Nets, Tsai upset about Cryrie's promotion of antisemitic book, film

[Kernewek]

Lebron is upset that he gets questioned about Kyrie's actions from this season, but not about Jerry Jones' actions when he was a 14 year old adolescent in 1957:

"I got one question for you guys before you guys leave. I was thinking when I was on my way over here, I was wondering why I haven't gotten a question from you guys about the Jerry Jones photo," James said. "But when the Kyrie [Irving] thing was going on, you guys were quick to ask us questions about that."

"When I watch Kyrie talk and he says, 'I know who I am, but I want to keep the same energy when we're talking about my people and the things that we've been through,' and that Jerry Jones photo is one of those moments that our people, Black people, have been through in America. And I feel like as a Black man, as a Black athlete, as someone with power and a platform, when we do something wrong, or something that people don't agree with, it's on every single tabloid, every single news coverage, it's on the bottom ticker. It's asked about every single day.

"But it seems like to me that the whole Jerry Jones situation, photo -- and I know it was years and years ago and we all make mistakes, I get it -- but it seems like it's just been buried under, like, 'Oh, it happened. OK, we just move on.' And I was just kind of disappointed that I haven't received that question from you guys."

I think LeBron has a point, but I also think that there's an obvious and tangible difference between Jerry Jones - a guy who owns an NFL team - and Kyrie Irving, who is LeBron's former longtime coworker and peer.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

Well, at least the NBA doesn’t care.

I wonder, if Gordon Hayward linked to a story advocating hatred toward Muslims, would the league do nothing?

I was looking back at this thread and noticed a second reference to Gordon Hayward. Why have you mentioned a white player (that hasn’t been on the team for years) twice in reference to Kyrie/Jaylen?

To me, this seems like Tucker Carlson’s “double standard” rhetoric. “What if a white guy did this?!?”

Why did Gordon make two appearances, and what does he have to do with Jaylen?

There is a double standard.

And this is why you keep trying to connect Jaylen (a player that some of us like) with Kyrie (a player that none of us like)?

Jaylen hasn’t been punished/cancelled and needs to be?

[Roy H.]

Well, at least the NBA doesn’t care.

I wonder, if Gordon Hayward linked to a story advocating hatred toward Muslims, would the league do nothing?

I was looking back at this thread and noticed a second reference to Gordon Hayward. Why have you mentioned a white player (that hasn’t been on the team for years) twice in reference to Kyrie/Jaylen?

To me, this seems like Tucker Carlson’s “double standard” rhetoric. “What if a white guy did this?!?”

Why did Gordon make two appearances, and what does he have to do with Jaylen?

There is a double standard.

And this is why you keep trying to connect Jaylen (a player that some of us like) with Kyrie (a player that none of us like)?

Jaylen hasn’t been punished/cancelled and needs to be?

Jaylen connected himself to Kyrie.  Jaylen currently has his endorsement for a racist hate group that was supporting Kyrie still up on his twitter feed.  Jaylen has commented numerous times about Kyrie being punished too harshly and has defended him, while other VPs of the NBAPA haven't.  Jaylen is personal friends with Kyrie.  Jaylen initially defended Kanye West, another racist that both JB and Kyrie are friends with.

So, at the time JB was saying those things, a small handful of Celtics fans decided that they'd prefer their second best player not to be associated with -- and loudly speaking in defense of -- racists.  You're entitled to your own opinion; you've already admitted to hanging with friends who say racist things, so I suspect that what JB has said doesn't bother you much at all.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

Some of my friends from growing up in suburban MA said/say racist stuff and I usually come back hard at them by calling them dumb in some manner. Most of my friends don’t say horrible things, and if they do, they’re getting verbally destroyed. One of my friends from HS went silent on me for months after I hammered him for offensive anti-Semitic talk.

Kanye’s tweet offended me. Deserves everything he gets.

Kyrie tweeted a link. After clicking on this link, I learned that elements of the movie were deeply offensive. I didn’t watch the movie. After following the consensus without any research, I’m offended and Kyrie sucks. I love the suspension.

