Author Topic: Danny's biggest regret, not drafting Brogdon  (Read 8594 times)

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Re: Danny's biggest regret, not drafting Brogdon
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2022, 10:45:18 AM »

Online slamtheking

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Siakam and Murray were last 1st round picks that draft.  They'd seemingly be a bigger miss. 

But imagine basically a perfect draft

Brown at 3
LeVert at 16 (he was far more reasonable than Murray that high so I went with him even though Murray is better)
Siakam at 23
Zubac at 31
Brogdon at 35

Murray was a projected end of lottery pick, so 16 would have been reasonable.  We probably don’t double dip and draft two PGs, though.

Even if we’d still made the second rounders trade, Brown / Murray / Siakim would have been epic.
all the more reason to curse Danny for p--- poor asset managing going into that draft where he was basically forced to use 2 firsts on draft and stash players rather than on players that were BPA at those picks.
except he wasn't because we kept 2nd round Demetrius Jackson on the actual roster. 

extending it further, you know since Boston also had 3 later 2nd round picks

Boston could have also had

45 - Georges Niang
51 - Fred VanVleet
58 - Dorian Finney-Smith

Also available as undrafted players - Alex Caruso, Damion Lee, Gary Payton, Yogi Ferrell

I don't really fault him for missing on the second rounders, since those are a dice roll. 

But, I do agree:  Danny was too hyper-focused on roster spots.  We overreached for "stashes" while keeping Jackson, Mickey and James Young on the roster.  I didn't like the Yabu pick at the time.  I was okay with Zizic, but obviously that was a miss too.
Oh that wasn't a shot at Danny on the late 2nd rounders, I had just played out the best draft for the first 5 picks, so figured I'd add the next 3 as well, but the knock on Danny for that draft was going into it with 8 picks.  That is where he mismanaged the draft and it created all these weird things.

I also don't see why he took 2 draft and stash players in the 1st round, the first of which was a huge reach, only to keep a mid-2nd round pick on the roster.  If it wasn't a roster issue, why the heck did he take both Yabu and Zizic. 

One of the greatest what if's from that draft, was could Danny have taken the Sixers trade offer for 3 that was rumored to be Noel, Covington, 24 and 26, and then packaged 16, 23, and 24 and moved up to 8 to potentially still land Brown (the Sixers wanted Dunn so there is a real chance Brown would have slipped to 8 ).
that would have been an utter disaster.  no way Brown slips to 8 and we'd have 2 mediocre players in Noel and Covington instead.  Of the players rumored to be in the 3-8 slots, were Brown, Dunn, Hield, Bender, Murray, Chriss.  would you honestly want to rely on the other teams not thinking Brown was the best of that bunch and hope all of them were taken before him?  I certainly wouldn't. 

as the saying goes, sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't make

Re: Danny's biggest regret, not drafting Brogdon
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2022, 11:06:55 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Siakam and Murray were last 1st round picks that draft.  They'd seemingly be a bigger miss. 

But imagine basically a perfect draft

Brown at 3
LeVert at 16 (he was far more reasonable than Murray that high so I went with him even though Murray is better)
Siakam at 23
Zubac at 31
Brogdon at 35

Murray was a projected end of lottery pick, so 16 would have been reasonable.  We probably don’t double dip and draft two PGs, though.

Even if we’d still made the second rounders trade, Brown / Murray / Siakim would have been epic.
all the more reason to curse Danny for p--- poor asset managing going into that draft where he was basically forced to use 2 firsts on draft and stash players rather than on players that were BPA at those picks.
except he wasn't because we kept 2nd round Demetrius Jackson on the actual roster. 

extending it further, you know since Boston also had 3 later 2nd round picks

Boston could have also had

45 - Georges Niang
51 - Fred VanVleet
58 - Dorian Finney-Smith

Also available as undrafted players - Alex Caruso, Damion Lee, Gary Payton, Yogi Ferrell

I don't really fault him for missing on the second rounders, since those are a dice roll. 

