Marcus or White?

[Csfan1984]

Not sure about real numbers but I think combinations breakdown as
White > Smart when working off Tatum and Grant.
Smart > White when working off Brown and TL.
Both even with Al and Brogdon.

At least based on ball movement and getting guys the ball in their spots. Both are pretty good in the right setup.


A healthy rested Smart is usually very solid so hope he doesn't rush back. Let White, PP and Brogdon handle things and don't worry about their success.


Depending on what you get is who I prefer staying on team if there was a trade.

[dannyboy35]

I saw this in last night's game thread, and I thought it was worthy of broader discussion:
 

Not sure it’s been said earlier, but if it hasn’t… Derrick White should start and finish over Marcus.

There are multiple questions packed in there.  Should White start?  Should White finish?  Should he be doing either/both over Marcus?

   If personality wasn’t an issue I’d definitely prefer White finishing if I’m picking one of the two but I think Smart would become a cancer.

[dannyboy35]

I’d have white and Brogdon finishing over a Marcus. I think they’re both better players but it would be a serious problem in my opinion

[todd_days_41]

I think that the only fair solution is to petition the NBA to allow us to have six players on the floor in the fourth quarter.

"Hey Coleman! What should we do about lunch -- the lobster or da cracked crab?!"

"What do you think?"

"Can't we have both?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFmkhLzTAPc

[Ed Monix]

PG Smart
SG White
SF Brown
PF Tatum
C  Williams III

[jpotter33]

Yeah, I think others have hit it on the head regarding short memories.

I think a lot of this has to do with an increased scoring/volume load that White has had with the injuries. If you need more scoring and volume-based work, White is your guy, particularly because he’s better at getting into the paint with his speed.

But I think Smart is clearly better suited when we’re fully healthy. Beyond the defensive upgrade, I think he’s better with playmaking with multiple stars.

That said, I do think we could consider more small starting lineups with both of them out there against certain matchups.

[gouki88]

Our offence is much better when Smart plays.

[droopdog7]

Funny, I was just thinking about that thread bemoaning the White trade and what we gave up.  Not going to revive it of course. 

Anyway, I know this isn't the question but I think (have thought) that White is the best of the three guards.  He just rarely makes mistakes, it's crazy. 

I don't really care who starts but who finishes will be interesting.  I suspect it will continue to be Marcus but it's crazy to think that someone like Brogdon is third in this race.

[Vermont Green]

Below is sorted for the 4th quarter, filtered by >6 games.  That one line up is garbage time only but the other line ups are pretty representative.  Small sample size but the only line up that has a negative +/- is the line up without Smart (and the garbage time line up of course).  I am not suggesting this is conclusive, it definitely isn't.  Just food for thought.

                           LINEUPS                                               MIN   +/-
A. Horford - M. Smart - J. Brown - J. Tatum - G. Williams       49   +26
N. Vonleh - J. Jackson - L. Kornet - P. Pritchard - S. Hauser    25   -29
M. Smart - J. Brown - J. Tatum - D. White - G. Williams         21   +11
A. Horford - M. Smart - J. Brown - J. Tatum - D. White          21   +15
A. Horford - M. Smart - J. Brown - M. Brogdon - J. Tatum      21    +0
A. Horford - J. Brown - J. Tatum - D. White - G. Williams       20    -6

[Moranis]

Only Tatum has been more impactful to winning this year than White.  Smart is also a positive impact just not the same level.  That said, I think Smart starting with Brown, Tatum, Rob, and Horford makes the most sense with White being the 6th man coming in for Rob or Al.  Finishing lineup will depend on the game as I could easily see scenarios where White should be out there with Smart or in place of Smart.  Just depends on the opponent and how the game is going.

[Wretch]

3 player line up data.  looks like White is part of most of the better performing 3 player line ups.
LINEUPS   GP   MIN   +/-
A. Horford - J. Tatum - R. Williams III   17   11.6   6.4
J. Brown - J. Tatum - R. Williams III   13   11.2   5.3
J. Tatum - D. White - R. Williams III   20   12.1   4.9
A. Horford - D. White - R. Williams III   16   9.3   4.8
A. Horford - J. Tatum - D. White   41   16.7   4.5
A. Horford - J. Brown - R. Williams III   14   9   4.5
J. Brown - J. Tatum - D. White   41   16.7   4
A. Horford - J. Brown - J. Tatum   37   23.7   3.8
A. Horford - J. Brown - D. White   40   17.6   3.6
M. Smart - J. Tatum - D. White   38   14.3   3.4
M. Smart - J. Tatum - R. Williams III   11   10.7   3.4
A. Horford - M. Smart - D. White   31   14.5   3.3
M. Smart - J. Tatum - G. Williams   34   13.4   3.1
M. Smart - M. Brogdon - R. Williams III   11   3.1   2.8
M. Brogdon - J. Tatum - R. Williams III   16   9.5   2.7
J. Brown - D. White - R. Williams III   14   7.6   2.7
M. Smart - J. Brown - D. White   36   15.1   2.6
A. Horford - M. Smart - J. Tatum   28   23.1   2.5
J. Brown - J. Tatum - G. Williams   42   11.2   2.3
B. Griffin - J. Brown - G. Williams   12   6.4   2.3
A. Horford - M. Brogdon - R. Williams III   13   2.9   2.2
A. Horford - J. Tatum - G. Williams   36   11   2.1
M. Smart - R. Williams III - G. Williams   11   4.5   2.1
A. Horford - J. Brown - G. Williams   39   11.9   2

Link to full data.  I pulled the Griffen, Kornet, Hauser, Moose data since this was a guard based quesiton.

https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612738/lineups-traditional?GroupQuantity=3&dir=D&sort=PLUS_MINUS

[footey]

Derrick has been terrific. The team ball movement is at a premium of late, to his credit, but the absence of the Js may have something to do with that as well. Last night’s game was one of the most enjoyable to watch this season despite the OT loss.

[Neurotic Guy]

I saw this in last night's game thread, and I thought it was worthy of broader discussion:
 

Not sure it’s been said earlier, but if it hasn’t… Derrick White should start and finish over Marcus.

There are multiple questions packed in there.  Should White start?  Should White finish?  Should he be doing either/both over Marcus?

That was my comment in the game thread - and despite the comment I agree with Smart going back to the starting lineup when he returns (too risky a shakeup). But it’s hard to ignore how great White has been lately.  Shooting, decision-making, passing, energy, head in the game, consistent effort, defense.  The ball moves when White initiates the offense. I want Smart or White bringing the ball up, not Jays.   My comment was impacted by recency bias. White has been playing at all-star level recently.  His impact has led to open looks for self and others and slick passes at the hoop.  His D energy is contagious.

So, give me Derrick over Marcus in the long-term though I love Marcus.  In the short-term put Marcus back into the starting lineup and read the game to determine who finishes.  But get the ball in DWs hands to initiate offense (Marcus too) to increase movement and decrease the 15 second JT/JB double team ISOs.   

[Celtics2021]

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- I think the Celtics best starting lineup has both Smart and White in it, with Brown, Tatum, and whomever is feeling spryer of Al or Rob on a given evening.

[smokeablount]

DWhite has been Jrue-esque over the last 10 games:

21-5-6 on 49-43-88 shooting splits with elite defense.

If Rob doesn’t start looking better soon I would start White over him, and not to be a jerk, but do what is necessary to get Rob healthy so he can actually jump and do more than shoot/pass up layups on offense.