Jaylen, from what I’ve seen, was supporting his friend Kyrie. I’m a huge fan of Jaylen and have seen him take a leadership role in many ways. I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he’s not an ant-Semite until he says horrible things and I hear/read them. I haven’t seen that yet.

[dannyboy35]

  I’m not saying that this group isn’t a hate group. They are. But so is the Catholic Church. I’m sure most churches probably are but I was never a member so I won’t speak on that. I just think it should be recognized they’ve promoted hatred for years and nobody seems to care that players are members of the church. Maybe they’re not promoting it but if they were I’m sure nobody would have a problem.

[greg683x]

  I’m not saying that this group isn’t a hate group. They are. But so is the Catholic Church. I’m sure most churches probably are but I was never a member so I won’t speak on that. I just think it should be recognized they’ve promoted hatred for years and nobody seems to care that players are members of the church. Maybe they’re not promoting it but if they were I’m sure nobody would have a problem.

Refresh my memory, when does Catholic Church spread hate?

[Kernewek]

  I’m not saying that this group isn’t a hate group. They are. But so is the Catholic Church. I’m sure most churches probably are but I was never a member so I won’t speak on that. I just think it should be recognized they’ve promoted hatred for years and nobody seems to care that players are members of the church. Maybe they’re not promoting it but if they were I’m sure nobody would have a problem.

Refresh my memory, when does Catholic Church spread hate?

At the risk of getting off topic - Dannyboy's not wrong. Whether it's a parallel conversation worth having is another question, maybe.

[Donoghus]

  I’m not saying that this group isn’t a hate group. They are. But so is the Catholic Church. I’m sure most churches probably are but I was never a member so I won’t speak on that. I just think it should be recognized they’ve promoted hatred for years and nobody seems to care that players are members of the church. Maybe they’re not promoting it but if they were I’m sure nobody would have a problem.

Refresh my memory, when does Catholic Church spread hate?

At the risk of getting off topic - Dannyboy's not wrong. Whether it's a parallel conversation worth having is another question, maybe.

Yeah, that's a whole different thread. No need to go off the rails here.

[greg683x]

  I’m not saying that this group isn’t a hate group. They are. But so is the Catholic Church. I’m sure most churches probably are but I was never a member so I won’t speak on that. I just think it should be recognized they’ve promoted hatred for years and nobody seems to care that players are members of the church. Maybe they’re not promoting it but if they were I’m sure nobody would have a problem.

Refresh my memory, when does Catholic Church spread hate?

At the risk of getting off topic - Dannyboy's not wrong. Whether it's a parallel conversation worth having is another question, maybe.

Ok fair enough.  Not looking to start a huge debate, it was just curiosity

[celticsclay]

Well, at least the NBA doesn’t care.

I wonder, if Gordon Hayward linked to a story advocating hatred toward Muslims, would the league do nothing?

I was looking back at this thread and noticed a second reference to Gordon Hayward. Why have you mentioned a white player (that hasn’t been on the team for years) twice in reference to Kyrie/Jaylen?

To me, this seems like Tucker Carlson’s “double standard” rhetoric. “What if a white guy did this?!?”

Why did Gordon make two appearances, and what does he have to do with Jaylen?

There is a double standard.

And this is why you keep trying to connect Jaylen (a player that some of us like) with Kyrie (a player that none of us like)?

Jaylen hasn’t been punished/cancelled and needs to be?

Jaylen connected himself to Kyrie.  Jaylen currently has his endorsement for a racist hate group that was supporting Kyrie still up on his twitter feed.  Jaylen has commented numerous times about Kyrie being punished too harshly and has defended him, while other VPs of the NBAPA haven't.  Jaylen is personal friends with Kyrie.  Jaylen initially defended Kanye West, another racist that both JB and Kyrie are friends with.

So, at the time JB was saying those things, a small handful of Celtics fans decided that they'd prefer their second best player not to be associated with -- and loudly speaking in defense of -- racists.  You're entitled to your own opinion; you've already admitted to hanging with friends who say racist things, so I suspect that what JB has said doesn't bother you much at all.