But, I do agree:  Danny was too hyper-focused on roster spots.  We overreached for "stashes" while keeping Jackson, Mickey and James Young on the roster.  I didn't like the Yabu pick at the time.  I was okay with Zizic, but obviously that was a miss too.
Oh that wasn't a shot at Danny on the late 2nd rounders, I had just played out the best draft for the first 5 picks, so figured I'd add the next 3 as well, but the knock on Danny for that draft was going into it with 8 picks.  That is where he mismanaged the draft and it created all these weird things.

I also don't see why he took 2 draft and stash players in the 1st round, the first of which was a huge reach, only to keep a mid-2nd round pick on the roster.  If it wasn't a roster issue, why the heck did he take both Yabu and Zizic. 

One of the greatest what if's from that draft, was could Danny have taken the Sixers trade offer for 3 that was rumored to be Noel, Covington, 24 and 26, and then packaged 16, 23, and 24 and moved up to 8 to potentially still land Brown (the Sixers wanted Dunn so there is a real chance Brown would have slipped to 8 ).
that would have been an utter disaster.  no way Brown slips to 8 and we'd have 2 mediocre players in Noel and Covington instead.  Of the players rumored to be in the 3-8 slots, were Brown, Dunn, Hield, Bender, Murray, Chriss.  would you honestly want to rely on the other teams not thinking Brown was the best of that bunch and hope all of them were taken before him?  I certainly wouldn't. 

as the saying goes, sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't make
There was a pretty long debate on where Brown would have gone had Boston not taken him at 3, the general consensus was either 7 to Denver or 8 where Chriss went.  I think that seems right just given the needs of the teams drafting at the time. 
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Re: Danny's biggest regret, not drafting Brogdon
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2022, 11:58:49 AM »

Online slamtheking

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Siakam and Murray were last 1st round picks that draft.  They'd seemingly be a bigger miss. 

But imagine basically a perfect draft

Brown at 3
LeVert at 16 (he was far more reasonable than Murray that high so I went with him even though Murray is better)
Siakam at 23
Zubac at 31
Brogdon at 35

Murray was a projected end of lottery pick, so 16 would have been reasonable.  We probably don’t double dip and draft two PGs, though.

Even if we’d still made the second rounders trade, Brown / Murray / Siakim would have been epic.
all the more reason to curse Danny for p--- poor asset managing going into that draft where he was basically forced to use 2 firsts on draft and stash players rather than on players that were BPA at those picks.
except he wasn't because we kept 2nd round Demetrius Jackson on the actual roster. 

extending it further, you know since Boston also had 3 later 2nd round picks

Boston could have also had

45 - Georges Niang
51 - Fred VanVleet
58 - Dorian Finney-Smith

Also available as undrafted players - Alex Caruso, Damion Lee, Gary Payton, Yogi Ferrell

I don't really fault him for missing on the second rounders, since those are a dice roll. 

But, I do agree:  Danny was too hyper-focused on roster spots.  We overreached for "stashes" while keeping Jackson, Mickey and James Young on the roster.  I didn't like the Yabu pick at the time.  I was okay with Zizic, but obviously that was a miss too.
Oh that wasn't a shot at Danny on the late 2nd rounders, I had just played out the best draft for the first 5 picks, so figured I'd add the next 3 as well, but the knock on Danny for that draft was going into it with 8 picks.  That is where he mismanaged the draft and it created all these weird things.

I also don't see why he took 2 draft and stash players in the 1st round, the first of which was a huge reach, only to keep a mid-2nd round pick on the roster.  If it wasn't a roster issue, why the heck did he take both Yabu and Zizic. 

