Backup bigs

[ozgod]

On the issue of backup bigs, how do people feel about Blake Griffin?

I don't think he's a very good player at this stage.  I wouldn't rely on him for any meaningful minutes.  But, I do like him on the team, in that "15 year veteran" role that Kyrie famously asked for.  There's a reason that a team like Miami keeps paying Haslem to sit on its bench.  Griffin has been that guy who can both be a calming influence, and a guy who gets others fired up.

I love him on the team because he can be an impact player from the point of view of hustle, and for his influence in the locker room. He plays the game the right way and he's got credibility. And he doesn't seem to demand a lot of minutes, he's happy fitting in, which is exactly the type of player you want for that type of role. We don't need Jae Crowder types that will complain about minutes and destabilize our locker room. But he's pretty much done as a rotation player - it's kind of sad how quickly he deteriorated. Just 4 years ago (2018-19) the guy was averaging 24ppg/8rpg/5apg with Detroit. He played 75 games that season - since then he hasn't played above 56. His per-36 ppg is still around 12ppg but he's a shadow of even his non-flying Detroit self.

[ozgod]

Sign Boogie if we want offense, passing and rebounding.

Sign Favors if we want defense and rebounding.

Is there any chance that Brad looked at the available FA’s and decided that they wouldn’t contribute to this current team?

I understand that we all think we know basketball, but maybe Brad is more informed to make basketball decisions than we are? I don’t see this point anywhere in the thread.

Yeah, I've never bought this type of "appeal to the expert" reasoning.

Experts make crappy decisions all of the time.  Great authors sometimes write crappy books; great artists make paintings and sculptures that miss the mark.  The general public can't necessarily say "I could do better", but they are qualified enough -- at least in many circumstances -- to say "that looks flawed".

I think this is why we have hillbillies questioning guys like Fauci.

I agree that we can say something is flawed. I don’t think our backups to backups are great. I think that changes when Williams comes back. This is why I thought this has been a nitpick. The solution is there, we just need to be patient and stomach more Celtics wins.

I think we all know we have a deficiency in that area. To me the issue is, what can we actually do that would be a net gain for us? Can we fit someone into the TPE that would justify paying 4x his salary in tax? Or is there a trade package we can put together with existing players? Again, people want good names, we don't want to replace dross with dross...but to get someone good you have to give up someone good. Are we willing to do that?

For example, we could trade Derrick White ($16.8m) for Myles Turner ($18m). That's the type of trade we would have to do to get someone good. And unlike it we had used our $17m TPE earlier in the offseason, this one would be a wash when it comes to luxury tax. Is this something that would improve our team?

Would Turner be our long term solution at PF?

If he is, and he could be Al's long term replacement, that might change Brad's calculus, because it would then be worth making that type of splash. It really comes down to, would Myles Turner make our team better than Derrick White would? I'm not sure it would. Myles has an injury history that's nearly as bad as Timelord's - he's missed 95 games in the last 3 years. White has a Win Share rating of 5 vs Myles at 3.

I feel like trading for Myles now is buying high - I think he's underperforming his contract while Derrick is overperforming his.

[Atzar]

On the issue of backup bigs, how do people feel about Blake Griffin?

I don't think he's a very good player at this stage.  I wouldn't rely on him for any meaningful minutes.  But, I do like him on the team, in that "15 year veteran" role that Kyrie famously asked for.  There's a reason that a team like Miami keeps paying Haslem to sit on its bench.  Griffin has been that guy who can both be a calming influence, and a guy who gets others fired up.

He fit into the clubhouse instantly upon arrival, and he doesn't explode if pushed into duty because of foul trouble or injuries.  More or less what I need a third-string guy to be.

I'm fine with him. 

[Surferdad]

Sign Boogie if we want offense, passing and rebounding.

Sign Favors if we want defense and rebounding.

Is there any chance that Brad looked at the available FA’s and decided that they wouldn’t contribute to this current team?

