Is Grant a goner? (Yes: Traded to DAL for second rounders)

[cman88]

Grant will start in Dallas, he never would had in Boston so smart on his part to sign with Dallas

Start where though? At the 4 or 5? He's undersized as a 5 and Luka is a 4

[Big333223]

Last Friday night, two days after Grant Williams learned he was headed to the Mavericks in a sign-and-trade, the forward went to dinner at a posh Las Vegas restaurant with his close friend and former Celtics teammate, Jayson Tatum. Over the last four seasons the two developed a brotherly relationship built on sarcasm and playful ribbing, and they saw no reason to stop on this night, even though they were now rivals. “I’m gonna bust your [butt] when we play Dallas,” Tatum told Williams. “You think?” Williams said. “You can’t go left. And I’m gonna be physical with you, and you’ll go cry to the referees.” – via Boston Globe

Williams said his uneven role last year had already made him a bit leery of a Boston return. “I kind of had perspective,” he said. “Even after the season and before the Kristaps trade, I had some understanding of what I was trying to accomplish in free agency, and where I saw myself moving forward.” – via Boston Globe

If this is correct (the second report), Grant wanted out.  The Celtics help work it out with a sign and trade.

Oh, he definitely wanted to go. I don't think anybody disputes that, they just wanted the Celtics to keep the asset and maintain the depth for at least this season.

I never heard a whisper of reporting that Grant was anything other than well liked in the locker room but I always wondered whether that was true, given his personality. Hearing him admit, himself, that he had been "unprofessional" makes me think even more that he was a problem in the locker room.

[Moranis]

Last Friday night, two days after Grant Williams learned he was headed to the Mavericks in a sign-and-trade, the forward went to dinner at a posh Las Vegas restaurant with his close friend and former Celtics teammate, Jayson Tatum. Over the last four seasons the two developed a brotherly relationship built on sarcasm and playful ribbing, and they saw no reason to stop on this night, even though they were now rivals. “I’m gonna bust your [butt] when we play Dallas,” Tatum told Williams. “You think?” Williams said. “You can’t go left. And I’m gonna be physical with you, and you’ll go cry to the referees.” – via Boston Globe

Williams said his uneven role last year had already made him a bit leery of a Boston return. “I kind of had perspective,” he said. “Even after the season and before the Kristaps trade, I had some understanding of what I was trying to accomplish in free agency, and where I saw myself moving forward.” – via Boston Globe

If this is correct (the second report), Grant wanted out.  The Celtics help work it out with a sign and trade.

maybe he didn't want to return because the team wasn't playing him and was looking to move on, is not the same thing as him wanting out.  It sounds like he wanted to be in Boston with a known consistent role, but the team wasn't going to give it to him.  And frankly I don't blame him.  He played 79 games, started 23, averaged nearly 36 mpg and then he is a DNP coaches decision in 5 playoff games, including the first 2.  In another he played less than a minute and had and in 3 others played less than 9.  Very strange usage from a guy who was pretty clearly a top 8 player in the rotation all season long (he only had 3 games less than 12 minutes all season). 

Grant saw the writing on the wall, the team was done with him, so he prepared himself to move on because why be with a team that doesn't appreciate or even want you.

[BitterJim]

Last Friday night, two days after Grant Williams learned he was headed to the Mavericks in a sign-and-trade, the forward went to dinner at a posh Las Vegas restaurant with his close friend and former Celtics teammate, Jayson Tatum. Over the last four seasons the two developed a brotherly relationship built on sarcasm and playful ribbing, and they saw no reason to stop on this night, even though they were now rivals. “I’m gonna bust your [butt] when we play Dallas,” Tatum told Williams. “You think?” Williams said. “You can’t go left. And I’m gonna be physical with you, and you’ll go cry to the referees.” – via Boston Globe

Williams said his uneven role last year had already made him a bit leery of a Boston return. “I kind of had perspective,” he said. “Even after the season and before the Kristaps trade, I had some understanding of what I was trying to accomplish in free agency, and where I saw myself moving forward.” – via Boston Globe

If this is correct (the second report), Grant wanted out.  The Celtics help work it out with a sign and trade.

Oh, he definitely wanted to go. I don't think anybody disputes that, they just wanted the Celtics to keep the asset and maintain the depth for at least this season.

I never heard a whisper of reporting that Grant was anything other than well liked in the locker room but I always wondered whether that was true, given his personality. Hearing him admit, himself, that he had been "unprofessional" makes me think even more that he was a problem in the locker room.