One of the greatest what if's from that draft, was could Danny have taken the Sixers trade offer for 3 that was rumored to be Noel, Covington, 24 and 26, and then packaged 16, 23, and 24 and moved up to 8 to potentially still land Brown (the Sixers wanted Dunn so there is a real chance Brown would have slipped to 8 ).
that would have been an utter disaster.  no way Brown slips to 8 and we'd have 2 mediocre players in Noel and Covington instead.  Of the players rumored to be in the 3-8 slots, were Brown, Dunn, Hield, Bender, Murray, Chriss.  would you honestly want to rely on the other teams not thinking Brown was the best of that bunch and hope all of them were taken before him?  I certainly wouldn't. 

as the saying goes, sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't make
There was a pretty long debate on where Brown would have gone had Boston not taken him at 3, the general consensus was either 7 to Denver or 8 where Chriss went.  I think that seems right just given the needs of the teams drafting at the time.
and drafting consensus didn't have us taking Brown at 3 but that's what happened.  I don't put a lot of stock in those forecasts -- especially when predicting how a draft would progress had a good player fallen past where they were selected.

Re: Danny's biggest regret, not drafting Brogdon
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2022, 12:18:45 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Siakam and Murray were last 1st round picks that draft.  They'd seemingly be a bigger miss. 

But imagine basically a perfect draft

Brown at 3
LeVert at 16 (he was far more reasonable than Murray that high so I went with him even though Murray is better)
Siakam at 23
Zubac at 31
Brogdon at 35

Murray was a projected end of lottery pick, so 16 would have been reasonable.  We probably don’t double dip and draft two PGs, though.

Even if we’d still made the second rounders trade, Brown / Murray / Siakim would have been epic.
all the more reason to curse Danny for p--- poor asset managing going into that draft where he was basically forced to use 2 firsts on draft and stash players rather than on players that were BPA at those picks.
except he wasn't because we kept 2nd round Demetrius Jackson on the actual roster. 

extending it further, you know since Boston also had 3 later 2nd round picks

Boston could have also had

45 - Georges Niang
51 - Fred VanVleet
58 - Dorian Finney-Smith

Also available as undrafted players - Alex Caruso, Damion Lee, Gary Payton, Yogi Ferrell

I don't really fault him for missing on the second rounders, since those are a dice roll. 

But, I do agree:  Danny was too hyper-focused on roster spots.  We overreached for "stashes" while keeping Jackson, Mickey and James Young on the roster.  I didn't like the Yabu pick at the time.  I was okay with Zizic, but obviously that was a miss too.
Oh that wasn't a shot at Danny on the late 2nd rounders, I had just played out the best draft for the first 5 picks, so figured I'd add the next 3 as well, but the knock on Danny for that draft was going into it with 8 picks.  That is where he mismanaged the draft and it created all these weird things.

I also don't see why he took 2 draft and stash players in the 1st round, the first of which was a huge reach, only to keep a mid-2nd round pick on the roster.  If it wasn't a roster issue, why the heck did he take both Yabu and Zizic. 

One of the greatest what if's from that draft, was could Danny have taken the Sixers trade offer for 3 that was rumored to be Noel, Covington, 24 and 26, and then packaged 16, 23, and 24 and moved up to 8 to potentially still land Brown (the Sixers wanted Dunn so there is a real chance Brown would have slipped to 8 ).
that would have been an utter disaster.  no way Brown slips to 8 and we'd have 2 mediocre players in Noel and Covington instead.  Of the players rumored to be in the 3-8 slots, were Brown, Dunn, Hield, Bender, Murray, Chriss.  would you honestly want to rely on the other teams not thinking Brown was the best of that bunch and hope all of them were taken before him?  I certainly wouldn't. 

as the saying goes, sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't make
There was a pretty long debate on where Brown would have gone had Boston not taken him at 3, the general consensus was either 7 to Denver or 8 where Chriss went.  I think that seems right just given the needs of the teams drafting at the time.
and drafting consensus didn't have us taking Brown at 3 but that's what happened.  I don't put a lot of stock in those forecasts -- especially when predicting how a draft would progress had a good player fallen past where they were selected.
I meant consensus on this board and frankly I do think it is certainly possible (and maybe even likely) that Brown would have still been there at 8

3 - Dunn to Philly (which is the starting point)
4 - Bender still to Phoenix
5 - Murray to Minnesota (they took Dunn, Murray makes most sense)
6 - Hield to New Orleans (his shooting still made most sense in a team building around AD)
7 - Chriss or Brown to Denver - this is the interesting thing.  They took Murray, who is now off the board.  I can see arguments either way for Brown or Chriss in that spot, but I think they go with Chriss given their roster at the time.
8 - Brown still on board if Denver takes Chriss.  And I can also see something strange like Sabonis or Poeltl or even Sacto keeping the pick and taking the guy they wanted i.e. Papagiannis.  This pick was clearly available though as Sacramento traded it to Phoenix for 13, 28, rights to Bogdan Bogdanovic, and a 2020 2nd (ended up 35 - Xavier Tillman).

