True or False: We Play Better as a Team Without JB

[Moranis]

If Boston doesn't win the title, I'd trade him this summer.

Brown for Towns straight up works.  Short of that, I don't see how you get value for Brown.

For the record, I think Brown is a great player.  I am not sure how the advanced stats don't support this.  I don't ignore advanced stats or stats in general but I go a lot by what I see on the court.  What I see in Brown is a smart, hard working, athletic player.  That said, there may be a trade that works, I don't know.

Adding another player, I would trade Brown for Bam Adebayo also.  Not sure if MIA would make that trade, or if MIN would trade Towns, but those are the level of players (and position) that I would consider trading Brown for.

Those are both reasonable trades.  There are others, for example a trade with Toronto for Siakam + other pieces may make sense, like Siakam, Anunoby for Brown, Gallinari, Pritchard, Kornet (something like that).  I think that would make sense for both teams, at least in theory.  I'd call up the Cavs and see if Mobley was available.  I think Brown would slot very nicely into Cleveland with Mitchell, Garland, and Allen, and Mobley would be awesome here as a big man.  There would have to be other salary coming to Boston like Osman + Okoro.  That would be an interesting trade.  I don't think Cleveland would do it, but it would at least make sense for both teams.  I'd consider something like Ayton + Payne for Brown.  Probably wouldn't do that, but I'd at least think about it.  I'd also consider Anthony Davis or Damien Lillard who both may become available this summer (and if Wash was giving away more than Beal I'd consider him as well).  If New Orleans wanted to trade Ingram or Zion, again I think that could make sense. 

I'm sure there are other 1 for 1 type trades that make sense, but there are also 1 for 2 + draft pick trades that I think could work.  Atlanta for example, like Brown, Gallinari for Collins, Bogdanovic, 2 1st's (though I'm not sure the Hawks have any to trade because of Murray).  Obviously Collins and Boggy aren't collectively as good as Brown, but the extra 1st's are helpful and those 2 guys would at least fit stylistically with the C's.  The Nets could offer Bridges, Harris, and a couple of the Phoenix/Dallas 1st's for Brown.  Again Bridges is not as good as Brown, but a solid fit with Tatum and extra draft picks to utilize.  Perhaps the Thunder want to compete next year, I'd think about Holmgren + Dort (and a couple of the billion picks they have) for Brown if Holmgren's medicals checked out. 

Lots of options potentially out there.  Of course none of those players may be available either.

Yeah, I find some of those trades to be heavily slanted in our favor.  Even the JKJB crowd would probably due Brown + Gallo for Siakam + OGA, for instance. 

Unless you're talking the recent Durant deal, though, those are rarely the types of packages that teams receive in trades.

It depends on what the team wants in return though.  A lot of time the team wants to completely start over, which obviously wouldn't be the case in Boston. 

[Roy H.]

If Boston doesn't win the title, I'd trade him this summer.

Brown for Towns straight up works.  Short of that, I don't see how you get value for Brown.

For the record, I think Brown is a great player.  I am not sure how the advanced stats don't support this.  I don't ignore advanced stats or stats in general but I go a lot by what I see on the court.  What I see in Brown is a smart, hard working, athletic player.  That said, there may be a trade that works, I don't know.

Adding another player, I would trade Brown for Bam Adebayo also.  Not sure if MIA would make that trade, or if MIN would trade Towns, but those are the level of players (and position) that I would consider trading Brown for.

Those are both reasonable trades.  There are others, for example a trade with Toronto for Siakam + other pieces may make sense, like Siakam, Anunoby for Brown, Gallinari, Pritchard, Kornet (something like that).  I think that would make sense for both teams, at least in theory.  I'd call up the Cavs and see if Mobley was available.  I think Brown would slot very nicely into Cleveland with Mitchell, Garland, and Allen, and Mobley would be awesome here as a big man.  There would have to be other salary coming to Boston like Osman + Okoro.  That would be an interesting trade.  I don't think Cleveland would do it, but it would at least make sense for both teams.  I'd consider something like Ayton + Payne for Brown.  Probably wouldn't do that, but I'd at least think about it.  I'd also consider Anthony Davis or Damien Lillard who both may become available this summer (and if Wash was giving away more than Beal I'd consider him as well).  If New Orleans wanted to trade Ingram or Zion, again I think that could make sense. 