Grant (or, frankly, anyone else on the team) could say literally anything and you'd twist that into supporting your idea that Grant wasn't well liked in the locker room

[gouki88]

Grant will start in Dallas, he never would had in Boston so smart on his part to sign with Dallas

Start where though? At the 4 or 5? He's undersized as a 5 and Luka is a 4

Since when has Luka been a 4? Last season from memory they were playing Luka at the 1, Kyrie at the 2, two wings at the 3-4 (Hardaway Jr. & Bullock), and Powell at 5.

I think their depth chart will look like the below:
Luka / ? (Exum?)
Kyrie / Hardy
Hardaway Jr. / Green
G Williams / Kleber
Powell / Holmes / McGee

[Roy H.]

Grant will start in Dallas, he never would had in Boston so smart on his part to sign with Dallas

Start where though? At the 4 or 5? He's undersized as a 5 and Luka is a 4

Since when has Luka been a 4? Last season from memory they were playing Luka at the 1, Kyrie at the 2, two wings at the 3-4 (Hardaway Jr. & Bullock), and Powell at 5.

I think their depth chart will look like the below:
Luka / ? (Exum?)
Kyrie / Hardy
Hardaway Jr. / Green
G Williams / Kleber
Powell / Holmes / McGee

What an odd roster.  They'll be able to win some games just due to the pure talent of their back court, but I don't like how that team is constructed at all.

[green_bballers13]

Grant will start in Dallas, he never would had in Boston so smart on his part to sign with Dallas

Start where though? At the 4 or 5? He's undersized as a 5 and Luka is a 4

What type of player can Luka guard? Not a 1, not a 2, prob not a 3, prob not a 4, and definitely not a 5.

On offense, he's a point forward/point guard/whatever you want to call Lebron's offensive position.

[gouki88]

Grant will start in Dallas, he never would had in Boston so smart on his part to sign with Dallas

Start where though? At the 4 or 5? He's undersized as a 5 and Luka is a 4

Since when has Luka been a 4? Last season from memory they were playing Luka at the 1, Kyrie at the 2, two wings at the 3-4 (Hardaway Jr. & Bullock), and Powell at 5.

I think their depth chart will look like the below:
Luka / ? (Exum?)
Kyrie / Hardy
Hardaway Jr. / Green
G Williams / Kleber
Powell / Holmes / McGee

What an odd roster.  They'll be able to win some games just due to the pure talent of their back court, but I don't like how that team is constructed at all.

It is a very weird roster. I like Hardy and Green. I had forgotten about their rookie big man, but he might be one they bring along slowly. I don't like the construction at all

[gouki88]

Grant will start in Dallas, he never would had in Boston so smart on his part to sign with Dallas

Start where though? At the 4 or 5? He's undersized as a 5 and Luka is a 4

What type of player can Luka guard? Not a 1, not a 2, prob not a 3, prob not a 4, and definitely not a 5.

On offense, he's a point forward/point guard/whatever you want to call Lebron's offensive position.

He's going to get assigned whoever is least threatening of the 2-4 guys. Let Williams, Green & Hardaway Jr. do the work on the perimeter

[obnoxiousmime]

Last Friday night, two days after Grant Williams learned he was headed to the Mavericks in a sign-and-trade, the forward went to dinner at a posh Las Vegas restaurant with his close friend and former Celtics teammate, Jayson Tatum. Over the last four seasons the two developed a brotherly relationship built on sarcasm and playful ribbing, and they saw no reason to stop on this night, even though they were now rivals. “I’m gonna bust your [butt] when we play Dallas,” Tatum told Williams. “You think?” Williams said. “You can’t go left. And I’m gonna be physical with you, and you’ll go cry to the referees.” – via Boston Globe

Williams said his uneven role last year had already made him a bit leery of a Boston return. “I kind of had perspective,” he said. “Even after the season and before the Kristaps trade, I had some understanding of what I was trying to accomplish in free agency, and where I saw myself moving forward.” – via Boston Globe

If this is correct (the second report), Grant wanted out.  The Celtics help work it out with a sign and trade.

Oh, he definitely wanted to go. I don't think anybody disputes that, they just wanted the Celtics to keep the asset and maintain the depth for at least this season.

I never heard a whisper of reporting that Grant was anything other than well liked in the locker room but I always wondered whether that was true, given his personality. Hearing him admit, himself, that he had been "unprofessional" makes me think even more that he was a problem in the locker room.