So the question is would 16, 23, 24, and one of the 2nd's trumped the Phoenix offer.  I think Sacramento still could have landed Papagiannis at 16, so they probably still get their main draft target.  Does it require 27 also.  Maybe, but I think Ainge still might have done that given the roster crunch issues.  It was definitely an interesting hypothetical at the time.  Obviously in hind sight having the surety of drafting Brown was clearly the best move, but still ending up with Brown but also having Covington and Noel, would have been interesting.
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Re: Danny's biggest regret, not drafting Brogdon
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2022, 12:55:05 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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If that is his biggest regret, it wouldn't have been if Charlotte had accepted his trade offer to Winslow.  Charlotte must certainly regret not taking this trade:

Quote
Chris Forsberg of ESPN.com reports the Celtics offered six selections, including four first-round picks, to the Charlotte Hornets in a deal for the No. 9 pick. The Hornets refused and selected Wisconsin Badgers star Frank Kaminsky, and then the Miami Heat took Winslow.

Re: Danny's biggest regret, not drafting Brogdon
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2022, 12:58:28 PM »

Online Roy H.

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If that is his biggest regret, it wouldn't have been if Charlotte had accepted his trade offer to Winslow.  Charlotte must certainly regret not taking this trade:

Quote
Chris Forsberg of ESPN.com reports the Celtics offered six selections, including four first-round picks, to the Charlotte Hornets in a deal for the No. 9 pick. The Hornets refused and selected Wisconsin Badgers star Frank Kaminsky, and then the Miami Heat took Winslow.

Yeah, and one of those picks was reportedly a Brooklyn pick.


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Re: Danny's biggest regret, not drafting Brogdon
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2022, 02:17:42 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Bender still to Phoenix

I recall the Bender hype here it was crazy and many were completely wrong on him.   What a dud.

Re: Danny's biggest regret, not drafting Brogdon
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2022, 06:29:58 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Bender still to Phoenix

I recall the Bender hype here it was crazy and many were completely wrong on him.   What a dud.
Yep. Bender hype was real. A lot of folks wanted Dunn, too.

It's crazy now to think Brown might've gone 8th but at the time it wouldn't have been crazy at all.

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Re: Danny's biggest regret, not drafting Brogdon
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2022, 06:34:46 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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He passed over one of the greatest players of all time, and instead drafted a dirty hippie with midget arms and not a single thing resembling an elite skill.

If that isn't his greatest regret, he's not being honest.

Re: Danny's biggest regret, not drafting Brogdon
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2022, 04:01:19 PM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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If that is his biggest regret, it wouldn't have been if Charlotte had accepted his trade offer to Winslow.  Charlotte must certainly regret not taking this trade:

Quote
Chris Forsberg of ESPN.com reports the Celtics offered six selections, including four first-round picks, to the Charlotte Hornets in a deal for the No. 9 pick. The Hornets refused and selected Wisconsin Badgers star Frank Kaminsky, and then the Miami Heat took Winslow.

I still don’t understand why he was willing to throw so much to get Winslow, yet wasn’t willing to bring in Kawhi as a capstone to get us the title in 2018-2019.

Re: Danny's biggest regret, not drafting Brogdon
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2022, 04:02:25 PM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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He passed over one of the greatest players of all time, and instead drafted a dirty hippie with midget arms and not a single thing resembling an elite skill.

If that isn't his greatest regret, he's not being honest.

🤣

The worst part is Giannis went almost right after our pick, so people will forever look up Kelly Olynyk wondering what the great Boston Celtics saw in passing over Giannis.

