Where is Grant Williams' Game At?

[Birdman]

Grant be playing for another team next season

[cman88]

I think people need to cool for this round. The hawks are a bad matchup for grant who is undersized. Now it is concerning that he didn't play at all in a game where the Celtics were up 30.

BUT we are going to need him if we face the Bucks again. He defends giannis very well. Where timelord actually struggles.

[SHAQATTACK]

Who ?

[timpiker]

At the beginning of the season most of us were arguing his next contract could be about $15M to $20M a year.  Today, I'd be surprised if he was offered more than $5M by any team in the league.

[Moranis]

Grant is, and always has been, a fairly easily replaceable bench rotation level player.  Nothing has changed.  Sometimes those guys can have really impactful games (like game 7 against Milwaukee last year), but that doesn't mean they are something more than an easily replaceable bench player (see games 5 and 6 against Milwaukee last year when in over 58 minutes he scored a total of 2 points, with 7 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals, 3 turnovers, and 9 fouls).  Grant is at his best in the 8th man type position on a team.  Those guys can give you a lot of quality minutes over the course of a season, but they aren't worth paying big money for.  I think most teams know this, which is why I never thought Grant was going to get more than the MLE. 

[Celtics2021]

I may be wrong but I definitely think he can get the MLE but not much more unless he gets lucky and has multiple bad teams vying for his services thinking they can get a reliable starter for 13-14 per year.  Grant IMO really regressed this year with his D.  I just can't see him being resigned if JB makes an All NBA team and extends at the max.  The C's needs some young cheap rotational players that can do what Grant does with those limited minutes.  I also think that with Gallo signed for next year and Muscala they let Grant walk and maybe to a sign and trade if it doesn't hard cap them (not sure of the S&T rules) to get a TPE to use at the deadline.

Based on what we’ve heard from the CBA negotiations, a 4-year MLE will come out to a little above $53 million, or $13.3 million per year.  Maybe that will change once the full deal is released, but people need to realize that Grant’s $15 million contract demands are only marginally above the MLE that most think he will get.

So he’s likely not going to get $15-20M per year.

I think he will.  I’ll bet you 100 Tommy Points he either signs a deal worth at least $15 million per year this summer, or takes the QO and gets such a deal next summer.

Sure. I will take that bet.

Please give Goldstar and Roy 100 of my TPs.

[Vermont Green]

I am resurrecting this thread now that Grant is gone.  Moranis commented a couple above that:

Grant is, and always has been, a fairly easily replaceable bench rotation level player.

In my mind, Grant has been replaced, by Oshae Brissett.  Brissett is 6'-7", with long arms.  Grant is 6'-6" with average arms but Grant is thicker.  Grant is 6 months younger.  I did a Statshead comparison for the last 3 seasons, things are pretty close:

https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=willigr01&p1yrfrom=2021&p1yrto=2023&player_id2=brissos01&p2yrfrom=2021&p2yrto=2023

There really is not that much difference statistically.  Brissett scores a little more (8.1 to 7.0) and rebounds a little more (4.5 to 3.7), Grant gets more assists (1.2 to 0.9) but also more turnovers (0.9 to 0.6).  Grant has more minutes so if you look at per36, Brissett improves even a little bit more.  Grant scores more efficiently (efg% 0.574 to 0.498), and is better from 3 (39.7% to 34.5%).  Defensively, I think Brissett is pretty good and pretty versatile.  He probably won't be able to cover some of the bigs that Grant was able to (at least serviceably) but Brissett can cover some bigger wings where Grant really couldn't.

I also looked at some film and I would say that the big difference is that Brissett cuts and moves without the ball more.  He gets a lot of his points by being the cutter and getting a pass from someone else.  Grant on offense stands in the corner and is a legit threat to hit open corner 3s, but you don't see him cutting or running the floor very often.

To me, the cutter vs. the 3-point shooter is the interesting contrast.  Is this an indication that the Celtics will try to cut more vs. stand and look for 3s (at least have some better personnel for that)?  If this is the case, I think it will be a good thing.  My conclusion is that Brissett is going to be a solid and reliable bench player, maybe not quite as good as Grant, but he does appear for now to be Grant's replacement.

I have seen a lot of posts that are pretty critical of the Celtics not signing Grant.  I think the cost got way too high.  Pretty close to the $15M-$20M prediction that cost Celtics2021 100 Tommy Points, but $53M for 4 years is still too much for Grant, a player that even someone as critical as Moranis has been, admits is "easily replaceable". 

[Ed Monix]

I can’t understand why no one in the media has questioned how Celtics gave up the main asset in the ‘Grant Williams trade’, yet got a poultry return of second round picks. Yet San Antonio got a solid role player in Reggie Bullock (on an expiring deal), AND an unprotected Dallas 2030 pick.

Highway robbery (again) due to Mr Grousbeck’s cheapness.

