Author Topic: Woj: Donovan Mitchell to Cavs  (Read 15162 times)

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Re: Woj: Donovan Mitchell to Cavs
« Reply #90 on: September 02, 2022, 01:26:56 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Why is Donovan Mitchell getting the superstar treatment? This is crazy..
3 consecutive All-Star appearances whilst averaging 25/5/4 over the period is good, but is it good enough for that many picks? Not too sure. Well done by Ainge
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Re: Woj: Donovan Mitchell to Cavs
« Reply #91 on: September 02, 2022, 10:31:01 AM »

Offline Who

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Too much focus on backcourt defense and not enough on backcourt offense IMO.

Donovan Mitchell is a ball-happy guard. So is Garland. Those two are going to have difficulty playing together.

This is not a case of one guy being CJ McCollum and happily taking a backseat to a Dame Lillard. This a PG who is used to controlling the offense. And a combo guard in Mitchell who is used to controlling the offense. Mitchell does not want to take a backseat to anybody. He wants the ball!

And if I am Garland and I am none too happy about some guy trying to force me off the ball. It is not like Mitchell is a highly efficient offensive player. His efficiency is only okay. It is fine to let such a player have as much of the ball on deficient offensive teams. It is another thing when you have another highly skilled offensive guard in Garland who needs a lot of the ball as well in order to be effective.

This partnership is not going to work. Yes there are defensive issues but the offensive issues are going to be even more important to the breakdown of that relationship.

Re: Woj: Donovan Mitchell to Cavs
« Reply #92 on: September 02, 2022, 10:35:02 AM »

Offline Who

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I like the new Utah roster. I think Sexton is closer to Donovan Mitchel as a player than most realize. What is he, like 90% of Mitchell except a few stellar playoff performances?

Sexton, Markannen, Beasley, THT, and Vanderbilt is a decent, young, proven core with room for upside. I like all of those players and think they all could be good rotation pieces on a good team. Combine them with prospects like NAW, Kessler, and Bolmaro and that's a good young core. Plus, they are likely to get more value from Conley, Bogdon, and Clarkson before its all said and done.

Yes, even though DA is clearing house, he is bringing back interesting young players.  Sexton, Marannen, and THT are not throw away busts...It would be funny if Utah is a better team than Clev this year.  I mean the odds are low, but it would be funny.

Sexton is nice, but I fully expect Utah to ease him back into playing after missing most of last season.  Utah wants Wembanyama, or at least to have the best lottery shot at him they can get.  I also think they'll try to move Markkanen for more picks.  Utah could turn it around pretty quickly, but this year will be like the 2013-2014 Celtics, with Sexton playing the part of a recovering Rondo.

Also, I don't know what people see in THT.  I see Marcus Smart-quality shooting without most of the good Marcus Smart things.  He shot 27% from 3 while taking a third of his shots from deep.  I get that he's not even 22, but is he really someone you want to pay $21 million to over the next two seasons if you aren't trying to tank?

I don't see it with any of those guys.

THT is a complete dud of a player.

Markkanen has talent but no guiding light / no leadership / no understanding of how to maximize his game. Instead he just becomes peripheral. But at least he has some talent aka there is some hope there. But really I would be just using him as a trade asset.

Sexton is another dud of a player. He can score and he can shoot but he can do nothing else. He cannot defend anyone. He gives up as many points on defense as he gets you on the other end. He cannot play the PG. He is selfish. Nobody likes playing with a shot-happy no defense small guard. Another guy who is worthless outside of possibly being a marginal trade asset at some point. And I do mean marginal because he it is a struggle to justify that contract they gave him. There won't be much of a market for him. You just have to hope there is 1 desperate team out there that will give up something for him at some point in his contract.

None of these guys are keepers. They are dump at earliest opportunity players.

Utah is looking at a 20-25 win season next year.

Re: Woj: Donovan Mitchell to Cavs
« Reply #93 on: September 02, 2022, 10:57:06 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Too much focus on backcourt defense and not enough on backcourt offense IMO.

Donovan Mitchell is a ball-happy guard. So is Garland. Those two are going to have difficulty playing together.

This is not a case of one guy being CJ McCollum and happily taking a backseat to a Dame Lillard. This a PG who is used to controlling the offense. And a combo guard in Mitchell who is used to controlling the offense. Mitchell does not want to take a backseat to anybody. He wants the ball!

And if I am Garland and I am none too happy about some guy trying to force me off the ball. It is not like Mitchell is a highly efficient offensive player. His efficiency is only okay. It is fine to let such a player have as much of the ball on deficient offensive teams. It is another thing when you have another highly skilled offensive guard in Garland who needs a lot of the ball as well in order to be effective.

This partnership is not going to work. Yes there are defensive issues but the offensive issues are going to be even more important to the breakdown of that relationship.
Spot on.  Lillard was clearly the #1 in the Lillard/McCollum duo.  There's not a clear #1 in the Mitchell/Garland duo. 

Re: Woj: Donovan Mitchell to Cavs
« Reply #94 on: September 02, 2022, 11:43:27 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I have questions about the Garland Mitchell fit also but they are both really good. CLE will be a good team. I think Garland will be fine to share the scoring.

For UTA, they get two good young players on reasonable contracts plus a prospect, in addition to a bunch of what will likely be middling picks (as I expect CLE to be no worse than decent). Good balance for them.  I doubt they outright tank. They can trade up with all their picks.