Re: Danny's biggest regret, not drafting Brogdon
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2022, 04:06:19 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If that is his biggest regret, it wouldn't have been if Charlotte had accepted his trade offer to Winslow.  Charlotte must certainly regret not taking this trade:

Quote
Chris Forsberg of ESPN.com reports the Celtics offered six selections, including four first-round picks, to the Charlotte Hornets in a deal for the No. 9 pick. The Hornets refused and selected Wisconsin Badgers star Frank Kaminsky, and then the Miami Heat took Winslow.

I still don’t understand why he was willing to throw so much to get Winslow, yet wasn’t willing to bring in Kawhi as a capstone to get us the title in 2018-2019.
Kawhi was recovering from injury and not really being forthcoming on his injury status and was saying long term, he would be playing in LA, so he would be a one year rental.

Winslow was a highly regarded prospect that fell in the draft that Ainge loved. GMs love their 19 year old prospects that they feel they can turn into stars and control for up to 8 or 9 years and will overpay for those guys.

Those are the reasons for that.

Re: Danny's biggest regret, not drafting Brogdon
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2022, 04:14:39 PM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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If that is his biggest regret, it wouldn't have been if Charlotte had accepted his trade offer to Winslow.  Charlotte must certainly regret not taking this trade:

Quote
Chris Forsberg of ESPN.com reports the Celtics offered six selections, including four first-round picks, to the Charlotte Hornets in a deal for the No. 9 pick. The Hornets refused and selected Wisconsin Badgers star Frank Kaminsky, and then the Miami Heat took Winslow.

I still don’t understand why he was willing to throw so much to get Winslow, yet wasn’t willing to bring in Kawhi as a capstone to get us the title in 2018-2019.
Kawhi was recovering from injury and not really being forthcoming on his injury status and was saying long term, he would be playing in LA, so he would be a one year rental.

Winslow was a highly regarded prospect that fell in the draft that Ainge loved. GMs love their 19 year old prospects that they feel they can turn into stars and control for up to 8 or 9 years and will overpay for those guys.

Those are the reasons for that.

And it’s also why Toronto has as many titles as Boston in the last 35 years. Ujiri out-played Danny.

I bet Danny only wanted Winslow so bad because he knew he’s the guy Riley wanted at 10.

Re: Danny's biggest regret, not drafting Brogdon
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2022, 04:22:33 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Funny thing about the Bucks. the same draft they nabbed Brogdon in the 2d round, they also had the 10th pick. They might have grabbed any of a few really nice players to put next to Giannis. Sabonas was taken at 11. Also on the board: LaVert, Siakam, Beasley. Who did they take? Thon Maker. they saw another raw, athletic talent from abroad with a too-thin frame. Thought he had the drive and physique to become another huge steal - but this time they guessed wrong.

Re: Danny's biggest regret, not drafting Brogdon
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2022, 04:23:41 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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If that is his biggest regret, it wouldn't have been if Charlotte had accepted his trade offer to Winslow.  Charlotte must certainly regret not taking this trade:

Quote
Chris Forsberg of ESPN.com reports the Celtics offered six selections, including four first-round picks, to the Charlotte Hornets in a deal for the No. 9 pick. The Hornets refused and selected Wisconsin Badgers star Frank Kaminsky, and then the Miami Heat took Winslow.

I still don’t understand why he was willing to throw so much to get Winslow, yet wasn’t willing to bring in Kawhi as a capstone to get us the title in 2018-2019.
Kawhi was recovering from injury and not really being forthcoming on his injury status and was saying long term, he would be playing in LA, so he would be a one year rental.

Winslow was a highly regarded prospect that fell in the draft that Ainge loved. GMs love their 19 year old prospects that they feel they can turn into stars and control for up to 8 or 9 years and will overpay for those guys.

Those are the reasons for that.

And it’s also why Toronto has as many titles as Boston in the last 35 years. Ujiri out-played Danny.

I bet Danny only wanted Winslow so bad because he knew he’s the guy Riley wanted at 10.
And who is more likely to win titles over the next decade because Danny didn't make that trade?