I'm sure there are other 1 for 1 type trades that make sense, but there are also 1 for 2 + draft pick trades that I think could work.  Atlanta for example, like Brown, Gallinari for Collins, Bogdanovic, 2 1st's (though I'm not sure the Hawks have any to trade because of Murray).  Obviously Collins and Boggy aren't collectively as good as Brown, but the extra 1st's are helpful and those 2 guys would at least fit stylistically with the C's.  The Nets could offer Bridges, Harris, and a couple of the Phoenix/Dallas 1st's for Brown.  Again Bridges is not as good as Brown, but a solid fit with Tatum and extra draft picks to utilize.  Perhaps the Thunder want to compete next year, I'd think about Holmgren + Dort (and a couple of the billion picks they have) for Brown if Holmgren's medicals checked out. 

Lots of options potentially out there.  Of course none of those players may be available either.

Yeah, I find some of those trades to be heavily slanted in our favor.  Even the JKJB crowd would probably due Brown + Gallo for Siakam + OGA, for instance. 

Unless you're talking the recent Durant deal, though, those are rarely the types of packages that teams receive in trades.

It depends on what the team wants in return though.  A lot of time the team wants to completely start over, which obviously wouldn't be the case in Boston.

I think if we ever moved JB, we'd be hoping for something similar to the Jimmy Butler to Minnesota trade.  They got Zach Lavine (struggling with health issues at the time) and the #7 pick.

I don't know what that would equate to.  Franz Wagner + Orlando's #1, top-4 protected? 

[Phantom255x]

This has become the new "are there rozier fans" thread 

[todd_days_41]

If Boston doesn't win the title, I'd trade him this summer.

Brown for Towns straight up works.  Short of that, I don't see how you get value for Brown.

For the record, I think Brown is a great player.  I am not sure how the advanced stats don't support this.  I don't ignore advanced stats or stats in general but I go a lot by what I see on the court.  What I see in Brown is a smart, hard working, athletic player.  That said, there may be a trade that works, I don't know.

Adding another player, I would trade Brown for Bam Adebayo also.  Not sure if MIA would make that trade, or if MIN would trade Towns, but those are the level of players (and position) that I would consider trading Brown for.

I think that would leave us with a mismatched roster.  I don't think he would work with Timelord, and I'm bothered by his tendency to shrink in the playoffs.

I'm not sure about Towns, but my tendency would be to just keep Brown unless he is expressing that he wants out.

Agree — I’m passing on Bam, and Towns is tempting but hardly a dunk. Probably a pass short of more details shaking out.

[Vermont Green]

If Boston doesn't win the title, I'd trade him this summer.

Brown for Towns straight up works.  Short of that, I don't see how you get value for Brown.

For the record, I think Brown is a great player.  I am not sure how the advanced stats don't support this.  I don't ignore advanced stats or stats in general but I go a lot by what I see on the court.  What I see in Brown is a smart, hard working, athletic player.  That said, there may be a trade that works, I don't know.

Adding another player, I would trade Brown for Bam Adebayo also.  Not sure if MIA would make that trade, or if MIN would trade Towns, but those are the level of players (and position) that I would consider trading Brown for.

I think that would leave us with a mismatched roster.  I don't think he would work with Timelord, and I'm bothered by his tendency to shrink in the playoffs.

I'm not sure about Towns, but my tendency would be to just keep Brown unless he is expressing that he wants out.

Agree — I’m passing on Bam, and Towns is tempting but hardly a dunk. Probably a pass short of more details shaking out.

I understand the reservations on Bam.  I am pretty high on Bam though.  I think he would be a terrific PF for our team going forward.  He has been a pretty solid 20 pts/10 rebs range guy for the last several seasons.  Scores efficiently, gets to the foul line.  Plenty good defender.  The only knock is that he is not a 3pt shooter.  For me, I can live with that.  I will take the steady mid-range game and all around solid play anytime.  I like Siakam too but I would prefer Bam if given the choice.

And I would love to see Towns on the Celtics.  I feel Brown is a great player.  There are not a lot of players I would even consider trading him for.  And if I did trade him, I would want a skilled PF, all star level player in return.  It balances the roster.