I understand that we all think we know basketball, but maybe Brad is more informed to make basketball decisions than we are? I don’t see this point anywhere in the thread.

Yeah, I've never bought this type of "appeal to the expert" reasoning.

Experts make crappy decisions all of the time.  Great authors sometimes write crappy books; great artists make paintings and sculptures that miss the mark.  The general public can't necessarily say "I could do better", but they are qualified enough -- at least in many circumstances -- to say "that looks flawed".

I think this is why we have hillbillies questioning guys like Fauci.

I agree that we can say something is flawed. I don’t think our backups to backups are great. I think that changes when Williams comes back. This is why I thought this has been a nitpick. The solution is there, we just need to be patient and stomach more Celtics wins.

I think we all know we have a deficiency in that area. To me the issue is, what can we actually do that would be a net gain for us? Can we fit someone into the TPE that would justify paying 4x his salary in tax? Or is there a trade package we can put together with existing players? Again, people want good names, we don't want to replace dross with dross...but to get someone good you have to give up someone good. Are we willing to do that?

For example, we could trade Derrick White ($16.8m) for Myles Turner ($18m). That's the type of trade we would have to do to get someone good. And unlike it we had used our $17m TPE earlier in the offseason, this one would be a wash when it comes to luxury tax. Is this something that would improve our team?

Would Turner be our long term solution at PF?

If he is, and he could be Al's long term replacement, that might change Brad's calculus, because it would then be worth making that type of splash. It really comes down to, would Myles Turner make our team better than Derrick White would? I'm not sure it would. Myles has an injury history that's nearly as bad as Timelord's - he's missed 95 games in the last 3 years. White has a Win Share rating of 5 vs Myles at 3.

I feel like trading for Myles now is buying high - I think he's underperforming his contract while Derrick is overperforming his.

I don't know either. It's weighing excellent guard/wing play vs. underperforming front-court play. This is why some people contend that such a trade would balance out the roster. However, it's hard to argue with a 10-3 record and a 7-game win streak. That said, I would probably pull the trigger since I've always liked Turner and he would complement Rob Will quite well.

[ozgod]

Sign Boogie if we want offense, passing and rebounding.

Sign Favors if we want defense and rebounding.

Is there any chance that Brad looked at the available FA’s and decided that they wouldn’t contribute to this current team?

I understand that we all think we know basketball, but maybe Brad is more informed to make basketball decisions than we are? I don’t see this point anywhere in the thread.

Yeah, I've never bought this type of "appeal to the expert" reasoning.

Experts make crappy decisions all of the time.  Great authors sometimes write crappy books; great artists make paintings and sculptures that miss the mark.  The general public can't necessarily say "I could do better", but they are qualified enough -- at least in many circumstances -- to say "that looks flawed".

I think this is why we have hillbillies questioning guys like Fauci.

I agree that we can say something is flawed. I don’t think our backups to backups are great. I think that changes when Williams comes back. This is why I thought this has been a nitpick. The solution is there, we just need to be patient and stomach more Celtics wins.

I think we all know we have a deficiency in that area. To me the issue is, what can we actually do that would be a net gain for us? Can we fit someone into the TPE that would justify paying 4x his salary in tax? Or is there a trade package we can put together with existing players? Again, people want good names, we don't want to replace dross with dross...but to get someone good you have to give up someone good. Are we willing to do that?

For example, we could trade Derrick White ($16.8m) for Myles Turner ($18m). That's the type of trade we would have to do to get someone good. And unlike it we had used our $17m TPE earlier in the offseason, this one would be a wash when it comes to luxury tax. Is this something that would improve our team?

Would Turner be our long term solution at PF?

If he is, and he could be Al's long term replacement, that might change Brad's calculus, because it would then be worth making that type of splash. It really comes down to, would Myles Turner make our team better than Derrick White would? I'm not sure it would. Myles has an injury history that's nearly as bad as Timelord's - he's missed 95 games in the last 3 years. White has a Win Share rating of 5 vs Myles at 3.

