Is this team overrated?

[scaryjerry]

The Celtics set a lofty standard early in the season, one they’ve struggled to maintain. Boston posted a 21-5 record to start the year and the team’s offense was on a historic pace.

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Since then? Boston's offense ranks 16th in the NBA. So despite having the fourth-best winning percentage in the league since December 10 -- only the Nuggets, 76ers, and Bucks have been better -- there’s a general uneasiness as the team hasn’t been able to quite sustain its early-season swagger.

We can easily dismiss the New York stumble. The Celtics were playing without All-Star Jaylen Brown, got a rough shooting night from a frustrated Jayson Tatum (and just about everyone else), and lost to a team playing some of its most inspired ball of the year.

The bigger question is whether Boston’s somewhat uneven play over the past two-plus months is the result of typical midseason malaise and injury woes, or part of a more concerning trend.

https://sports.yahoo.com/celtics-enduring-midseason-malaise-something-180000859.html

Since the extremely hot start, we're 23-13.  That's still very good, a .639 winning percentage.  Over 82 games, that's a 52.4 win pace.  So, even when the offense is mediocre, and with some injuries to important players, we're playing pretty well.  And, we're very likely to end up as the #2 seed or better.

But, it's very hard not to compare this year's second half to last year's team.  We are definitely not playing as well, and that regular season momentum was presumably an important factor going into the playoffs.  Is there any way to get something like that going?  And if not, can we at least fix the offense?

Hate to keep bringing this up (not really), but the major difference between how  this team played during its dominant streak last season and this was its suffocating, intimidating defense, and the ring leader of that defense was Rob Williams.  Once he got injured in the Minnesota game last season, our defensive domination was never the same level.  And it has yet to return to that level.

Ryan Bernardoni (@dangercart) tweeted about Rob's decline yesterday.  Rob now looks like a standard "athletic rolling big man" and not "oh my god what is this thing."

https://twitter.com/dangercart/status/1630596104524816386?s=20

Couldn’t agree more.
Rob Williams is a shell of his former self and he was an enormous factor in last years team and we probably have a dominant championship run if he never gets hurt.

[PAOBoston]

This team plays soft offensively and defensively.

[Vermont Green]

Overrated or underachieving? 

[Celtics4ever]

We play to the level of our opponents, coast way too much!

[Donoghus]

We play to the level of our opponents, coast way too much!

This.

[Phantom255x]

If we let NYK beat us again tomorrow night at home, then I'll be panicking

[celticsclay]

I don't think the team's overrated unless you bought into the "historic" feats (like when we had stretches where we were the best offense in history lol). But I mean, we can still beat a ton of teams and we're still pretty solidly a Top-2 or 3 team in the league (with the Bucks and Nuggets; maybe Suns but I'll wait to see how it looks with KD first before putting them there).

I do agree with the others though, whether it's injuries or personal reasons, we've had guys in and out of the lineup often and I think it's starting to affect us. I think Mazz and the team have an idea as to what their ideal lineups/rotations are but the problem is, they haven't really played with their "ideal Starting 5" for most of the season and even Monday, Jaylen was out so they couldn't.

They do need to build some of that chemistry and experience in the final 20 ish games. So there'll be some highs and lows. It just sucks though that MIL has won 15 straight lately...

This is where the lack of a bench has been a problem.  There really were 4 or 5 useless spots on the bench to start the year (Gallo, Jackson, Vonleh, Rob (during injury), and then you probably don't need both Kornet and Griffin), and that is just too many.  It forced the regulars to play more, which led in part to the great offense, but also wore them down and made the injuries come and come faster and last longer.  The C's needed more players on the bench that could play, which is why I keep harping on the missed opportunity of the big TPE or even not going after established vets on minimum deals.  Had the team even acquired someone like Duncan Robinson, who is vastly overpaid, he could have filled a role.  Sign Carmelo and Dwight or Whiteside, they can fill a role.  If the attitude on the vet minimum guys is a problem, you cut your losses and cut them, but the team needed guys that could give you 10 minutes and not kill you. 

Rob is back now.  We've added Muscala.  The depth is better now, but we are still feeling the effects of the wasted spots on the roster to start the year, and we still don't have Gallo, we still have an open roster spot, and we still don't need both Kornet and Griffin.  They need to fill the open spot with someone that can actually play.

Can you please please stop with the duncan Robinson stuff? It’s embarrassing as a Celtics fan to read on this forum. He is shooting 28% from 3. He is awful defensively. He is still owed almost 60 million and somehow has a player option for two years from now. It would be a mind blowingly bad move to get him. The worst I can really imagine. We have hauser shooting 40% from 3 and we can’t even always find enough minutes for him. Your overall premise is not wrong, and I would have been happy with Howard or melo your other examples. But please no more duncan Robinson. Heat fans will literally laugh at us reading this.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

I find it interesting that former professional basketball players on TV think that we have one of the deepest teams in the league, yet blog boys think that we’re missing depth. I wonder who is right?