Well said Roy.

[cman88]

At the end of the day racism is racism. No person or race should get a "get out of jail free card"

Alot of the arguments like with LeBron seem to be this "whataboutism" where if my race was aggrieved then you can't comment when I say something racist. Absolve Kyrie because Jerry Jones did something.

An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

[td450]

Well, at least the NBA doesn’t care.

I wonder, if Gordon Hayward linked to a story advocating hatred toward Muslims, would the league do nothing?

I was looking back at this thread and noticed a second reference to Gordon Hayward. Why have you mentioned a white player (that hasn’t been on the team for years) twice in reference to Kyrie/Jaylen?

To me, this seems like Tucker Carlson’s “double standard” rhetoric. “What if a white guy did this?!?”

Why did Gordon make two appearances, and what does he have to do with Jaylen?

There is a double standard.

And this is why you keep trying to connect Jaylen (a player that some of us like) with Kyrie (a player that none of us like)?

Jaylen hasn’t been punished/cancelled and needs to be?

I wasn't going to add this, but the "What if a white guy did this?" needs to be addressed.

Generally speaking, the claims of jewish conspiracy are absurd. It should be noted however that almost all of the weird accusations specific to jews that don't make sense in any other context have actually been done by the larger white society and endured by black people. There was a racially driven intergenerational plot to oppress black people. It all really did happen to them.

Processing that is different, and no matter how woke you are, an overtly race based history that painful brings you very close up to turning it back as racism and anger. Sprinkle in a little Christian faith teaching you a desire to be one of God's chosen people (something many people get caught up in), and you are 95% of the way there. It only takes a nudge to start looking at any particular negative myths towards subgroups of white people, and applying them to the very real pain your families have endured.

That doesn't change the fact that all of this is awful and must be spoken out against. But it does mean that we need to be a bit less sanctimonious about it when it happens. For white people this is all fragility and self indulgence. For black people it's blame for something very real that gets deflected in the wrong direction.

[Roy H.]

Well, at least the NBA doesn’t care.

I wonder, if Gordon Hayward linked to a story advocating hatred toward Muslims, would the league do nothing?

I was looking back at this thread and noticed a second reference to Gordon Hayward. Why have you mentioned a white player (that hasn’t been on the team for years) twice in reference to Kyrie/Jaylen?

To me, this seems like Tucker Carlson’s “double standard” rhetoric. “What if a white guy did this?!?”

Why did Gordon make two appearances, and what does he have to do with Jaylen?

There is a double standard.

And this is why you keep trying to connect Jaylen (a player that some of us like) with Kyrie (a player that none of us like)?

Jaylen hasn’t been punished/cancelled and needs to be?

I wasn't going to add this, but the "What if a white guy did this?" needs to be addressed.

Generally speaking, the claims of jewish conspiracy are absurd. It should be noted however that almost all of the weird accusations specific to jews that don't make sense in any other context have actually been done by the larger white society and endured by black people. There was a racially driven intergenerational plot to oppress black people. It all really did happen to them.

Processing that is different, and no matter how woke you are, an overtly race based history that painful brings you very close up to turning it back as racism and anger. Sprinkle in a little Christian faith teaching you a desire to be one of God's chosen people (something many people get caught up in), and you are 95% of the way there. It only takes a nudge to start looking at any particular negative myths towards subgroups of white people, and applying them to the very real pain your families have endured.

That doesn't change the fact that all of this is awful and must be spoken out against. But it does mean that we need to be a bit less sanctimonious about it when it happens. For white people this is all fragility and self indulgence. For black people it's blame for something very real that gets deflected in the wrong direction.

No, I think we can be sanctimonious.  Blacks aren't the only race that have suffered terribly, and certain black supremacists specifically targeting the Jews -- a race that Hitler tried to exterminate, and that has been subject to religion-based war and discrimination for millennia -- should be harshly criticized, without excuse.

