New Celtics / Durant rumor

[slamtheking]

For those who want to hear Steve Bulpett carry water for the Celtics organization on the Durant rumors:

https://youtu.be/2ETTA_r_pdU

I just don't buy the premise that Boston wouldn't be better with Durant over the next couple of seasons if they traded Brown and Smart for him, which is seemingly what 2 of the 3 guys were saying.  Evan agrees though, Boston is better with Durant over the next couple of seasons than they'd be without making the trade.  He was concerned about the long term, but seemed to be the only one of the 3 that acknowledged that Boston would be better in the short term. 

So it really comes down to whether or not you think Boston is good enough as presently constructed to realistically win the title over the next couple of seasons.  For me that answer is no, which is why I'd make the trade because with Durant for Brown and Smart, Boston is by far the best team in the sport and would be a heavy heavy favorite to win the title.

Durant would definitely be the best player in the deal. However, I feel like the team would be out of balance (in a traditional player position point of view). I would want to know Brad's next move to help balance out the roster, by suring up the backcourt. I prefer Brongdon to be the backup due to his injury history.

At the very least, we'd need to get Curry back in any deal.

I suspect that would be a requirement something like Durant, Curry for Brown, Smart, Grant Williams, 2 1st's. 

So post-trade (with 3 open spots)

Starters - White, Brogdon, Durant, Tatum, Rob
Main Rotation - Curry, Pritchard, Gallo, Horford
Deep Bench - Hauser, Vonleh, Kornet, Kabengele, Davison

Add via veteran minimum guys like Howard and Anthony, and keep 1 spot open and I think that team is much better positioned to win a title this season.

Yeah, I'd be very tempted.  I'd ask them to throw in Cam Thomas, would sign one of DMC / Whiteside / Howard; and one of Lamb / Snell; and D.J. Augustin, leaving us with:

Timelord / Horford / Cousins
Durant / Gallinari / Vonleh
Tatum / Thomas / Hauser
Curry / White / Snell
Brogdon / Pritchard / Augustin

2-way:  Kabengele, Davinson

It's fantasy land, but that's better than what we've got right now.

Is it a fantasy land though?  I suspect the Nets would do Durant, Curry, Thomas for Brown, Smart, G. Williams, and some 1st's.  Why wouldn't they?  That is a great long term trade for them, while also being a great short term trade for the Celtics.

of course it's a great deal for the Nets.  rid themselves of a malcontent who hasn't played a second of his new contract before wanting to skip town for a young all-star and the DPOY and picks.  I don't like this deal due to Durant's lack of reliability.  I'm under no illusion that the 2-year window being bandied about for Durant is one he'd actually commit to before wanting to jump ship (much less the full 4 year deal).

[Ed Monix]

Shams Charania of The Athletic and Stadium reported Monday that at least three teams remain in pursuit of the 33-year-old forward.

"The [Boston] Celtics, Toronto Raptors and Miami Heat remain the most significant candidates to acquire Durant, sources said," Charania wrote.

Last month, Charania reported that Boston had offered a package centered around All-Star forward Jaylen Brown for Durant. In his latest report, he said the Celtics' offer is "seen as a viable deal," and he pointed to Durant's relationship with Boston head coach Ime Udoka. The two of them spent time together when Udoka was an assistant for the Nets for a year and again with Team USA for the 2020 Tokyo Olympics.

However, Charania noted that Brooklyn has a significant asking price for the 12-time All-Star, stating that the front office has "made clear privately that they will take every last asset from a team that trades for Durant."

According to Charania, Durant had a face to face meeting with Nets governor Joe Tsai over the weekend and reiterated his desire to be traded. He reportedly also presented Tsai with an ultimatum to "choose between Durant or the pairing of general manager Sean Marks and coach Steve Nash."

Durant initially requested to be traded from Brooklyn on June 30. Despite entering the first year of a four-year, $198 million contract extension, Durant "stated he does not have faith in the team’s direction" in his meeting with Tsai, per Charania.

