Poll

True or False: We Play Better as a Team Without JB

True
8 (16.7%)
False
40 (83.3%)

Total Members Voted: 48

Author Topic: True or False: We Play Better as a Team Without JB  (Read 14232 times)

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Re: True or False: We Play Better as a Team Without JB
« Reply #135 on: February 14, 2023, 06:12:03 PM »

Offline liam

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Re: True or False: We Play Better as a Team Without JB
« Reply #136 on: February 14, 2023, 08:48:23 PM »

Offline blink

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I guess we'll see tonight.


 8)

Touche’

LOL

well we look like we are playing better without Tatum or Brown against the Bucks, so lets get rid of both of them
might as well get rid of Smart, and Horford as well...we have DW and MM.

Re: True or False: We Play Better as a Team Without JB
« Reply #137 on: February 15, 2023, 01:16:29 AM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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I’m still not seeing any data that supports us playing better with Jaylen. That is disappointing. And there’s half a dozen others who agree with Moranis and I, so we are not alone. The data and the eye-test objectively support our argument that we play better without Jaylen and his habits/style. We are free of emotions and our green-tinted glasses that desperately wanted JT/JB to be the next MJ/Scottie. It’s just not happening like we hoped. We play better without Jaylen. Every non-Celtic fan who watches the Celtics will walk away with the same opinion. He’s incredibly over-valued by Celtics fans.

That said, we are clearly better with Jaylen than without Jaylen but only because (for now) we can trade him for someone else who will help us play even better than we do with or without Jaylen. But that is a very different thing that nobody is arguing here. And this is only true the same way it was true when we had Kyrie in 2018 (and we all know how that turned out when his contract ended—some of us do not want to see a repeat of that…).

Moranis has posted some data related to the past two years that support the argument. I challenge someone to post data that argues the opposite case, that we play better with Jaylen compared to without…

Re: True or False: We Play Better as a Team Without JB
« Reply #138 on: February 15, 2023, 01:21:50 AM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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I guess we'll see tonight.


 8)

Touche’

LOL

well we look like we are playing better without Tatum or Brown against the Bucks, so lets get rid of both of them
might as well get rid of Smart, and Horford as well...we have DW and MM.

If JT had played tonight but JB did not, we win without OT just like we won against Memphis.

If JB had played tonight but JT did not, we still lose except probably in regulation…

In your heart, you know we’re right…

Re: True or False: We Play Better as a Team Without JB
« Reply #139 on: February 15, 2023, 01:54:14 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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I guess we'll see tonight.


 8)

Touche’

LOL

well we look like we are playing better without Tatum or Brown against the Bucks, so lets get rid of both of them
might as well get rid of Smart, and Horford as well...we have DW and MM.

If JT had played tonight but JB did not, we win without OT just like we won against Memphis.

If JB had played tonight but JT did not, we still lose except probably in regulation…

In your heart, you know we’re right…

How many times you gonna say the same thing here? I’m just curious how many pages more we have to deal with bashing brown.

Re: True or False: We Play Better as a Team Without JB
« Reply #140 on: February 15, 2023, 01:57:46 AM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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When he makes his mind up, he's not being stopped,

Until he turns it over because his mind is writing checks his body cannot cash (seems to sometimes play like he’s Kobe, but he’s clearly not). Or he misses a pivotal free throw near the end of the game.
His handle remains his weakness and his knack for missing FT's at key times. But they're still a lot better with him than without him.

When will people understand it is not about Brown's "handle" ?
The guy dribbles and displays footwork and body control quite well.
He does not need to improve his ball handling.

The problem is that he dribbles into heavy defensive traffic when he shouldn't and he has never seemed to learn that it doesn't work.
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Re: True or False: We Play Better as a Team Without JB
« Reply #141 on: February 15, 2023, 02:03:37 AM »

Offline blink

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I guess we'll see tonight.


 8)

Touche’

LOL

well we look like we are playing better without Tatum or Brown against the Bucks, so lets get rid of both of them
might as well get rid of Smart, and Horford as well...we have DW and MM.

If JT had played tonight but JB did not, we win without OT just like we won against Memphis.