[celticsclay]

I find it interesting that former professional basketball players on TV think that we have one of the deepest teams in the league, yet blog boys think that we’re missing depth. I wonder who is right?

Tp for blog boys lol

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

I find it interesting that former professional basketball players on TV think that we have one of the deepest teams in the league, yet blog boys think that we’re missing depth. I wonder who is right?

Tp for blog boys lol

KD used that term when describing the less educated fans that are looking to create a hot take. I think it fits.

[Moranis]

I find it interesting that former professional basketball players on TV think that we have one of the deepest teams in the league, yet blog boys think that we’re missing depth. I wonder who is right?

Sure if everyone is healthy and playing playoff minutes the depth is fine, but everyone isn't healthy and they shouldn't be playing playoff type minutes all season long.  That is where the depth comes into play.

And to be clear, I said the depth was better now and was most focused at the beginning of the year when this was 1/3 of the roster

Gallo - injured
Rob - injured
Vonleh
Jackson
Griffin

Then we had Hauser and Kornet who were either inexperienced or not very good

The top 8 was very good Smart, White, Brogdon, Tatum, Brown, Horford, Grant, and Pritchard, but that is a small team with a lot of guys that get hurt a lot.  When they were healthy to start the year, the offense was clicking, but they were playing big minutes and were small, both of which, in my view contributed to the wrath of injuries the team has now sustained and when 1/3 of your roster is basically worthless, it adds up.

The team has a lot more depth now that Rob is back and Muscala has replaced Jackson (and Hauser has proved capable as a young guy).  There is still an open roster spot though, Gallo is still hurt, and you still don't need both Griffin and Kornet.  If the team is healthy when the playoffs start, they have enough depth, but the depth is about getting to the playoffs healthy and there were certainly times in this season where the lack of depth (due to players being out) was problematic.

[celticsclay]

I find it interesting that former professional basketball players on TV think that we have one of the deepest teams in the league, yet blog boys think that we’re missing depth. I wonder who is right?

Sure if everyone is healthy and playing playoff minutes the depth is fine, but everyone isn't healthy and they shouldn't be playing playoff type minutes all season long.  That is where the depth comes into play.

And to be clear, I said the depth was better now and was most focused at the beginning of the year when this was 1/3 of the roster

Gallo - injured
Rob - injured
Vonleh
Jackson
Griffin

Then we had Hauser and Kornet who were either inexperienced or not very good

The top 8 was very good Smart, White, Brogdon, Tatum, Brown, Horford, Grant, and Pritchard, but that is a small team with a lot of guys that get hurt a lot.  When they were healthy to start the year, the offense was clicking, but they were playing big minutes and were small, both of which, in my view contributed to the wrath of injuries the team has now sustained and when 1/3 of your roster is basically worthless, it adds up.

The team has a lot more depth now that Rob is back and Muscala has replaced Jackson (and Hauser has proved capable as a young guy).  There is still an open roster spot though, Gallo is still hurt, and you still don't need both Griffin and Kornet.  If the team is healthy when the playoffs start, they have enough depth, but the depth is about getting to the playoffs healthy and there were certainly times in this season where the lack of depth (due to players being out) was problematic.

Thank you for dropping the duncan Robinson. That would be such a nightmare to bail out the heat like that then watch jaylen brown sign there. Just can’t do stuff like that.

Of these options to replace one of kornet or Blake in playoffs
Dwight
Cousins
Whiteside

Scoring: melo, Gary Clark

Defense: tony snell

[Phantom255x]

I don't think the team's overrated unless you bought into the "historic" feats (like when we had stretches where we were the best offense in history lol). But I mean, we can still beat a ton of teams and we're still pretty solidly a Top-2 or 3 team in the league (with the Bucks and Nuggets; maybe Suns but I'll wait to see how it looks with KD first before putting them there).

I do agree with the others though, whether it's injuries or personal reasons, we've had guys in and out of the lineup often and I think it's starting to affect us. I think Mazz and the team have an idea as to what their ideal lineups/rotations are but the problem is, they haven't really played with their "ideal Starting 5" for most of the season and even Monday, Jaylen was out so they couldn't.

They do need to build some of that chemistry and experience in the final 20 ish games. So there'll be some highs and lows. It just sucks though that MIL has won 15 straight lately...

This is where the lack of a bench has been a problem.  There really were 4 or 5 useless spots on the bench to start the year (Gallo, Jackson, Vonleh, Rob (during injury), and then you probably don't need both Kornet and Griffin), and that is just too many.  It forced the regulars to play more, which led in part to the great offense, but also wore them down and made the injuries come and come faster and last longer.  The C's needed more players on the bench that could play, which is why I keep harping on the missed opportunity of the big TPE or even not going after established vets on minimum deals.  Had the team even acquired someone like Duncan Robinson, who is vastly overpaid, he could have filled a role.  Sign Carmelo and Dwight or Whiteside, they can fill a role.  If the attitude on the vet minimum guys is a problem, you cut your losses and cut them, but the team needed guys that could give you 10 minutes and not kill you. 