I feel like trading for Myles now is buying high - I think he's underperforming his contract while Derrick is overperforming his.

I don't know either. It's weighing excellent guard/wing play vs. underperforming front-court play. This is why some people contend that such a trade would balance out the roster. However, it's hard to argue with a 10-3 record and a 7-game win streak. That said, I would probably pull the trigger since I've always liked Turner and he would complement Rob Will quite well.

Here's the thing...right now we have a need in the frontcourt, and possibly in the future we would want a replacement for Al. Myles would fill that need, both now and in the future. We obviously have more depth in the backcourt with Smartacus, Brogdon and White, but imagine Brogdon getting injured for a few months, like Timelord is now. He certainly has the injury history. With no White we would have to fill that with Payton - a great impact sub but would we all be comfortable with him playing 20+ minutes?

That's really what it comes down to...of necessity, due to resource constraints, there's going to be a weak spot somewhere when someone gets hurt. We have to choose where and how we are willing to cover the weak spot. Either that or pay $400m in luxury tax like the Warrors do 

Though their situation is a little different...their payroll spend is top heavy, with 4 (5 next year) players in the $25m - $50m range. They spent $31m on players outside their top 5, we spent $53m because we have guys like Brogdon and White we're paying decent dollars. They're paying big dollars for cream of the crop players like Curry, Klay, Wiggins, Draymond and next year Poole, which we aren't doing - yet.

[ozgod]

Personally I'd be more inclined to use our small TPEs to find someone in that $5m price range than make a bigger change. Brad should be able to sell Wyc on spending $20m on a $5m guy. Bitadze would fit into either the Juancho or the Richardson TPEs and we would probably only have to give up a second round pick as well. His defense has apparently improved. Or Isaiah Stewart for $3m, though given he's starting with them they may not want to let him go. He's a strong rebounder and his defense is underrated.

The question is, would either of those players be better than Kornet or Vonleh?

[celticsclay]

Sign Boogie if we want offense, passing and rebounding.

Sign Favors if we want defense and rebounding.

Is there any chance that Brad looked at the available FA’s and decided that they wouldn’t contribute to this current team?

I understand that we all think we know basketball, but maybe Brad is more informed to make basketball decisions than we are? I don’t see this point anywhere in the thread.

Yeah, I've never bought this type of "appeal to the expert" reasoning.

Experts make crappy decisions all of the time.  Great authors sometimes write crappy books; great artists make paintings and sculptures that miss the mark.  The general public can't necessarily say "I could do better", but they are qualified enough -- at least in many circumstances -- to say "that looks flawed".

I think this is why we have hillbillies questioning guys like Fauci.

I agree that we can say something is flawed. I don’t think our backups to backups are great. I think that changes when Williams comes back. This is why I thought this has been a nitpick. The solution is there, we just need to be patient and stomach more Celtics wins.

I think we all know we have a deficiency in that area. To me the issue is, what can we actually do that would be a net gain for us? Can we fit someone into the TPE that would justify paying 4x his salary in tax? Or is there a trade package we can put together with existing players? Again, people want good names, we don't want to replace dross with dross...but to get someone good you have to give up someone good. Are we willing to do that?

For example, we could trade Derrick White ($16.8m) for Myles Turner ($18m). That's the type of trade we would have to do to get someone good. And unlike it we had used our $17m TPE earlier in the offseason, this one would be a wash when it comes to luxury tax. Is this something that would improve our team?

Would Turner be our long term solution at PF?

If he is, and he could be Al's long term replacement, that might change Brad's calculus, because it would then be worth making that type of splash. It really comes down to, would Myles Turner make our team better than Derrick White would? I'm not sure it would. Myles has an injury history that's nearly as bad as Timelord's - he's missed 95 games in the last 3 years. White has a Win Share rating of 5 vs Myles at 3.

I feel like trading for Myles now is buying high - I think he's underperforming his contract while Derrick is overperforming his.