[obnoxiousmime]

I can’t understand why no one in the media has questioned how Celtics gave up the main asset in the ‘Grant Williams trade’, yet got a poultry return of second round picks. Yet San Antonio got a solid role player in Reggie Bullock (on an expiring deal), AND an unprotected Dallas 2030 pick.

Highway robbery (again) due to Mr Grousbeck’s cheapness.

Haha, "poultry return." Hey, chickens don't count for tax purposes in the new CBA.

[Vermont Green]

I can’t understand why no one in the media has questioned how Celtics gave up the main asset in the ‘Grant Williams trade’, yet got a poultry return of second round picks. Yet San Antonio got a solid role player in Reggie Bullock (on an expiring deal), AND an unprotected Dallas 2030 pick.

Highway robbery (again) due to Mr Grousbeck’s cheapness.

Not sure I totally follow.  You wanted the Celtics to take Bullock and the Dallas first, like SAS did?  Keep in mind that SAS sent out 3 seconds as I understand it, two to DAL and one to BOS.  So you would rather take Bullock and a DAL first and send out Grant plus 3-seconds over getting 2-seconds and a TPE?

I don't see any highway robbery here.  Now if we don't use the TPE, I am sure there will be a chorus of critical posts but I have no interest in Reggie Bullock.  He is so valuable that SAS had to attach a first round pick to him to dump him (although they did get 2 seconds back).  And you want the Celtics to take him so we have to attach picks to dump him later?

[Celtics2021]

I can’t understand why no one in the media has questioned how Celtics gave up the main asset in the ‘Grant Williams trade’, yet got a poultry return of second round picks. Yet San Antonio got a solid role player in Reggie Bullock (on an expiring deal), AND an unprotected Dallas 2030 pick.

Highway robbery (again) due to Mr Grousbeck’s cheapness.

Not sure I totally follow.  You wanted the Celtics to take Bullock and the Dallas first, like SAS did?  Keep in mind that SAS sent out 3 seconds as I understand it, two to DAL and one to BOS.  So you would rather take Bullock and a DAL first and send out Grant plus 3-seconds over getting 2-seconds and a TPE?

I don't see any highway robbery here.  Now if we don't use the TPE, I am sure there will be a chorus of critical posts but I have no interest in Reggie Bullock.  He is so valuable that SAS had to attach a first round pick to him to dump him (although they did get 2 seconds back).  And you want the Celtics to take him so we have to attach picks to dump him later?

San Antonio didn’t even get a straight up first.  They got a swap.

Also, Grant’s salary didn’t match for Bullock, so it’s literally a trade the Celtics couldn’t have made if they had wanted to.  They’d have to have found a third team willing to take on additional salary, which would have cost another 2nd.

[ChillyWilly]

Unathletic, under sized, avg wingspan, plays below the rim, no ability to create for himself or others, poor rebounder, poor positioning, doesnt move well without the ball, not a good passer. Corner 3 and some thick boy defense thats overrated.

His limited skill set will work great in Dallas since he'll only ever touch the ball when he's corner 3ing and will need to cover his guy and Lukas since he just watches on defense.

[SHAQATTACK]

Sum where in TX ?

[Vermont Green]

I can’t understand why no one in the media has questioned how Celtics gave up the main asset in the ‘Grant Williams trade’, yet got a poultry return of second round picks. Yet San Antonio got a solid role player in Reggie Bullock (on an expiring deal), AND an unprotected Dallas 2030 pick.

Highway robbery (again) due to Mr Grousbeck’s cheapness.

Not sure I totally follow.  You wanted the Celtics to take Bullock and the Dallas first, like SAS did?  Keep in mind that SAS sent out 3 seconds as I understand it, two to DAL and one to BOS.  So you would rather take Bullock and a DAL first and send out Grant plus 3-seconds over getting 2-seconds and a TPE?

I don't see any highway robbery here.  Now if we don't use the TPE, I am sure there will be a chorus of critical posts but I have no interest in Reggie Bullock.  He is so valuable that SAS had to attach a first round pick to him to dump him (although they did get 2 seconds back).  And you want the Celtics to take him so we have to attach picks to dump him later?

San Antonio didn’t even get a straight up first.  They got a swap.

Also, Grant’s salary didn’t match for Bullock, so it’s literally a trade the Celtics couldn’t have made if they had wanted to.  They’d have to have found a third team willing to take on additional salary, which would have cost another 2nd.

That is a good point, Grant would be a base year compensation player so we can only take back 50% of his salary, not enough to cover Bullock anyway.  Any you are also right (as usual) about the pick swap.  I thought I had seen it was originally reported as pick but all it is is a swap in 2030.

[Vermont Green]

Sum where in TX ?

Exactly.  He got his money, good for him, but now he is going to be on a team that is likely to be a chemistry train wreck.  I can't imagine it is going to be a good place to play with Kyrie and Luka and all the drama that is no doubt going to surround them.  Grant will likely get more opportunity, maybe even start, but I don't see Grant as having the talent to make a leap in that role.