Celtics Owner Flat Out Denies

[BringToughnessBack]

that we even spoke about Durant! Classic case of being used and deception by the Nets.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/celtics-co-owner-steve-pagliuca-193000317.html

[Roy H.]

Does he flat out deny it?  Here's what I'm seeing:

“Wyc (Grousbeck, fellow Celtics owner) and I pay close attention to what’s going on, and if we haven’t heard about it, it’s probably not going to happen. But, I am shocked by some of the things I read and then I talk to the guys and it turns out we never even had a discussion about that player. So, pro sports is funny. A lot of times clubs are trying to create a market to make a trade, and if they say we’re interested, that’s really maybe to get another club to make a trade with them because they think we’re going to take the player.”

I'm not seeing a denial, let alone a flat-out denial. 

[Moranis]

Does he flat out deny it?  Here's what I'm seeing:

“Wyc (Grousbeck, fellow Celtics owner) and I pay close attention to what’s going on, and if we haven’t heard about it, it’s probably not going to happen. But, I am shocked by some of the things I read and then I talk to the guys and it turns out we never even had a discussion about that player. So, pro sports is funny. A lot of times clubs are trying to create a market to make a trade, and if they say we’re interested, that’s really maybe to get another club to make a trade with them because they think we’re going to take the player.”

I'm not seeing a denial, let alone a flat-out denial.

well he said they never even had a discussion about that player, but it is not entirely clear who he was referring to with respect to the discussion. 

[Roy H.]

Does he flat out deny it?  Here's what I'm seeing:

“Wyc (Grousbeck, fellow Celtics owner) and I pay close attention to what’s going on, and if we haven’t heard about it, it’s probably not going to happen. But, I am shocked by some of the things I read and then I talk to the guys and it turns out we never even had a discussion about that player. So, pro sports is funny. A lot of times clubs are trying to create a market to make a trade, and if they say we’re interested, that’s really maybe to get another club to make a trade with them because they think we’re going to take the player.”

I'm not seeing a denial, let alone a flat-out denial.

well he said they never even had a discussion about that player, but it is not entirely clear who he was referring to with respect to the discussion.

Yeah.  "That player" could be any player in the entire tenure of Pags' ownership.  None of that quote is framed in the context of the present.  It's just something that happens sometimes, or has happened at least least once.

[nickagneta]

Does he flat out deny it?  Here's what I'm seeing:

“Wyc (Grousbeck, fellow Celtics owner) and I pay close attention to what’s going on, and if we haven’t heard about it, it’s probably not going to happen. But, I am shocked by some of the things I read and then I talk to the guys and it turns out we never even had a discussion about that player. So, pro sports is funny. A lot of times clubs are trying to create a market to make a trade, and if they say we’re interested, that’s really maybe to get another club to make a trade with them because they think we’re going to take the player.”

I'm not seeing a denial, let alone a flat-out denial.

Roy, it's not like he was talking in hypotheticals. It's was a direct reply to the question on Boston's dealings about Durant for Brown. Sure sounds like a denial to me.

As I have said elsewhere, Shams and Woj were used on this and got it wrong.

[Roy H.]

Does he flat out deny it?  Here's what I'm seeing:

“Wyc (Grousbeck, fellow Celtics owner) and I pay close attention to what’s going on, and if we haven’t heard about it, it’s probably not going to happen. But, I am shocked by some of the things I read and then I talk to the guys and it turns out we never even had a discussion about that player. So, pro sports is funny. A lot of times clubs are trying to create a market to make a trade, and if they say we’re interested, that’s really maybe to get another club to make a trade with them because they think we’re going to take the player.”

I'm not seeing a denial, let alone a flat-out denial.

Roy, it's not like he was talking in hypotheticals. It's was a direct reply to the question on Boston's dealings about Durant for Brown. Sure sounds like a denial to me.

As I have said elsewhere, Shams and Woj were used on this and got it wrong.

No, it's weasel language.  It's a non-denial denial.   If the Celts never mentioned Brown, say it.  If the Celts never contacted the Nets about Durant, say it. 

Also, did you watch the interview?  It wasn't really a direct reply.  The question he was responding to was, "Are you aware of twitter?  How much are you aware of what's being released on that?"

The start of his answer, which the article didn't quote, was: 

"Oh, absolutely.  And many times I read on twitter that XYZ player is coming to us..."

Q:  Do you call Brad right away?

A: "I used to call him reasonably quickly... 

Then he says what's quoted in the article.  So, the reference is to XYZ player he read was coming to us on Twitter.

[nickagneta]

Does he flat out deny it?  Here's what I'm seeing:

“Wyc (Grousbeck, fellow Celtics owner) and I pay close attention to what’s going on, and if we haven’t heard about it, it’s probably not going to happen. But, I am shocked by some of the things I read and then I talk to the guys and it turns out we never even had a discussion about that player. So, pro sports is funny. A lot of times clubs are trying to create a market to make a trade, and if they say we’re interested, that’s really maybe to get another club to make a trade with them because they think we’re going to take the player.”