[Who]

I'm not breaking up a title contender for anything less than a clear and large improvement over Jaylen Brown.

No lateral moves. No slight gains. Clear and large improvement. So large you cannot say no to it.

[liam]

I'm not breaking up a title contender for anything less than a clear and large improvement over Jaylen Brown.

No lateral moves. No slight gains. Clear and large improvement. So large you cannot say no to it.

Who is that? Joker and Donic? Giannis? None of those guys are going anywhere.

[Moranis]

If Boston doesn't win the title, I'd trade him this summer.

Brown for Towns straight up works.  Short of that, I don't see how you get value for Brown.

For the record, I think Brown is a great player.  I am not sure how the advanced stats don't support this.  I don't ignore advanced stats or stats in general but I go a lot by what I see on the court.  What I see in Brown is a smart, hard working, athletic player.  That said, there may be a trade that works, I don't know.

Adding another player, I would trade Brown for Bam Adebayo also.  Not sure if MIA would make that trade, or if MIN would trade Towns, but those are the level of players (and position) that I would consider trading Brown for.

Those are both reasonable trades.  There are others, for example a trade with Toronto for Siakam + other pieces may make sense, like Siakam, Anunoby for Brown, Gallinari, Pritchard, Kornet (something like that).  I think that would make sense for both teams, at least in theory.  I'd call up the Cavs and see if Mobley was available.  I think Brown would slot very nicely into Cleveland with Mitchell, Garland, and Allen, and Mobley would be awesome here as a big man.  There would have to be other salary coming to Boston like Osman + Okoro.  That would be an interesting trade.  I don't think Cleveland would do it, but it would at least make sense for both teams.  I'd consider something like Ayton + Payne for Brown.  Probably wouldn't do that, but I'd at least think about it.  I'd also consider Anthony Davis or Damien Lillard who both may become available this summer (and if Wash was giving away more than Beal I'd consider him as well).  If New Orleans wanted to trade Ingram or Zion, again I think that could make sense. 

I'm sure there are other 1 for 1 type trades that make sense, but there are also 1 for 2 + draft pick trades that I think could work.  Atlanta for example, like Brown, Gallinari for Collins, Bogdanovic, 2 1st's (though I'm not sure the Hawks have any to trade because of Murray).  Obviously Collins and Boggy aren't collectively as good as Brown, but the extra 1st's are helpful and those 2 guys would at least fit stylistically with the C's.  The Nets could offer Bridges, Harris, and a couple of the Phoenix/Dallas 1st's for Brown.  Again Bridges is not as good as Brown, but a solid fit with Tatum and extra draft picks to utilize.  Perhaps the Thunder want to compete next year, I'd think about Holmgren + Dort (and a couple of the billion picks they have) for Brown if Holmgren's medicals checked out. 

Lots of options potentially out there.  Of course none of those players may be available either.

Yeah, I find some of those trades to be heavily slanted in our favor.  Even the JKJB crowd would probably due Brown + Gallo for Siakam + OGA, for instance. 

Unless you're talking the recent Durant deal, though, those are rarely the types of packages that teams receive in trades.

It depends on what the team wants in return though.  A lot of time the team wants to completely start over, which obviously wouldn't be the case in Boston.

I think if we ever moved JB, we'd be hoping for something similar to the Jimmy Butler to Minnesota trade.  They got Zach Lavine (struggling with health issues at the time) and the #7 pick.

I don't know what that would equate to.  Franz Wagner + Orlando's #1, top-4 protected?

Dort + Holmgren would be fairly close to that.  Dort obviously not as good as LaVine, but Holmgren is a much better prospect than 7 so it balances out.  You'd have to feel comfortable with Holmgren's medicals though

[Who]

I'm not breaking up a title contender for anything less than a clear and large improvement over Jaylen Brown.

No lateral moves. No slight gains. Clear and large improvement. So large you cannot say no to it.

Who is that? Joker and Donic? Giannis? None of those guys are going anywhere.

Exactly

[liam]

I guess we'll see tonight.


 

[Vermont Green]

I think if we ever moved JB, we'd be hoping for something similar to the Jimmy Butler to Minnesota trade.  They got Zach Lavine (struggling with health issues at the time) and the #7 pick.

