murray next to him. Murray eats too much of the ball, too many shot attempts. He doesn't space the floor. Trae needs shooters next to him. Floor spacers.

It was like Westbrook and LeBron who did not fit well together because they are both ball dominant playmakers who work best next to floor spacers. Same with Trae. Same with D Murray.

That partnership is in neither player's interests. Both players are worse off for it.

I wouldn't let Trae off the hook for this though.  Learning to play with other good players is a big part of becoming a championship-caliber player.  He shoots well enough that he should be able to play just fine off of Murray or Bojan or even Collins when necessary. 

Last season when our offense was still just "Tatum's turn, Brown's turn, Tatum's turn", we sucked.  They're both good, but they won't win enough possessions going one-on-five with an occasional kickout.  And confining Smart to catch-and-shoot duty is probably the single worst way you can use him.  We turned it around when the Jays committed to being useful off-ball players.  Brown and especially Tatum have a lot of gravity, and when they learned that they could use that to empower guys like Smart and Horford (and White this year) to be important pieces of the offense, we took off. 

Trae and Murray need to learn the same lessons.  It's not time to rest if somebody else has the ball, and passing isn't the only way to make others better.  Everybody comes up wanting to shoot like Curry but they completely miss what really makes him a winner. 

[Celtics2021]

I don't think we saw anything unexpected out of Trae Young.  As an every day player, he's probably around the 15th to 20th best player in the NBA.  In general, he's an inefficient chucker who doesn't play defense.  His teammates don't like him.  But, as we've seen before and we just saw, he can go on hot streaks where he can take over a playoff series and can win games by himself.

Trae Young can win you two games, but he can also lose you four.

[Who]

This is why it is really impossible to quantify how much someone is overrated or underrated.  The starting point or baseline for everyone is different.  It is all based on your perception of someone else's perception of how they rate a player in their mind.  There are things you can look at like all star voting but really there is no hard baseline from which to compare the "overratedness" of a player to another player.

In terms of Trae Young, I feel the pendulum has swung.  I think he has played some great basketball in his career so that at times, he was playing above what I expected from him.  At other times, this season in particular, he has played below what I would expect.  I think he could still be a key player on a good team.  Look at Jalen Brunson for example.  Put Trae Young with someone like Julius Randle and I think Trae would be fine.

And my final thought is to caution about putting too much stake in how he is playing against the Celtics in this series.  The Celtics are a better team and they have a host of excellent defenders to put on him.  That has led to him looking pretty pedestrian so far but it is only 2 games.

Wanted to revisit this thread.  I think we saw it all from Trae in the 6 games.  First couple of games he didn't do much.  Then he came along and had a couple of really good games, especially game 5.  Then he came back down to earth a little in game 6, still had 30 pts and 10 assists, but missed a lot of potentially big shots.

I think that is Trae Young, he is a really good but imperfect player.

Trae would be a lot more consistent if he didn't have Dejounte Murray next to him. Murray eats too much of the ball, too many shot attempts. He doesn't space the floor. Trae needs shooters next to him. Floor spacers.

It was like Westbrook and LeBron who did not fit well together because they are both ball dominant playmakers who work best next to floor spacers. Same with Trae. Same with D Murray.

That partnership is in neither player's interests. Both players are worse off for it.

I wouldn't let Trae off the hook for this though.  Learning to play with other good players is a big part of becoming a championship-caliber player.  He shoots well enough that he should be able to play just fine off of Murray or Bojan or even Collins when necessary. 

Last season when our offense was still just "Tatum's turn, Brown's turn, Tatum's turn", we sucked.  They're both good, but they won't win enough possessions going one-on-five with an occasional kickout.  And confining Smart to catch-and-shoot duty is probably the single worst way you can use him.  We turned it around when the Jays committed to being useful off-ball players.  Brown and especially Tatum have a lot of gravity, and when they learned that they could use that to empower guys like Smart and Horford (and White this year) to be important pieces of the offense, we took off. 

Trae and Murray need to learn the same lessons.  It's not time to rest if somebody else has the ball, and passing isn't the only way to make others better.  Everybody comes up wanting to shoot like Curry but they completely miss what really makes him a winner.

I think Trae is such a flawed player that you have to build your team around his extreme weaknesses and extreme strengths.

He is not as adaptable as other guys.

That means allowing him to be a dominant ball-handler because you need that huge offensive impact to counter his large negative impact defensively in order to make him a high impact player. If you lower his time on the ball and make him a very large offensive impact instead of huge impact, then the Net of his offense minus defense contributions isn't good enough for a franchise star.

To be the franchise star he needs to have the team built around him and have both his weaknesses and his strengths compensated for in a way that goes beyond most other star players in the league due to the extreme nature (strengths / weaknesses) of his game.


A lot like Steve Nash.

PHO era Nash would not have played well with D Murray either. Murray would have disrupted the chemistry of that team and made it worse. PHO would have been far better with the ball in Nash's hands and playing alongside a 3&D guy like Raja Bell or a shooter/scorer like Barbosa rather than another high usage ball-handler & dodgy shooter in D Murray.

[Roy H.]

I don't think we saw anything unexpected out of Trae Young.  As an every day player, he's probably around the 15th to 20th best player in the NBA.  In general, he's an inefficient chucker who doesn't play defense.  His teammates don't like him.  But, as we've seen before and we just saw, he can go on hot streaks where he can take over a playoff series and can win games by himself.

Trae Young can win you two games, but he can also lose you four.

Very true.  The only caveat I'd add is, in the right series he can win a team four games, like when he carried the Hawks to the ECF.  He's just not a guy who can be counted on to do so.

[Celtics2021]

I don't think we saw anything unexpected out of Trae Young.  As an every day player, he's probably around the 15th to 20th best player in the NBA.  In general, he's an inefficient chucker who doesn't play defense.  His teammates don't like him.  But, as we've seen before and we just saw, he can go on hot streaks where he can take over a playoff series and can win games by himself.

Trae Young can win you two games, but he can also lose you four.

Very true.  The only caveat I'd add is, in the right series he can win a team four games, like when he carried the Hawks to the ECF.  He's just not a guy who can be counted on to do so.

For sure.  If he goes on heaters for four games instead of two in a series, the Hawks can win.  His shots are so ridiculous that they don't fall every night, however.  I'm glad to have that chaos in the rear-view mirror.