Re: Woj: Donovan Mitchell to Cavs
« Reply #95 on: September 02, 2022, 11:47:26 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Garland and Sexton have been playing together for several years and it worked fine for the Cavs.  Last year to start the year they were 6-3 before Sexton went down.  Now the prior year the Cavs weren't very good, but they didn't have Mobley who really is the key (along with Allen), however the Sexton/Garland duo worked just fine.  Sexton is basically a lesser version of Mitchell.  I'm not really worried at all about the pairing fitting together.  They should be fine and it is a clear upgrade for the Cavs in going from Sexton to Mitchell.
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Re: Woj: Donovan Mitchell to Cavs
« Reply #96 on: September 02, 2022, 12:27:50 PM »

Offline CelticsWhat35

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Garland and Sexton have been playing together for several years and it worked fine for the Cavs.  Last year to start the year they were 6-3 before Sexton went down.  Now the prior year the Cavs weren't very good, but they didn't have Mobley who really is the key (along with Allen), however the Sexton/Garland duo worked just fine.  Sexton is basically a lesser version of Mitchell.  I'm not really worried at all about the pairing fitting together.  They should be fine and it is a clear upgrade for the Cavs in going from Sexton to Mitchell.

They played together for two seasons on horrible Cavs teams and then Sexton only played 11 games last year.

Re: Woj: Donovan Mitchell to Cavs
« Reply #97 on: September 02, 2022, 12:55:26 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Garland and Sexton have been playing together for several years and it worked fine for the Cavs.  Last year to start the year they were 6-3 before Sexton went down.  Now the prior year the Cavs weren't very good, but they didn't have Mobley who really is the key (along with Allen), however the Sexton/Garland duo worked just fine.  Sexton is basically a lesser version of Mitchell.  I'm not really worried at all about the pairing fitting together.  They should be fine and it is a clear upgrade for the Cavs in going from Sexton to Mitchell.

They played together for two seasons on horrible Cavs teams and then Sexton only played 11 games last year.
Sure as young players growing, but they also played fine and were not the reason the Cavs weren't any good.  That was the point I was making. 
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Re: Woj: Donovan Mitchell to Cavs
« Reply #98 on: September 02, 2022, 04:56:13 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Interesting, Mobley is now ineligible for the rookie max extension in 2024 because they traded for Mitchell.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/268515/Evan-Mobley-Ineligible-For-Rookie-Scale-Max-In-2024-After-Cavs-Traded-For-Donovan-Mitchell

Re: Woj: Donovan Mitchell to Cavs
« Reply #99 on: September 02, 2022, 05:04:03 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Interesting thought exercise: If Mitchell was worth three far out unprotected first and two far out(2025 or later) pick swaps and Gobert worth 4 first rounders(3 of which are far out) with a far out pick swap

What is Durant worth?
What is Jaylen Brown worth?

How would those respective worths for both players have affected as any talks Brooklyn and Boston had?

Wow, what does that make Tatum worth?


Re: Woj: Donovan Mitchell to Cavs
« Reply #100 on: September 02, 2022, 09:04:20 PM »

Offline CelticSooner

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Listening to all these basketball podcasts the Cavs are now entering overrated category. Yes they have a nice young core but Mitchell ain’t that guy. There is still another move to make there.

Re: Woj: Donovan Mitchell to Cavs
« Reply #101 on: September 03, 2022, 12:52:06 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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Garland and Sexton have been playing together for several years and it worked fine for the Cavs.  Last year to start the year they were 6-3 before Sexton went down.  Now the prior year the Cavs weren't very good, but they didn't have Mobley who really is the key (along with Allen), however the Sexton/Garland duo worked just fine.  Sexton is basically a lesser version of Mitchell.  I'm not really worried at all about the pairing fitting together.  They should be fine and it is a clear upgrade for the Cavs in going from Sexton to Mitchell.

They played together for two seasons on horrible Cavs teams and then Sexton only played 11 games last year.

Yeah they were not a good combo and part of the reason they let sexton enter restricted free agency. Not getting arguing how it worked

Re: Woj: Donovan Mitchell to Cavs
« Reply #102 on: September 03, 2022, 01:16:04 AM »

Online SparzWizard

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Interesting thought exercise: If Mitchell was worth three far out unprotected first and two far out(2025 or later) pick swaps and Gobert worth 4 first rounders(3 of which are far out) with a far out pick swap

What is Durant worth?
What is Jaylen Brown worth?

How would those respective worths for both players have affected as any talks Brooklyn and Boston had?

Wow, what does that make Tatum worth?

5-unprotected first-round picks and four role-players including one all-star? Or 2-unprotected picks, a generational-talented player, and two role players. Or am I being too generous


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Re: Woj: Donovan Mitchell to Cavs
« Reply #103 on: September 03, 2022, 06:54:18 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Interesting, Mobley is now ineligible for the rookie max extension in 2024 because they traded for Mitchell.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/268515/Evan-Mobley-Ineligible-For-Rookie-Scale-Max-In-2024-After-Cavs-Traded-For-Donovan-Mitchell
Those really are dumb rules. I mean the Nets couldn't acquire Bam because of Simmons either.  Just dumb.
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Re: Woj: Donovan Mitchell to Cavs
« Reply #104 on: September 03, 2022, 09:36:54 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Interesting, Mobley is now ineligible for the rookie max extension in 2024 because they traded for Mitchell.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/268515/Evan-Mobley-Ineligible-For-Rookie-Scale-Max-In-2024-After-Cavs-Traded-For-Donovan-Mitchell
Those really are dumb rules. I mean the Nets couldn't acquire Bam because of Simmons either.  Just dumb.

I disagree. I think this kind of rule prevents the bigger franchises from using smaller markets as farm systems. Maybe there's a better way to do that, but it seems to make sense to me.