[liam]

For those who want to hear Steve Bulpett carry water for the Celtics organization on the Durant rumors:

https://youtu.be/2ETTA_r_pdU

I just don't buy the premise that Boston wouldn't be better with Durant over the next couple of seasons if they traded Brown and Smart for him, which is seemingly what 2 of the 3 guys were saying.  Evan agrees though, Boston is better with Durant over the next couple of seasons than they'd be without making the trade.  He was concerned about the long term, but seemed to be the only one of the 3 that acknowledged that Boston would be better in the short term. 

So it really comes down to whether or not you think Boston is good enough as presently constructed to realistically win the title over the next couple of seasons.  For me that answer is no, which is why I'd make the trade because with Durant for Brown and Smart, Boston is by far the best team in the sport and would be a heavy heavy favorite to win the title.

Durant would definitely be the best player in the deal. However, I feel like the team would be out of balance (in a traditional player position point of view). I would want to know Brad's next move to help balance out the roster, by suring up the backcourt. I prefer Brongdon to be the backup due to his injury history.

At the very least, we'd need to get Curry back in any deal.

I suspect that would be a requirement something like Durant, Curry for Brown, Smart, Grant Williams, 2 1st's. 

So post-trade (with 3 open spots)

Starters - White, Brogdon, Durant, Tatum, Rob
Main Rotation - Curry, Pritchard, Gallo, Horford
Deep Bench - Hauser, Vonleh, Kornet, Kabengele, Davison

Add via veteran minimum guys like Howard and Anthony, and keep 1 spot open and I think that team is much better positioned to win a title this season.

Yeah, I'd be very tempted.  I'd ask them to throw in Cam Thomas, would sign one of DMC / Whiteside / Howard; and one of Lamb / Snell; and D.J. Augustin, leaving us with:

Timelord / Horford / Cousins
Durant / Gallinari / Vonleh
Tatum / Thomas / Hauser
Curry / White / Snell
Brogdon / Pritchard / Augustin

2-way:  Kabengele, Davinson

It's fantasy land, but that's better than what we've got right now.

Is it a fantasy land though?  I suspect the Nets would do Durant, Curry, Thomas for Brown, Smart, G. Williams, and some 1st's.  Why wouldn't they?  That is a great long term trade for them, while also being a great short term trade for the Celtics.

of course it's a great deal for the Nets.  rid themselves of a malcontent who hasn't played a second of his new contract before wanting to skip town for a young all-star and the DPOY and picks.  I don't like this deal due to Durant's lack of reliability.  I'm under no illusion that the 2-year window being bandied about for Durant is one he'd actually commit to before wanting to jump ship (much less the full 4 year deal).

I agree Durant has 4 years left on his contract and he's 34. On top of that, he's only played in 90 games in the last 3 seasons. We already had a big baby here in Boston and don't need another one.

[Who]

According to Charania, Durant had a face to face meeting with Nets governor Joe Tsai over the weekend and reiterated his desire to be traded. He reportedly also presented Tsai with an ultimatum to "choose between Durant or the pairing of general manager Sean Marks and coach Steve Nash."

Good for Durant. Those guys need to go. They created all this instability and they need to pay for it.

[tenn_smoothie]

We work through these past years of catastrophic injuries, bad team chemistry, me-first players, awkward lineups, a complete nutcase for a point guard, losing all-star talent to free agency with zero return, a very good coach who was too soft to fully implement his strategies or control his players bad habits, a first-year coach who has shown promise but still has significant questions and ownership who has finally shown a willingness to pay for a team that is a true contender ...........

All this to finally smooth out the chemistry issues, acquire and coach players to pull in the same direction, make significant but far from perfect reductions of self-destructive basketball habits, create the league's top defense and a very competitive trip to the finals ........

And we want to tear all this down to chase a flaky 34-year old injury prone malcontent for maybe two years of title contention ??

No Thank You !!!!

[Silas]

We work through these past years of catastrophic injuries, bad team chemistry, me-first players, awkward lineups, a complete nutcase for a point guard, losing all-star talent to free agency with zero return, a very good coach who was too soft to fully implement his strategies or control his players bad habits, a first-year coach who has shown promise but still has significant questions and ownership who has finally shown a willingness to pay for a team that is a true contender ...........

All this to finally smooth out the chemistry issues, acquire and coach players to pull in the same direction, make significant but far from perfect reductions of self-destructive basketball habits, create the league's top defense and a very competitive trip to the finals ........