If JB had played tonight but JT did not, we still lose except probably in regulation…

In your heart, you know we’re right…

this is just becoming straight up trolling.  and no, you aren't right.

Re: True or False: We Play Better as a Team Without JB
« Reply #142 on: February 15, 2023, 02:18:19 AM »

Offline blink

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When he makes his mind up, he's not being stopped,

Until he turns it over because his mind is writing checks his body cannot cash (seems to sometimes play like he’s Kobe, but he’s clearly not). Or he misses a pivotal free throw near the end of the game.
His handle remains his weakness and his knack for missing FT's at key times. But they're still a lot better with him than without him.

When will people understand it is not about Brown's "handle" ?
The guy dribbles and displays footwork and body control quite well.
He does not need to improve his ball handling.

The problem is that he dribbles into heavy defensive traffic when he shouldn't and he has never seemed to learn that it doesn't work.

I actually agree with this.  Most of Jaylen's TO problems come from not picking his spots for his drives well enough.  It isn't that he can't dribble, or that he has a bad handle.  He is just so good at getting to the rim, that he forces it sometimes against too many defenders and that makes it almost impossible to protect the ball.  He can still start a drive into traffic, but he needs to move the ball once he has done his job by drawing multiple defenders.  Both JB and JT are getting better at that skill.  Neither are great at it yet.

I also think that Tatum and sometimes Brown dribble too much on ISO's, it give the def a chance to set up.  They are both better off not dribbling the clock away.  Either make a strong move, or shoot, or pass the ball quickly.  The ISO dribbling for 5-10 seconds and then attempting to do a step back 3, or drive often doesn't work for very many players.  Need to get the defense moving, then get the ball back to Tatum or Brown and let them attack the seams of the def that open up from def rotations. 

Re: True or False: We Play Better as a Team Without JB
« Reply #143 on: February 15, 2023, 02:18:46 AM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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I guess we'll see tonight.


 8)

Touche’

LOL

well we look like we are playing better without Tatum or Brown against the Bucks, so lets get rid of both of them
might as well get rid of Smart, and Horford as well...we have DW and MM.

If JT had played tonight but JB did not, we win without OT just like we won against Memphis.

If JB had played tonight but JT did not, we still lose except probably in regulation…

In your heart, you know we’re right…

this is just becoming straight up trolling.  and no, you aren't right.

What? How is it trolling to point out we barely lost tonight and would have won had JT played, after a recent night of winning against Memphis with JT but without JB?

Bottom line: This team plays team ball with JT and without JB. This team plays team ball without JT and without JB. This team does not play team ball to the extent it should with JB. For whatever reason, this team doesn’t facilitate as well nor play D as well when JB is playing. Maybe it’s all the iso crap? Maybe it’s personalities? I don’t know. And maybe I’m wrong. I’m wrong a lot. I just want some data to show I’m wrong when I say this team plays better without JB…
« Last Edit: February 15, 2023, 02:46:55 AM by GreenlyGreeny »

Re: True or False: We Play Better as a Team Without JB
« Reply #144 on: February 15, 2023, 02:20:34 AM »

Offline blink

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I guess we'll see tonight.


 8)

Touche’

LOL

well we look like we are playing better without Tatum or Brown against the Bucks, so lets get rid of both of them
might as well get rid of Smart, and Horford as well...we have DW and MM.

If JT had played tonight but JB did not, we win without OT just like we won against Memphis.

If JB had played tonight but JT did not, we still lose except probably in regulation…

In your heart, you know we’re right…

this is just becoming straight up trolling.  and no, you aren't right.

What? How is it trolling to point out we barely lost tonight and would have won had JT played, after a recent night of winning against Memphis with JT but without JB?

None of what you said proves ANYTHING.  Just because you SAY that we would have won with JT playing and lost with JB playing you think people should believe you?  Are you nuts?  I am making my exit from this thread.  I have had enough.  Enjoy your delusions.

Re: True or False: We Play Better as a Team Without JB
« Reply #145 on: February 15, 2023, 02:21:08 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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I guess we'll see tonight.