I don't know either. It's weighing excellent guard/wing play vs. underperforming front-court play. This is why some people contend that such a trade would balance out the roster. However, it's hard to argue with a 10-3 record and a 7-game win streak. That said, I would probably pull the trigger since I've always liked Turner and he would complement Rob Will quite well.

Here's the thing...right now we have a need in the frontcourt, and possibly in the future we would want a replacement for Al. Myles would fill that need, both now and in the future. We obviously have more depth in the backcourt with Smartacus, Brogdon and White, but imagine Brogdon getting injured for a few months, like Timelord is now. He certainly has the injury history. With no White we would have to fill that with Payton - a great impact sub but would we all be comfortable with him playing 20+ minutes?

That's really what it comes down to...of necessity, due to resource constraints, there's going to be a weak spot somewhere when someone gets hurt. We have to choose where and how we are willing to cover the weak spot. Either that or pay $400m in luxury tax like the Warrors do 

Though their situation is a little different...their payroll spend is top heavy, with 4 (5 next year) players in the $25m - $50m range. They spent $31m on players outside their top 5, we spent $53m because we have guys like Brogdon and White we're paying decent dollars. They're paying big dollars for cream of the crop players like Curry, Klay, Wiggins, Draymond and next year Poole, which we aren't doing - yet.

What seems kind of crazy is klay is incredibly overpaid this year and next year. He is making 40 and 43 million dollars and I think his all star days are pretty clearly behind him. They will also let dray go this off-season

[ozgod]

Sign Boogie if we want offense, passing and rebounding.

Sign Favors if we want defense and rebounding.

Is there any chance that Brad looked at the available FA’s and decided that they wouldn’t contribute to this current team?

I understand that we all think we know basketball, but maybe Brad is more informed to make basketball decisions than we are? I don’t see this point anywhere in the thread.

Yeah, I've never bought this type of "appeal to the expert" reasoning.

Experts make crappy decisions all of the time.  Great authors sometimes write crappy books; great artists make paintings and sculptures that miss the mark.  The general public can't necessarily say "I could do better", but they are qualified enough -- at least in many circumstances -- to say "that looks flawed".

I think this is why we have hillbillies questioning guys like Fauci.

I agree that we can say something is flawed. I don’t think our backups to backups are great. I think that changes when Williams comes back. This is why I thought this has been a nitpick. The solution is there, we just need to be patient and stomach more Celtics wins.

I think we all know we have a deficiency in that area. To me the issue is, what can we actually do that would be a net gain for us? Can we fit someone into the TPE that would justify paying 4x his salary in tax? Or is there a trade package we can put together with existing players? Again, people want good names, we don't want to replace dross with dross...but to get someone good you have to give up someone good. Are we willing to do that?

For example, we could trade Derrick White ($16.8m) for Myles Turner ($18m). That's the type of trade we would have to do to get someone good. And unlike it we had used our $17m TPE earlier in the offseason, this one would be a wash when it comes to luxury tax. Is this something that would improve our team?

Would Turner be our long term solution at PF?

If he is, and he could be Al's long term replacement, that might change Brad's calculus, because it would then be worth making that type of splash. It really comes down to, would Myles Turner make our team better than Derrick White would? I'm not sure it would. Myles has an injury history that's nearly as bad as Timelord's - he's missed 95 games in the last 3 years. White has a Win Share rating of 5 vs Myles at 3.

I feel like trading for Myles now is buying high - I think he's underperforming his contract while Derrick is overperforming his.

I don't know either. It's weighing excellent guard/wing play vs. underperforming front-court play. This is why some people contend that such a trade would balance out the roster. However, it's hard to argue with a 10-3 record and a 7-game win streak. That said, I would probably pull the trigger since I've always liked Turner and he would complement Rob Will quite well.

Here's the thing...right now we have a need in the frontcourt, and possibly in the future we would want a replacement for Al. Myles would fill that need, both now and in the future. We obviously have more depth in the backcourt with Smartacus, Brogdon and White, but imagine Brogdon getting injured for a few months, like Timelord is now. He certainly has the injury history. With no White we would have to fill that with Payton - a great impact sub but would we all be comfortable with him playing 20+ minutes?