And we want to tear all this down to chase a flaky 34-year old injury prone malcontent for maybe two years of title contention ??

No Thank You !!!!

Seems obvious, forget Durant!

[Neurotic Guy]

We work through these past years of catastrophic injuries, bad team chemistry, me-first players, awkward lineups, a complete nutcase for a point guard, losing all-star talent to free agency with zero return, a very good coach who was too soft to fully implement his strategies or control his players bad habits, a first-year coach who has shown promise but still has significant questions and ownership who has finally shown a willingness to pay for a team that is a true contender ...........

All this to finally smooth out the chemistry issues, acquire and coach players to pull in the same direction, make significant but far from perfect reductions of self-destructive basketball habits, create the league's top defense and a very competitive trip to the finals ........

And we want to tear all this down to chase a flaky 34-year old injury prone malcontent for maybe two years of title contention ??

No Thank You !!!!

Seems obvious, forget Durant!

I’m on board with no Durant but as I said earlier in the thread - if a trade is made it’ll be a matter of seconds till I’m thinking about how dominant Tatum, Durant, and Brogdon will be.

[Roy H.]

I think the longevity of Horford needs to be factored in.  Perhaps we only have a two-year window, regardless of what happens with Durant / JB.

[Vermont Green]

According to Charania, Durant had a face to face meeting with Nets governor Joe Tsai over the weekend and reiterated his desire to be traded. He reportedly also presented Tsai with an ultimatum to "choose between Durant or the pairing of general manager Sean Marks and coach Steve Nash."

Good for Durant. Those guys need to go. They created all this instability and they need to pay for it.

The biggest source of the instability was Kyrie and Kyrie was Durant's guy.  And was Durant against trading to get Harden?  I doubt it.  If Kyrie hadn't sat out half the games, Harden might still be on the Nets, and they might have contended for a title.

So then Harden forces his way out and it is not Durant's fault or Kyrie's fault, but the GM's and the Coach's fault?

I am actually a little sad to see Durant stoop to this low level.  I always liked his game and though he was a good guy.  At this point, I want no part.  He wants to swoop in a ride the Celtics to a title like he did in GSW.  How can anyone be sure that you would get anything out of him (or more than we get out of Brown and White) before he flakes out again?

[Celtics2021]

I think the longevity of Horford needs to be factored in.  Perhaps we only have a two-year window, regardless of what happens with Durant / JB.

I don't think one can ignore Horford's age, but at the same time he's our 4th-best player when healthy?  5th?  Maybe 6th depending on what a healthier Brogdon looks like (if we get one)?  He's good, but I don't think he's window-defining.  Tatum and Brown are the primary structures of that window.  Smart is to a lesser degree, as is Rob, with Rob having a chance to overtake Smart with a season that shows last year was no fluke and he has fully recovered.  Horford is a 4th or 5th starter, and while I love him, championship teams usually rotate through players those without their window closing.

The window closes if JB walks, so if the Celtics think he's walking in two years, trading for Durant could make sense, because Durant opens the window wider over those same two years.  But Horford really shouldn't factor into the window discussion.  He's not foundational at this point in his career.

[Roy H.]

I think the longevity of Horford needs to be factored in.  Perhaps we only have a two-year window, regardless of what happens with Durant / JB.

I don't think one can ignore Horford's age, but at the same time he's our 4th-best player when healthy?  5th?  Maybe 6th depending on what a healthier Brogdon looks like (if we get one)?  He's good, but I don't think he's window-defining.  Tatum and Brown are the primary structures of that window.  Smart is to a lesser degree, as is Rob, with Rob having a chance to overtake Smart with a season that shows last year was no fluke and he has fully recovered.  Horford is a 4th or 5th starter, and while I love him, championship teams usually rotate through players those without their window closing.

The window closes if JB walks, so if the Celtics think he's walking in two years, trading for Durant could make sense, because Durant opens the window wider over those same two years.  But Horford really shouldn't factor into the window discussion.  He's not foundational at this point in his career.

I think you’re underrating hoe difficult it will be to maintain our defensive identity and size advantage without Horford.  We just don’t have a viable replacement for him.

[Vermont Green]

I think the longevity of Horford needs to be factored in.  Perhaps we only have a two-year window, regardless of what happens with Durant / JB.

