How much upside does Joe have?

[SHAQATTACK]

Not feeling he can bring a title to Boston

Hope I m wrong.

[LilRip]

I’m still not a fan, but I guess we will see how many times he forgets Derrick White is on his bench in the playoffs, or how many terrible plays he designs after timeouts.

Yeah, but you can’t call terrible ATOs if you don’t call timeouts!

This guy gets it!

[Vermont Green]

57 wins, 2nd best record in the league, 2nd in offense & 3rd in defense (according to basketball-reference). It's a good resume and when you take into consideration how this season started for Mazulla, I don't think there's anything more you could've reasonably asked for from the regular season.

Agreed, I don't either.

Problem being - that's not the point.

The point is that while he may have exceeded expectations in the regular season, he has also clearly demonstrated that he is not good enough to win the four playoff series in a row required to claim a title. Each round gets that much tougher than the previous one. Opponents now have plenty of time to focus just on your team and to create strategies to take advantage of your weaknesses.

I simply don't see Joe being nearly good enough to win that title and this isn't a training-wheels franchise.
We have now entered our title window clock. Fortunately, we are mostly young and should have a wide window of opportunity.

But Mazzulla is not the answer ....... and I personally do not think Brad Stevens is either.
Enough with the college guys - get some NBA-level personnel in the front office and on the coaching staff and let's hang some banners !!

Has he "clearly demonstrated" that?  I would say at worst, the jury is still out.  How can you conclude anything about his ability to coach this team through the playoffs?  It may turn out that he does stumble in the playoffs but that has not been "clearly demonstrated" at this point.  What has been clearly demonstrated is that he has coached this team well enough to have the second best record and to be one of the clear favorites to win the title.  And they have squished most or all of the top teams along the way in head to head match ups.

Now the playoffs will be different, I understand that.  I am not saying he won't stumble along the way in the playoffs, but let's give him a chance before we simply write him off as not good enough to coach in the playoffs.  Maybe actually see how a few series go.

And remember the immortal words of Terry Francona (and probably others), coaches get too much credit when teams win and too much blame when they lose.  I think this is going to apply here.  It is going to be more about how the players actually play than how the players are coached.

[bdm860]

And remember the immortal words of Terry Francona (and probably others), coaches get too much credit when teams win and too much blame when they lose.  I think this is going to apply here.  It is going to be more about how the players actually play than how the players are coached.

This season will be the opposite, I think there's a significant enough portion of the fan base that will leave the season with one of two conclusions:

If the Celtics win a title: "It was all the players, Joe lucked into a great situation.  Let's be real, the team went to the Finals last year, added Brogdon without losing anybody, and guys like Tatum/Brown/White/both Williams/Hauser/Pritchard all improved via natural progression.  It had nothing to do with coaching."  Bonus points if a major player on an opponent gets injured along the way.


If the Celtics don't win a title, regardless of the round they go out: "It was all because of Joe's coaching. He wasn't qualified and just got thrust into the role after the Udoka situation because Hardy already left.  How do you take an improved Finals team and not win it all?  Really though, I blame management, every other team would have just swept the Udoka situation under the rug and kept him as coach."

[Vermont Green]

And remember the immortal words of Terry Francona (and probably others), coaches get too much credit when teams win and too much blame when they lose.  I think this is going to apply here.  It is going to be more about how the players actually play than how the players are coached.

This season will be the opposite, I think there's a significant enough portion of the fan base that will leave the season with one of two conclusions:

If the Celtics win a title: "It was all the players, Joe lucked into a great situation.  Let's be real, the team went to the Finals last year, added Brogdon without losing anybody, and guys like Tatum/Brown/White/both Williams/Hauser/Pritchard all improved via natural progression.  It had nothing to do with coaching."  Bonus points if a major player on an opponent gets injured along the way.


If the Celtics don't win a title, regardless of the round they go out: "It was all because of Joe's coaching. He wasn't qualified and just got thrust into the role after the Udoka situation because Hardy already left.  How do you take an improved Finals team and not win it all?  Really though, I blame management, every other team would have just swept the Udoka situation under the rug and kept him as coach."

You are probably right.  Francona's axiom will probably only hold half true, at least with many serious Celtics fans.  But don't you think that the general fandom and media will have Mazzulla as a wonderboy if we win the title?  You are probably right about many of the more serious fans but if we win a title, I think Joe is going to get plenty of general attention and accolades. 

[Goldstar88]

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
“I just always liked Joe’s work ethic, his focus, his intelligence,” Ainge said. “I feel like Joe is one of those guys — one way that I’ve always measured greatness is how much a person can learn from mistakes they make. Joe’s going to learn from his mistakes, just like Will Hardy learns from his mistakes quickly. … The coaches that learn and move on, they become the legendary coaches.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

It's not that he doesn't learn from mistakes at times, I'm sure he does.

My problem with Mazzulla is the bad basketball that he considers to be good basketball and, thus, doesn't see a need to change.
His offense has been maddening. We played a beautiful brand of offensive basketball the first quarter of the season - off-ball movement, off-ball screening, moving the ball inside and out with the pass and not with the dribble, constantly pushing the pace.

Slowly, it has ground down into occasional glimpses of the early season offense, but predominately having Tatum or Smart walk the ball up, maybe some movement around the 3-point line that ends with Tatum or Brown calling for a screener or simply going into their multiple foot & dribble fakes followed by a step back 3 or a drive to the basket while the rest of the team stands and watches.

We have awful shot selection and jack up way too many 3's and Joe is fine with it, even to the point of criticizing the team when they don't put up enough 3's to suit him. He sees nothing to be learned from playing this way - other than to shoot more 3's.