Rob is back now.  We've added Muscala.  The depth is better now, but we are still feeling the effects of the wasted spots on the roster to start the year, and we still don't have Gallo, we still have an open roster spot, and we still don't need both Kornet and Griffin.  They need to fill the open spot with someone that can actually play.

Can you please please stop with the duncan Robinson stuff? It’s embarrassing as a Celtics fan to read on this forum. He is shooting 28% from 3. He is awful defensively. He is still owed almost 60 million and somehow has a player option for two years from now. It would be a mind blowingly bad move to get him. The worst I can really imagine. We have hauser shooting 40% from 3 and we can’t even always find enough minutes for him. Your overall premise is not wrong, and I would have been happy with Howard or melo your other examples. But please no more duncan Robinson. Heat fans will literally laugh at us reading this.

Gonna be honest, I forgot Duncan Robinson even existed lol. Still annoys the hell out of me he was just torching us in the bubble (2020) but has done nada since. I do vaguely remember some saying we should be wary of him in last year's series against MIA, but he barely played and even when he did he looked awful (and was abused on defense constantly)

[Csfan1984]

The offense was overrated surely but they still pretty good. They get cold a lot less than last year. The defense still isn't high level which worries me.

[celticsclay]

I don't think the team's overrated unless you bought into the "historic" feats (like when we had stretches where we were the best offense in history lol). But I mean, we can still beat a ton of teams and we're still pretty solidly a Top-2 or 3 team in the league (with the Bucks and Nuggets; maybe Suns but I'll wait to see how it looks with KD first before putting them there).

I do agree with the others though, whether it's injuries or personal reasons, we've had guys in and out of the lineup often and I think it's starting to affect us. I think Mazz and the team have an idea as to what their ideal lineups/rotations are but the problem is, they haven't really played with their "ideal Starting 5" for most of the season and even Monday, Jaylen was out so they couldn't.

They do need to build some of that chemistry and experience in the final 20 ish games. So there'll be some highs and lows. It just sucks though that MIL has won 15 straight lately...

This is where the lack of a bench has been a problem.  There really were 4 or 5 useless spots on the bench to start the year (Gallo, Jackson, Vonleh, Rob (during injury), and then you probably don't need both Kornet and Griffin), and that is just too many.  It forced the regulars to play more, which led in part to the great offense, but also wore them down and made the injuries come and come faster and last longer.  The C's needed more players on the bench that could play, which is why I keep harping on the missed opportunity of the big TPE or even not going after established vets on minimum deals.  Had the team even acquired someone like Duncan Robinson, who is vastly overpaid, he could have filled a role.  Sign Carmelo and Dwight or Whiteside, they can fill a role.  If the attitude on the vet minimum guys is a problem, you cut your losses and cut them, but the team needed guys that could give you 10 minutes and not kill you. 

Rob is back now.  We've added Muscala.  The depth is better now, but we are still feeling the effects of the wasted spots on the roster to start the year, and we still don't have Gallo, we still have an open roster spot, and we still don't need both Kornet and Griffin.  They need to fill the open spot with someone that can actually play.

Can you please please stop with the duncan Robinson stuff? It’s embarrassing as a Celtics fan to read on this forum. He is shooting 28% from 3. He is awful defensively. He is still owed almost 60 million and somehow has a player option for two years from now. It would be a mind blowingly bad move to get him. The worst I can really imagine. We have hauser shooting 40% from 3 and we can’t even always find enough minutes for him. Your overall premise is not wrong, and I would have been happy with Howard or melo your other examples. But please no more duncan Robinson. Heat fans will literally laugh at us reading this.

Gonna be honest, I forgot Duncan Robinson even existed lol. Still annoys the hell out of me he was just torching us in the bubble (2020) but has done nada since. I do vaguely remember some saying we should be wary of him in last year's series against MIA, but he barely played and even when he did he looked awful (and was abused on defense constantly)

Yeah. I mean this is insane laughable idea which is why I asked Mo to have a little decorum and drop it at this point. He is a lousy defender that has very low playmaking ability, doesn’t rebound particularly well and his only skill, shooting, he has been one of the worst at in the entire nba for a high volume shooter. I don’t really think there is much of an argument that he is on the worst contract in the nba and is owed 60 million over the next three years. There are about 45 guys around the nba that are good shooters and nothing else that can be had for less than 5 million, let alone 20. Even a guy he also mentioned in Carmelo shot way better last year than duncan is doing right now and he can actually create his own shot a bit. Our own hauser is significantly outplaying him right now on a rock bottom salary. On top of that we are helping a rival in our conference get out of salary disaster when a lot of free agents want to sign there whenever they have cap space. It would be the most disasterous trade for our franchise since vin baker.