I'm not seeing a denial, let alone a flat-out denial.

Roy, it's not like he was talking in hypotheticals. It's was a direct reply to the question on Boston's dealings about Durant for Brown. Sure sounds like a denial to me.

As I have said elsewhere, Shams and Woj were used on this and got it wrong.

No, it's weasel language.  It's a non-denial denial.   If the Celts never mentioned Brown, say it.  If the Celts never contacted the Nets about Durant, say it. 

Also, did you watch the interview?  It wasn't really a direct reply.  The question he was responding to was, "Are you aware of twitter?  How much are you aware of what's being released on that?"

The start of his answer, which the article didn't quote, was: 

"Oh, absolutely.  And many times I read on twitter that XYZ player is coming to us..."

Q:  Do you call Brad right away?

A: "I used to call him reasonably quickly... 

Then he says what's quoted in the article.  So, the reference is to XYZ player he read was coming to us on Twitter.

So the entire part where the female commentator said "We're talking about Kevin Durant and Jaylen Brown!" just seconds prior to where you decided to start the conversation should be ignored? Pagliuca and the interview crew knew exactly who was being discussed.

[Roy H.]

Does he flat out deny it?  Here's what I'm seeing:

“Wyc (Grousbeck, fellow Celtics owner) and I pay close attention to what’s going on, and if we haven’t heard about it, it’s probably not going to happen. But, I am shocked by some of the things I read and then I talk to the guys and it turns out we never even had a discussion about that player. So, pro sports is funny. A lot of times clubs are trying to create a market to make a trade, and if they say we’re interested, that’s really maybe to get another club to make a trade with them because they think we’re going to take the player.”

I'm not seeing a denial, let alone a flat-out denial.

Roy, it's not like he was talking in hypotheticals. It's was a direct reply to the question on Boston's dealings about Durant for Brown. Sure sounds like a denial to me.

As I have said elsewhere, Shams and Woj were used on this and got it wrong.

No, it's weasel language.  It's a non-denial denial.   If the Celts never mentioned Brown, say it.  If the Celts never contacted the Nets about Durant, say it. 

Also, did you watch the interview?  It wasn't really a direct reply.  The question he was responding to was, "Are you aware of twitter?  How much are you aware of what's being released on that?"

The start of his answer, which the article didn't quote, was: 

"Oh, absolutely.  And many times I read on twitter that XYZ player is coming to us..."

Q:  Do you call Brad right away?

A: "I used to call him reasonably quickly... 

Then he says what's quoted in the article.  So, the reference is to XYZ player he read was coming to us on Twitter.

So the entire part where the female commentator said "We're talking about Kevin Durant and Jaylen Brown!" just seconds prior to where you decided to start the conversation should be ignored? Pagliuca and the interview crew knew exactly who was being discussed.

Multiple questions before, in the same sentence Marcus was mentioned?

[Moranis]

Does he flat out deny it?  Here's what I'm seeing:

“Wyc (Grousbeck, fellow Celtics owner) and I pay close attention to what’s going on, and if we haven’t heard about it, it’s probably not going to happen. But, I am shocked by some of the things I read and then I talk to the guys and it turns out we never even had a discussion about that player. So, pro sports is funny. A lot of times clubs are trying to create a market to make a trade, and if they say we’re interested, that’s really maybe to get another club to make a trade with them because they think we’re going to take the player.”

I'm not seeing a denial, let alone a flat-out denial.

well he said they never even had a discussion about that player, but it is not entirely clear who he was referring to with respect to the discussion.

Yeah.  "That player" could be any player in the entire tenure of Pags' ownership.  None of that quote is framed in the context of the present.  It's just something that happens sometimes, or has happened at least least once.

No I meant who was having the discussion.  It was obvious the player was Durant, I was referring to who he meant was having the discussion.  It is entirely possible that he was not involved in any discussions about Durant, but that doesn't mean discussions between the Celtics and Nets regarding Durant weren't happening.

In fact, I think the easiest read of that quote is the "we" is Pags and Wyc.

[Celtics4ever]

I buy it never put anything past NYC guys in terms of the rumor mill.

[hwangjini_1]

Does he flat out deny it?  Here's what I'm seeing:

“Wyc (Grousbeck, fellow Celtics owner) and I pay close attention to what’s going on, and if we haven’t heard about it, it’s probably not going to happen. But, I am shocked by some of the things I read and then I talk to the guys and it turns out we never even had a discussion about that player. So, pro sports is funny. A lot of times clubs are trying to create a market to make a trade, and if they say we’re interested, that’s really maybe to get another club to make a trade with them because they think we’re going to take the player.”

I'm not seeing a denial, let alone a flat-out denial.

well he said they never even had a discussion about that player, but it is not entirely clear who he was referring to with respect to the discussion.

Yeah.  "That player" could be any player in the entire tenure of Pags' ownership.  None of that quote is framed in the context of the present.  It's just something that happens sometimes, or has happened at least least once.