 8)

Touche’

LOL

well we look like we are playing better without Tatum or Brown against the Bucks, so lets get rid of both of them
might as well get rid of Smart, and Horford as well...we have DW and MM.

If JT had played tonight but JB did not, we win without OT just like we won against Memphis.

If JB had played tonight but JT did not, we still lose except probably in regulation…

In your heart, you know we’re right…

this is just becoming straight up trolling.  and no, you aren't right.

I agree this is trolling. We missed smart and Horford also tonight. Just having this non stop posts bashing jb when they are not remotely relevant or not honest or good discussion.

Re: True or False: We Play Better as a Team Without JB
« Reply #146 on: February 15, 2023, 02:24:22 AM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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I guess we'll see tonight.


 8)

Touche’

LOL

well we look like we are playing better without Tatum or Brown against the Bucks, so lets get rid of both of them
might as well get rid of Smart, and Horford as well...we have DW and MM.

If JT had played tonight but JB did not, we win without OT just like we won against Memphis.

If JB had played tonight but JT did not, we still lose except probably in regulation…

In your heart, you know we’re right…

this is just becoming straight up trolling.  and no, you aren't right.

I agree this is trolling. We missed smart and Horford also tonight. Just having this non stop posts bashing jb when they are not remotely relevant or not honest or good discussion.

I am just asking for data to support the argument we play better with JB. Because I’m pretty sure we do not. I do not think it is trolling. Definitely not my intent. Moranis, please back me up that we are not trolling.

Re: True or False: We Play Better as a Team Without JB
« Reply #147 on: February 15, 2023, 02:28:16 AM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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I guess we'll see tonight.


 8)

Touche’

LOL

well we look like we are playing better without Tatum or Brown against the Bucks, so lets get rid of both of them
might as well get rid of Smart, and Horford as well...we have DW and MM.

If JT had played tonight but JB did not, we win without OT just like we won against Memphis.

If JB had played tonight but JT did not, we still lose except probably in regulation…

In your heart, you know we’re right…

How many times you gonna say the same thing here? I’m just curious how many pages more we have to deal with bashing brown.

It’s not even bashing Brown. If he wants to be the man, does not want to truly accept his role as the number two to JT, we should help him be the man somewhere else. This is JT’s team. I’m perfectly happy with how we play with JT and without JB. JB is a very, very good player. I am not bashing him. I think we should cash him in for another very, very good player who will pair better with JT and Co. It’s not bashing or trolling, and it’s an opinion of eight people who voted, perhaps even more who are waiting to cast their ballot. The majority should not be able to silence the minority in an exchange of friendly ideas (we all love the Celtics and want the best for the Celtics)…right?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2023, 02:33:50 AM by GreenlyGreeny »

Re: True or False: We Play Better as a Team Without JB
« Reply #148 on: February 15, 2023, 02:38:25 AM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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When he makes his mind up, he's not being stopped,

Until he turns it over because his mind is writing checks his body cannot cash (seems to sometimes play like he’s Kobe, but he’s clearly not). Or he misses a pivotal free throw near the end of the game.
His handle remains his weakness and his knack for missing FT's at key times. But they're still a lot better with him than without him.

When will people understand it is not about Brown's "handle" ?
The guy dribbles and displays footwork and body control quite well.
He does not need to improve his ball handling.

The problem is that he dribbles into heavy defensive traffic when he shouldn't and he has never seemed to learn that it doesn't work.

Yeah, his BBIQ is not quite there. He’s writing checks his body cannot cash. He thinks he can be Kobe, but he’s Glen Rice. That is not bashing because, like Brown, Rice was an all-star and I was a big fan of Rice back in the day. It pains me to say it, but Kobe is top 10-20 all-time whereas Rice is top 100-200. I wish Glen Rice had been paired with a guy like JT because he would have won titles as an elite number two guy. I keep hoping JB improves his BBIQ and style of play so that we can win a title with him and JT. But JB has gotta change whatever he needs to change so this team plays awesome team ball when he’s playing…just like it does when he’s not playing, as evidenced by the impressive efforts against two title contenders this past week…
« Last Edit: February 15, 2023, 02:44:30 AM by GreenlyGreeny »