That's really what it comes down to...of necessity, due to resource constraints, there's going to be a weak spot somewhere when someone gets hurt. We have to choose where and how we are willing to cover the weak spot. Either that or pay $400m in luxury tax like the Warrors do 

Though their situation is a little different...their payroll spend is top heavy, with 4 (5 next year) players in the $25m - $50m range. They spent $31m on players outside their top 5, we spent $53m because we have guys like Brogdon and White we're paying decent dollars. They're paying big dollars for cream of the crop players like Curry, Klay, Wiggins, Draymond and next year Poole, which we aren't doing - yet.

What seems kind of crazy is klay is incredibly overpaid this year and next year. He is making 40 and 43 million dollars and I think his all star days are pretty clearly behind him. They will also let dray go this off-season

Yup, they would pay $500m in salary and luxury tax if they kept Draymond 

[td450]

So the question is whether the team goes for a quality big when one comes along, or do they insist on a player that can maintain the defensive scheme, reducing the pool considerably?

I would hope for the latter. Turner or Poeltl are good players but they can't play switching defense like Horford. I would also think the team will have the resources to take only one shot at a player of value in the next year or two without major changes elsewhere. Stevens really needs to nail this one. I'm glad he's being patient.

[No Nickname]

If Charlotte continues to suck what would it take to get 32-yr-old Mason Plumlee?

He's shooting over 60%, for 9.7ppg, 8.9rbs, and 4asts.

Maybe Charlotte feels like he'd be a useful piece in the next few years and don't want to lose him?  And they want to re-sign him?

He's getting $8.5MM in the last year of a three-year deal, so he's an UFA after this season. 

Maybe they'd take Pritchard, flotsam and jetsam, and our 24 1st at the deadline?  I think it would have to be more than our Houston 2nd rounder.  He's a starter for them averaging 26mpg.

[liam]

If Charlotte continues to suck what would it take to get 32-yr-old Mason Plumlee?

He's shooting over 60%, for 9.7ppg, 8.9rbs, and 4asts.

Maybe Charlotte feels like he'd be a useful piece in the next few years and don't want to lose him?  And they want to re-sign him?

He's getting $8.5MM in the last year of a three-year deal, so he's an UFA after this season. 

Maybe they'd take Pritchard, flotsam and jetsam, and our 24 1st at the deadline?  I think it would have to be more than our Houston 2nd rounder.  He's a starter for them averaging 26mpg.

I don't think Plumplee can play in the playoffs due to his free throw shooting

.

[Goldstar88]

If Charlotte continues to suck what would it take to get 32-yr-old Mason Plumlee?

He's shooting over 60%, for 9.7ppg, 8.9rbs, and 4asts.

Maybe Charlotte feels like he'd be a useful piece in the next few years and don't want to lose him?  And they want to re-sign him?

He's getting $8.5MM in the last year of a three-year deal, so he's an UFA after this season. 

Maybe they'd take Pritchard, flotsam and jetsam, and our 24 1st at the deadline?  I think it would have to be more than our Houston 2nd rounder.  He's a starter for them averaging 26mpg.

I don't think Plumplee can play in the playoffs due to his free throw shooting

.

Agreed. Pass on all bigs that can’t at least make FT’s. I wouldn’t give up Pritchard for Plumlee.

[droopdog7]

People still sleeping on kornet I see

[Roy H.]

People still sleeping on kornet I see

He's looking great tonight.

That said, we can probably safely move on from Vonleh + Jackson. 

[droopdog7]

People still sleeping on kornet I see

He's looking great tonight.

That said, we can probably safely move on from Vonleh + Jackson.

Kornet has looked pretty dang good most nights.  The defense, as I’ve been saying, is real.

As for vonleh and Jackson, sure, they’re absolutely disposable, as is the end of every teams beach.