I don't think one can ignore Horford's age, but at the same time he's our 4th-best player when healthy?  5th?  Maybe 6th depending on what a healthier Brogdon looks like (if we get one)?  He's good, but I don't think he's window-defining.  Tatum and Brown are the primary structures of that window.  Smart is to a lesser degree, as is Rob, with Rob having a chance to overtake Smart with a season that shows last year was no fluke and he has fully recovered.  Horford is a 4th or 5th starter, and while I love him, championship teams usually rotate through players those without their window closing.

The window closes if JB walks, so if the Celtics think he's walking in two years, trading for Durant could make sense, because Durant opens the window wider over those same two years.  But Horford really shouldn't factor into the window discussion.  He's not foundational at this point in his career.

Yes, exactly, I agree with this.  I don't trade for Durant because Horford is getting old.

[Neurotic Guy]

I think the longevity of Horford needs to be factored in.  Perhaps we only have a two-year window, regardless of what happens with Durant / JB.

I don't think one can ignore Horford's age, but at the same time he's our 4th-best player when healthy?  5th?  Maybe 6th depending on what a healthier Brogdon looks like (if we get one)?  He's good, but I don't think he's window-defining.  Tatum and Brown are the primary structures of that window.  Smart is to a lesser degree, as is Rob, with Rob having a chance to overtake Smart with a season that shows last year was no fluke and he has fully recovered.  Horford is a 4th or 5th starter, and while I love him, championship teams usually rotate through players those without their window closing.

The window closes if JB walks, so if the Celtics think he's walking in two years, trading for Durant could make sense, because Durant opens the window wider over those same two years.  But Horford really shouldn't factor into the window discussion.  He's not foundational at this point in his career.

My entire feeling about JB leaving and taking the championship window with him changes if 1) JT becomes a bonafide top 5 player and 2) Rob continues his growth and miraculously becomes less of an injury waiting to happen.  Of course there’s nothing to suggest that Rob could become durable.   But if he did, building around JT, Rob, Smart, Brogdon, White, Grant - isn’t necessarily a shattered window.

[Celtics2021]

I think the longevity of Horford needs to be factored in.  Perhaps we only have a two-year window, regardless of what happens with Durant / JB.

I don't think one can ignore Horford's age, but at the same time he's our 4th-best player when healthy?  5th?  Maybe 6th depending on what a healthier Brogdon looks like (if we get one)?  He's good, but I don't think he's window-defining.  Tatum and Brown are the primary structures of that window.  Smart is to a lesser degree, as is Rob, with Rob having a chance to overtake Smart with a season that shows last year was no fluke and he has fully recovered.  Horford is a 4th or 5th starter, and while I love him, championship teams usually rotate through players those without their window closing.

The window closes if JB walks, so if the Celtics think he's walking in two years, trading for Durant could make sense, because Durant opens the window wider over those same two years.  But Horford really shouldn't factor into the window discussion.  He's not foundational at this point in his career.

I think you’re underrating hoe difficult it will be to maintain our defensive identity and size advantage without Horford.  We just don’t have a viable replacement for him.

We don’t have an internal replacement for him, but again, most teams don’t have internal replacements for 4th or 5th starters, and can acquire them elsewhere, be it trade or free agency.  If the Celtics want to continue with a two big approach after Horford’s time is up, they will be able to acquire a replacement.  Derrick White plus a 1st will get you all kinds of PF-types through the February 2025 trade deadline, and the Celtics can make that move whenever it is apparent that they need to.

The window for Horford to be a starter on a title team is closing fast, but not the window for the Celtics.

[Who]

I am less interested in acquiring Kevin Durant since the acquisition of Malcolm Brogdon.

I was more worried about the team's offense before Brogdon and saw Durant as a big upgrade over Jaylen. I see Brogdon being able to fill that 3rd option role and the team consequently less desperate for more offense.

And while Durant is individually an upgrade - (1) the team currently fits so well together without Durant and will fit together worse with Durant (2) will hurt the team's collective defense (3) shorten the title window with Jaylen leaving.

Mmm ... I'd rather stand pat and stick with what we've got at this point. I love this squad with Brogdon joining. The double big of Horford & Rob. Keep together the Jays. Smart and D White as glue guy guards.