No I meant who was having the discussion.  It was obvious the player was Durant, I was referring to who he meant was having the discussion.  It is entirely possible that he was not involved in any discussions about Durant, but that doesn't mean discussions between the Celtics and Nets regarding Durant weren't happening.

In fact, I think the easiest read of that quote is the "we" is Pags and Wyc.

after reading the posts by both of you, clearly the interview was simply a disguised Rorschach test. 

[nickagneta]

Does he flat out deny it?  Here's what I'm seeing:

“Wyc (Grousbeck, fellow Celtics owner) and I pay close attention to what’s going on, and if we haven’t heard about it, it’s probably not going to happen. But, I am shocked by some of the things I read and then I talk to the guys and it turns out we never even had a discussion about that player. So, pro sports is funny. A lot of times clubs are trying to create a market to make a trade, and if they say we’re interested, that’s really maybe to get another club to make a trade with them because they think we’re going to take the player.”

I'm not seeing a denial, let alone a flat-out denial.

Roy, it's not like he was talking in hypotheticals. It's was a direct reply to the question on Boston's dealings about Durant for Brown. Sure sounds like a denial to me.

As I have said elsewhere, Shams and Woj were used on this and got it wrong.

No, it's weasel language.  It's a non-denial denial.   If the Celts never mentioned Brown, say it.  If the Celts never contacted the Nets about Durant, say it. 

Also, did you watch the interview?  It wasn't really a direct reply.  The question he was responding to was, "Are you aware of twitter?  How much are you aware of what's being released on that?"

The start of his answer, which the article didn't quote, was: 

"Oh, absolutely.  And many times I read on twitter that XYZ player is coming to us..."

Q:  Do you call Brad right away?

A: "I used to call him reasonably quickly... 

Then he says what's quoted in the article.  So, the reference is to XYZ player he read was coming to us on Twitter.

So the entire part where the female commentator said "We're talking about Kevin Durant and Jaylen Brown!" just seconds prior to where you decided to start the conversation should be ignored? Pagliuca and the interview crew knew exactly who was being discussed.

Multiple questions before, in the same sentence Marcus was mentioned?

Literally only seconds passed, like around 30. I really don't think the ability to retain and comprehend who was being talked about by the people involved disappeared in that timeframe. Everyone knew who was being discussed, well, apparently some who watched the video didn't, but everyone in the discussion did.

Pagliuca denied the report. Multiple reports out of Boston are saying similar things. Woj and Shams were fed bogus info out of Brooklyn because it was in the Nets best interest.

[Vermont Green]

Isn't the legal term plausible deniability?

The Celtics owners are not going start confirming and denying every rumor they get asked about.  They weren't going to come right out and deny this one.  But they came pretty close to it.  Basically implied that he saw it on Twitter but didn't even bother to call Stevens.

Now that doesn't mean that Stevens didn't talk to BKN but it probably means that whatever discussion may have taken place was not nearly serious enough so that the owner's were brought into the discussion.

I am not surprised by any of this.  The most likely scenario was that the Celtics did due diligence (that is a legal term too, right?) and part of that was putting some broad outlines out there, but I did not believe and still don't believe that either party was serious about a trade.  I don't even understand what the debate is.  Are people upset or critical that the Celtics may have been willing to consider Brown in a trade for Durant or that they were never actually serious about trading for Durant?

It seems to go both ways.  Celtics don't want to go all in, weren't willing to go get Durant, Durant would mean a title.  Or, Celtics have messed up Brown by even discussing him with the Nets and now he is mad and going to walk.

[#1P4P]

My confirmation bias likes this.

I mentioned the reasons a Celtics JB offer was asinine and compared it to the, even worse, GSW rumors.

The Warriors just won the Championship, are poised to contend now, and for the next decade with a mix of elite veteran talent and high level prospects, yet they even entertained trading for a player that left and hasn’t proven to be durable post 2019. Insert Celtics, Championship finalists, and prime, young veteran talent and you get the picture.

The Nets misinformed high profile reporters fishing for comparable offers from the Celtics and other teams and trying to sour the Boston-Brown relationship in the process.

[ozgod]

My personal opinion, unsupported by anything other than my own gut feel, is that we did speak about a potential trade, but only in very general terms, like:

"Hey Sean it's Brad. I hear that KD's looking for a trade, what are you guys looking for?"

"Well we're looking at at least one All Star and maybe a couple rotation players and some picks, given KD is an All-Universe player."

"So hypothetically speaking someone like Jaylen and maybe someone like Derrick? And maybe a couple picks?"

"A Jaylen caliber player would fit the bill, but White wouldn't be enough, he's more of a sub. We'd be looking at someone like Marcus. And picks. That's something to build on I would imagine."

"Gotcha. Well Marcus is kind of off limits, and we value Jaylen very highly. We were just kicking the tires to see what type of deal you were looking for in any case. That's my job after all. Good luck with it all."

That's what I feel went down hypothetically. And I have zero problem with that. Brad's job is to do due diligence and be informed on the market. But it wouldn't surprise me if the Nets or KD's agent or both decided to make a lot more of it than it was, to keep KD's market going.