He's mostly a mature and intelligent guy, but he's also still quite young and strikes me as the pouty/emotional/stubborn type when things don't go his way. He just hasn't totally outgrown the upset kid part of his personality. He's like the kid at the dinner table who, when told to go to his room cannot help but argue about why that is unfair instead of just leaving immediately. Obviously that is something that will fade as he gets older, but you can tell the way he complains on the court and stubbornly punched the ball in frustration that one time or grabs it after an opposing free throw so he can touch it before giving it to the ref that he often just can't control his emotions and HAS to react in either passive-aggressive ways or engage in defiant verbal debates just so everybody has heard his point. That's the other slight negative, he's got an attention-seeking side of him which can get him in trouble or create a distraction for the team. I can totally see him getting pouty about being benched and mentally checking out for a couple weeks.

This isn't to say that he was a bad locker room guy. I actually think for the most part he was fine and players knew it was something he needed time to deal with and accept. It was probably just hard because, despite his sometimes goofy and self-deprecating nature I think he does have a lot of confidence in his game and was really frustrated with not being able to show it.

[Moranis]

Last Friday night, two days after Grant Williams learned he was headed to the Mavericks in a sign-and-trade, the forward went to dinner at a posh Las Vegas restaurant with his close friend and former Celtics teammate, Jayson Tatum. Over the last four seasons the two developed a brotherly relationship built on sarcasm and playful ribbing, and they saw no reason to stop on this night, even though they were now rivals. “I’m gonna bust your [butt] when we play Dallas,” Tatum told Williams. “You think?” Williams said. “You can’t go left. And I’m gonna be physical with you, and you’ll go cry to the referees.” – via Boston Globe

Williams said his uneven role last year had already made him a bit leery of a Boston return. “I kind of had perspective,” he said. “Even after the season and before the Kristaps trade, I had some understanding of what I was trying to accomplish in free agency, and where I saw myself moving forward.” – via Boston Globe

If this is correct (the second report), Grant wanted out.  The Celtics help work it out with a sign and trade.

Oh, he definitely wanted to go. I don't think anybody disputes that, they just wanted the Celtics to keep the asset and maintain the depth for at least this season.

I never heard a whisper of reporting that Grant was anything other than well liked in the locker room but I always wondered whether that was true, given his personality. Hearing him admit, himself, that he had been "unprofessional" makes me think even more that he was a problem in the locker room.

He's mostly a mature and intelligent guy, but he's also still quite young and strikes me as the pouty/emotional/stubborn type when things don't go his way. He just hasn't totally outgrown the upset kid part of his personality. He's like the kid at the dinner table who, when told to go to his room cannot help but argue about why that is unfair instead of just leaving immediately. Obviously that is something that will fade as he gets older, but you can tell the way he complains on the court and stubbornly punched the ball in frustration that one time or grabs it after an opposing free throw so he can touch it before giving it to the ref that he often just can't control his emotions and HAS to react in either passive-aggressive ways or engage in defiant verbal debates just so everybody has heard his point. That's the other slight negative, he's got an attention-seeking side of him which can get him in trouble or create a distraction for the team. I can totally see him getting pouty about being benched and mentally checking out for a couple weeks.

This isn't to say that he was a bad locker room guy. I actually think for the most part he was fine and players knew it was something he needed time to deal with and accept. It was probably just hard because, despite his sometimes goofy and self-deprecating nature I think he does have a lot of confidence in his game and was really frustrated with not being able to show it.

I thought we were talking about Grant, why are you describing Smart?

[cman88]

Grant will start in Dallas, he never would had in Boston so smart on his part to sign with Dallas

Start where though? At the 4 or 5? He's undersized as a 5 and Luka is a 4

Since when has Luka been a 4? Last season from memory they were playing Luka at the 1, Kyrie at the 2, two wings at the 3-4 (Hardaway Jr. & Bullock), and Powell at 5.

I think their depth chart will look like the below:
Luka / ? (Exum?)
Kyrie / Hardy
Hardaway Jr. / Green
G Williams / Kleber
Powell / Holmes / McGee

What an odd roster.  They'll be able to win some games just due to the pure talent of their back court, but I don't like how that team is constructed at all.

yeah, I honestly have no idea if Cuban knows how to build a team around Luka.

I mean at one point they had Brunson/Porzingis. around him. then traded zingis and refused to pay Brunson....only to pay Kyrie.

[obnoxiousmime]

“That’s a funny thing that happened. We were playing that game, I think we were up by eight. I’m playing well,” Williams said. “And Jimmy says like, ‘Hell nah, he ain’t here.’ So I made a three, I said, ‘Hell no, mother (expletive), I’m here.’ ... I never talk trash myself, I’m not a trash talker. I’m too nerdy.