I have a feeling this was more the players effort than mazullas coaching or changing the offense. It's the same with the defense.

As soon as we played a good team then all of a sudden ball movement improved the defense improved. They got bored with the regular season and unfortunately let the #1 seed slip away.

Hopefully they can keep it on. And don't do the Jekyll Hyde they did in last year's playoffs "one game good, one game bad"

100%. Not saying that Joe was perfect as a coach, he’s clearly still learning and has admitted as much. At the end of the day though, the players are the ones on the court deciding games. I think that overall, Joe did a better job coaching during the regular season than Ime did last year.

[SparzWizard]

I can't believe this guy is a COTY finalist 

That being said, Mike Brown deserves the award. How he turned that Kings team around, man, phenomenal.

[cman88]

I can't believe this guy is a COTY finalist 

That being said, Mike Brown deserves the award. How he turned that Kings team around, man, phenomenal.

I mean if your team has the 2nd best record in the NBA and you are #2 in offense/#2 in defense thats pretty good.

Its only people on this board who are down on Mazulla. Now

[Goldstar88]

I can't believe this guy is a COTY finalist 

That being said, Mike Brown deserves the award. How he turned that Kings team around, man, phenomenal.

I mean if your team has the 2nd best record in the NBA and you are #2 in offense/#2 in defense thats pretty good.

Its only people on this board who are down on Mazulla. Now

Yep.

[Roy H.]

I can't believe this guy is a COTY finalist 

That being said, Mike Brown deserves the award. How he turned that Kings team around, man, phenomenal.

I mean if your team has the 2nd best record in the NBA and you are #2 in offense/#2 in defense thats pretty good.

Its only people on this board who are down on Mazulla. Now

Yep.

Well, he’s 0-0 in the playoffs.  He’s got a clean slate.  We’ll see if he can improve on the results of last season’s rookie coach.  I’m skeptical— I consider him a bottom 10 coach — but the playoffs are what counts.

[SHAQATTACK]

I can't believe this guy is a COTY finalist 

That being said, Mike Brown deserves the award. How he turned that Kings team around, man, phenomenal.

I mean if your team has the 2nd best record in the NBA and you are #2 in offense/#2 in defense thats pretty good.

Its only people on this board who are down on Mazulla. Now

Yep.

Well, he’s 0-0 in the playoffs.  He’s got a clean slate.  We’ll see if he can improve on the results of last season’s rookie coach.  I’m skeptical— I consider him a bottom 10 coach — but the playoffs are what counts.

Your Jinx worked perfect today 

[Roy H.]

Mazzulla says he’s not concerned at all by Atlanta’s second half run “It’s actually good that happened, that we felt that”

He smirked while saying “I’m very concerned.”

Joe Mazzulla actually scoffed at the question of whether he was concerned at all with losing the lead.

I hope he’s taking the lack of intensity more seriously when talking with the team.  I’m happy about the win, but I miss Ime’s edge holding players accountable.

[gouki88]

Mazzulla says he’s not concerned at all by Atlanta’s second half run “It’s actually good that happened, that we felt that”

He smirked while saying “I’m very concerned.”

Joe Mazzulla actually scoffed at the question of whether he was concerned at all with losing the lead.

I hope he’s taking the lack of intensity more seriously when talking with the team.  I’m happy about the win, but I miss Ime’s edge holding players accountable.

Mazz does seem to treat the media with a certain degree of contempt

[ozgod]

I can't believe this guy is a COTY finalist 

That being said, Mike Brown deserves the award. How he turned that Kings team around, man, phenomenal.

I mean if your team has the 2nd best record in the NBA and you are #2 in offense/#2 in defense thats pretty good.

Its only people on this board who are down on Mazulla. Now

I think it's because as fans that are much more emotionally tied to the team, we tend to overlook the good and focus on the bad. So even if the team won 57 games, we focus on the bad ones among the 25 lost. If the team dominated a game in the first half but played poorly in the second half, we focus on the second half even if we won. (I'm sure if we played poorly in the 1nd half but turned it around and played well in the 2nd people wouldn't be so mad). We love stories of recovery and overcoming adversity - not so much cruising and then having to fight off a spirited comeback.

Each coach in the NBA has its own fans as its harshes critics. Not to say that Mazz doesn't deserve criticism, he certainly does. I feel it's just magnified a little because we as fans are anxious for this team to win. Ultimately that's what he will be judged on - winning an NBA championship. Probably not fair given he's a first year coach who took over in difficult circumstances but life isn't always fair 

[ozgod]

Mazzulla says he’s not concerned at all by Atlanta’s second half run “It’s actually good that happened, that we felt that”

He smirked while saying “I’m very concerned.”

Joe Mazzulla actually scoffed at the question of whether he was concerned at all with losing the lead.

I hope he’s taking the lack of intensity more seriously when talking with the team.  I’m happy about the win, but I miss Ime’s edge holding players accountable.

Mazz does seem to treat the media with a certain degree of contempt

Maybe it's because I'm still dosed up on painkillers after my surgery but I actually agree with him on the Atlanta run - this team, above everything, needs to learn to take teams and games seriously, especially when they are miles better than their opponent. The No1 thing that everyone has been critical of the Cs this year has been that they let go of the rope. I'd much rather they realize that they can't do this in the playoffs, especially against teams like Philly and Milwaukee. It's clearly been something that's affected them throughout the regular season, losing to mediocre teams. I'm sure it's hard to maintain concentration and intensity when you are leading by 30 but these situations show that any team can make a run on you and make things uncomfortable. If their sphincters tightened up a little bit because of the runs then it's all for the better