I understand the need for grace and understanding, but when you start mitigating one group's racism, then you need to need to apply that standard equally.  Otherwise, we're left with a"hierarchy of woke-ism", where the actions of certain groups are excused, or even promoted, based upon level of grievance.  Blacks got screwed.  So did the Chinese, the Japanese, Native Americans, the Irish, immigrants in general and particularly Hispanics, the Jews, the homosexuals, etc., etc.

Also, I don't think this was your intent at all, but your first paragraph starts with saying most anti-Semitic conspiracy theories are nonsense, but then shifts to saying that blacks are truly aggrieved.  It's important to explicitly point out that Jews are not responsible for the suffering of black people.  People who connect that dot -- which has happened frequently in history -- shouldn't be given a pass.  Blaming the Jews for suffering is what leads to the Crusades, or the Holocaust, or millionaire basketball players praising anti-Semites.

[dannyboy35]

  Meanwhile, Mark Jackson is still being interviewed for coaching jobs and broadcasting every finals.    Way to go NBA. They really hate bigotry.

[Kernewek]

Well, at least the NBA doesn’t care.

I wonder, if Gordon Hayward linked to a story advocating hatred toward Muslims, would the league do nothing?

I was looking back at this thread and noticed a second reference to Gordon Hayward. Why have you mentioned a white player (that hasn’t been on the team for years) twice in reference to Kyrie/Jaylen?

To me, this seems like Tucker Carlson’s “double standard” rhetoric. “What if a white guy did this?!?”

Why did Gordon make two appearances, and what does he have to do with Jaylen?

There is a double standard.

And this is why you keep trying to connect Jaylen (a player that some of us like) with Kyrie (a player that none of us like)?

Jaylen hasn’t been punished/cancelled and needs to be?

I wasn't going to add this, but the "What if a white guy did this?" needs to be addressed.

Generally speaking, the claims of jewish conspiracy are absurd. It should be noted however that almost all of the weird accusations specific to jews that don't make sense in any other context have actually been done by the larger white society and endured by black people. There was a racially driven intergenerational plot to oppress black people. It all really did happen to them.

Processing that is different, and no matter how woke you are, an overtly race based history that painful brings you very close up to turning it back as racism and anger. Sprinkle in a little Christian faith teaching you a desire to be one of God's chosen people (something many people get caught up in), and you are 95% of the way there. It only takes a nudge to start looking at any particular negative myths towards subgroups of white people, and applying them to the very real pain your families have endured.

That doesn't change the fact that all of this is awful and must be spoken out against. But it does mean that we need to be a bit less sanctimonious about it when it happens. For white people this is all fragility and self indulgence. For black people it's blame for something very real that gets deflected in the wrong direction.

No, I think we can be sanctimonious.  Blacks aren't the only race that have suffered terribly, and certain black supremacists specifically targeting the Jews -- a race that Hitler tried to exterminate, and that has been subject to religion-based war and discrimination for millennia -- should be harshly criticized, without excuse.

I understand the need for grace and understanding, but when you start mitigating one group's racism, then you need to need to apply that standard equally.  Otherwise, we're left with a"hierarchy of woke-ism", where the actions of certain groups are excused, or even promoted, based upon level of grievance.  Blacks got screwed.  So did the Chinese, the Japanese, Native Americans, the Irish, immigrants in general and particularly Hispanics, the Jews, the homosexuals, etc., etc.

Also, I don't think this was your intent at all, but your first paragraph starts with saying most anti-Semitic conspiracy theories are nonsense, but then shifts to saying that blacks are truly aggrieved.  It's important to explicitly point out that Jews are not responsible for the suffering of black people.  People who connect that dot -- which has happened frequently in history -- shouldn't be given a pass.  Blaming the Jews for suffering is what leads to the Crusades, or the Holocaust, or millionaire basketball players praising anti-Semites.

I think you're talking past the point a little bit though Roy - specifically I don't think framing the scenario for racist behaviours and thoughts are the same as mitigating it.