“... The next thing you know that happens,” Williams said. “The next play, Jimmy (hesitation), boom boom, stop, pivot, and-one. And he said, ‘I’m here, too, mother (expletive),’” he added. “So, I’m like, ‘I don’t give a (expletive).’ We’re going back and forth. Me, I’m not backing down. We were missing that in that series. They were punking us the entire time.

“So we go back and forth, and it’s crazy, I always look back and I’m like, ‘Yo, I scored our last 10 points.’ Jimmy had eight. But the difference is, Max Strus made a three, Gabe Vincent made a three, so they end up winning that game,” Williams concluded. “If that doesn’t happen, we win the game and no one is bringing that up, the poking-the-bear stuff.”

Williams added that it’s “all love” between the two.

Did anybody actually go back and fact-check this? According to the play-by-play, Grant did score 7 points in a row for the Celtics, but not 10 (he only finished with 9 pts total). And Butler made the and-one on him right after that first three, then hit two humongous jumpers to tie it at 100 and then take the lead 102-100. Shortly after that, Grant was subbed for Brogdon with 2:19 to go. In total, Butler scored 9 points, not 7. So actually, Grant was outscored 9 to 7. I don't know where he got 8-10 from.

I know what he's trying to say, that scoring-wise he held up his side of the bargain and he was one of the only ones doing anything. However, the tone of the game definitely changed when Butler started abusing him. You can't just say because you scored 10 (actually 7) and Butler scored 7 (actually 9) so it didn't actually factor as much in the final outcome. That's totally discounting things like momentum and flow of the game though. It's ignoring the fact that Grant doesn't really score by creating his own shot the way Butler does, and also that he was the primary defender on a lot of those shots.

I know he has to put a good face on things, but he stretched the truth a little. They had chances to win (Brown and Tatum came up short) but to say his battle with Butler wasn't a huge swing factor is a stretch to me.

[Who]

“That’s a funny thing that happened. We were playing that game, I think we were up by eight. I’m playing well,” Williams said. “And Jimmy says like, ‘Hell nah, he ain’t here.’ So I made a three, I said, ‘Hell no, mother (expletive), I’m here.’ ... I never talk trash myself, I’m not a trash talker. I’m too nerdy.

“... The next thing you know that happens,” Williams said. “The next play, Jimmy (hesitation), boom boom, stop, pivot, and-one. And he said, ‘I’m here, too, mother (expletive),’” he added. “So, I’m like, ‘I don’t give a (expletive).’ We’re going back and forth. Me, I’m not backing down. We were missing that in that series. They were punking us the entire time.

“So we go back and forth, and it’s crazy, I always look back and I’m like, ‘Yo, I scored our last 10 points.’ Jimmy had eight. But the difference is, Max Strus made a three, Gabe Vincent made a three, so they end up winning that game,” Williams concluded. “If that doesn’t happen, we win the game and no one is bringing that up, the poking-the-bear stuff.”

Williams added that it’s “all love” between the two.

Agreed.

I loved G Will standing up to the challenge and not backing down. I wish the rest of the team showed as much backbone as he did.

[obnoxiousmime]

“That’s a funny thing that happened. We were playing that game, I think we were up by eight. I’m playing well,” Williams said. “And Jimmy says like, ‘Hell nah, he ain’t here.’ So I made a three, I said, ‘Hell no, mother (expletive), I’m here.’ ... I never talk trash myself, I’m not a trash talker. I’m too nerdy.

“... The next thing you know that happens,” Williams said. “The next play, Jimmy (hesitation), boom boom, stop, pivot, and-one. And he said, ‘I’m here, too, mother (expletive),’” he added. “So, I’m like, ‘I don’t give a (expletive).’ We’re going back and forth. Me, I’m not backing down. We were missing that in that series. They were punking us the entire time.

“So we go back and forth, and it’s crazy, I always look back and I’m like, ‘Yo, I scored our last 10 points.’ Jimmy had eight. But the difference is, Max Strus made a three, Gabe Vincent made a three, so they end up winning that game,” Williams concluded. “If that doesn’t happen, we win the game and no one is bringing that up, the poking-the-bear stuff.”

Williams added that it’s “all love” between the two.

Agreed.

I loved G Will standing up to the challenge and not backing down. I wish the rest of the team showed as much backbone as he did.

I would usually tend to like it too, but what does it say that his teammates didn't respond to it at all? Are they the soft ones, or were they tired of Grant's act? As Grant said, he's kind of a nerd, and if you trash talk you have to actually intimidate people and back it up. I don't think anybody on the Heat took his talking seriously at all, in fact they privately probably thought it was laughable.

Like, why does the "Imma make em both" thing happen to Grant but not anybody else? It just seems like there's a disconnect between how good he thinks he is and his actual talent level.