I don't know what that would equate to.  Franz Wagner + Orlando's #1, top-4 protected?

I am curious about Franz Wagner.  He is 6'-10" but they have him playing SF?  Banchero is the PF?  Brown would be a good fit for them.  They need a SG (Harris is not the long term answer).  The problem with the protected picks is what happens to them later.  With Brown, Orlando could end up a middle of the pack team and we end up with pick 13 or something.

Anyway, yes, this is probably comparable value but only makes sense if you think Wagner can be a long term PF option.  I am not sure he is so this trade may not make sense for the Celtics right now.

[ozgod]

I'm not breaking up a title contender for anything less than a clear and large improvement over Jaylen Brown.

No lateral moves. No slight gains. Clear and large improvement. So large you cannot say no to it.

Who is that? Joker and Donic? Giannis? None of those guys are going anywhere.

Exactly. Definitely not for Kawhi. Great player but misses 2 years for every good year and his trajectory is down while JB's is up.

[td450]

I think if we ever moved JB, we'd be hoping for something similar to the Jimmy Butler to Minnesota trade.  They got Zach Lavine (struggling with health issues at the time) and the #7 pick.

I don't know what that would equate to.  Franz Wagner + Orlando's #1, top-4 protected?

I am curious about Franz Wagner.  He is 6'-10" but they have him playing SF?  Banchero is the PF?  Brown would be a good fit for them.  They need a SG (Harris is not the long term answer).  The problem with the protected picks is what happens to them later.  With Brown, Orlando could end up a middle of the pack team and we end up with pick 13 or something.

Anyway, yes, this is probably comparable value but only makes sense if you think Wagner can be a long term PF option.  I am not sure he is so this trade may not make sense for the Celtics right now.

Setting aside the JB lunacy, the Magic own Chicago's pick this year too (top 4 protected) and may very well end up with 5th and 6 bottom slots record wise.

OKC has an ocean of picks.

Both teams already have a lot of talent. I expect them both to be top tier as soon as next season.

[tazzmaniac]

TP Todd_days. That's an excellent point made.
If Brown would accept his role as a secondary option and embrace his defensive qualities he would be much more valuable to the team.

Is there any evidence that he is not accepting this? I hear this brought up a lot but I’m finding it hard to find any evidence supporting this narrative.

Yeah, I also think this is made up.

In addition, Jaylen has t requested a trade because he doesn’t want to leave. It’s fans that are creating this narrative because they don’t like JB, for one reason or another.

Definitely not much “evidence”. I think the chip on Brown’s shoulder is fairly evident in his comments and interviews with some regularity. But obv he doesn’t come right out and say it.

Doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

Please, cite these comments

I think in the past he's made comments about not feeling embraced, and on social media he's liked comments talking about how Boston fans don't appreciate him enough.  And, anecdotally, he hasn't been a "rah rah" guy about the fans and city in general. 

That's why I liked this in a recent interview:

“My friends, they come in town, they talk about Boston. I mean, Boston is this and that and I find myself defending,” explained the Georgia native. “As I got integrated into the community, I met a lot of people who live in Boston who do a lot of great things.”

I beginning to think that he won't re-sign with the C's.  I think he'll head to ATL so what's the package we can get back for him in a S&T?  Of course, Danny is in Utah with a plethora of picks, maybe a Markkanen and two firsts....   

I'm hoping he gets healthy soon and makes All-NBA.  That would make us the heavy favorite to keep him here.

It seems like we do say that a lot about him, "I hope he gets healthy soon".  I'm in the JKJB but he has missed significant time the past few years.

I wouldn't put this situation on him not being healthy.  a teammate's elbow to your face and breaking it is pretty abnormal.

it is always something with him though.  He misses 10+ games due to injury every year.

again, I wouldn't put this as something indicating he's frail or has health concerns.  an face-breaking elbow to the face would knock out any player and is not something that will be a recurring issue (at least I hope he never experiences another hit to the face like that for his sake)

Happened to Embiid twice.  First time collision (shoulder not elbow, I think) his teammate, Fultz, right before the 2018 playoffs.  Second time via Siakam's elbow during the 2022 playoffs. 

[SHAQATTACK]

I guess we'll see tonight.


 

Touche’