Is Grant a goner? (Yes: Traded to DAL for second rounders)

[jbpats]

Grant claims the difference in deals, and why he chose Dallas, was due to Massachusetts tax implications.

Rarely do players ever admit this, and I hate how teams have a competitive advantage over us simply because of our state tax structure. It is completely unfair. All sports teams should be taxed the same, i'd say the tax imposed should be based on the HQ of the league and not where the team resides.. and if a team has a higher tax penalty because of their state they should have a higher allowance to go over their respective league cap to neutralize it. There has to be some sort of way to even the playing field with this.

**I do realize the second scenario i proposed is impossible to manage, but still there should be a way to police this somehow.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/grant-williams-reacts-trade-explains-124956302.html

Taxachusetts.

Well in perspective - Mass income tax rate is 5%. With deductions (who knows in Grant’s case) probably talking about $500,000 a year.  Idk - doesn’t seem like that’s enough to sway unless everything else is equal. In the long run, he makes 52M instead of 54M.   Easy for me to say, but that 2M probably not going to make or break him.  And who knows ultimately if playing for the Cs ends up paying off better in endorsements….

His example within the article makes it seem like it's a 10 mil difference. 48 Boston vs 58 Dallas, but who knows if those are inflated numbers to prove a point. I'd say 20% is significant even when you are a multi-millionaire.

[Roy H.]

Grant claims the difference in deals, and why he chose Dallas, was due to Massachusetts tax implications.

Rarely do players ever admit this, and I hate how teams have a competitive advantage over us simply because of our state tax structure. It is completely unfair. All sports teams should be taxed the same, i'd say the tax imposed should be based on the HQ of the league and not where the team resides.. and if a team has a higher tax penalty because of their state they should have a higher allowance to go over their respective league cap to neutralize it. There has to be some sort of way to even the playing field with this.

**I do realize the second scenario i proposed is impossible to manage, but still there should be a way to police this somehow.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/grant-williams-reacts-trade-explains-124956302.html

Taxachusetts.

Well in perspective - Mass income tax rate is 5%. With deductions (who knows in Grant’s case) probably talking about $500,000 a year.  Idk - doesn’t seem like that’s enough to sway unless everything else is equal. In the long run, he makes 52M instead of 54M.   Easy for me to say, but that 2M probably not going to make or break him.  And who knows ultimately if playing for the Cs ends up paying off better in endorsements….

His example within the article makes it seem like it's a 10 mil difference. 48 Boston vs 58 Dallas, but who knows if those are inflated numbers to prove a point. I'd say 20% is significant even when you are a multi-millionaire.

Also, I'm pretty sure that the entire salary doesn't get taxed at Texas' rate.  When he plays games in California, I think California gets to recoup some tax on his salary, etc. 

Reading the Athletic article, I thought Grant made it pretty clear that the team didn't want him back at the MLE, so the tax situation is a little moot. 

Williams had a more competitive market earlier in free agency, but Brad Stevens holding out for a first-round pick forced several suitors to move on to other deals. Even as Williams’ market shrunk, he knew the likelihood of staying in Boston was dwindling.

“I had an understanding of that most of the way. I know how the numbers work out and yeah, they could have afforded to keep me,” said Williams. “But it’s one of those things where you’re really committing and after the prior year, I didn’t think it was realistic. Hey, Boston was trying to maintain their leverage. It’s one of those where you can’t be mad at them for it because it just shows they want you to be there in a way.” ...

But Williams’ return never made sense once Porziņģis came to town. No team pays four bigs double-digit salaries, especially in the supertax era and particularly when the Celtics are about to commit a Powerball jackpot to its three stars over the next calendar year. Boston could have matched an offer sheet and waited until the deadline to shed salary, but elected to avoid that headache now.

I think the tax part was more about justification why he turned down the offer last year?

Williams ended up with $54 million over four years, fully guaranteed per league sources. It’s the contract he wanted last year during preseason extension talks, but the Celtics only offered $48 million guaranteed with some incentives. He could have taken that deal, avoided the risk and felt secure knowing he was making millions. But he thought there was more out there and bet on himself.

“I was thankful just because I feel like the way my agent and everybody talked about it was that this was our floor,” Williams said. “In Boston, it’s really like $48 million with the millionaire’s tax, so $54 million in Dallas is really like $58 million in Boston and $63 million in L.A.

[Goldstar88]

Why are we discounting Pritchard and Hauser?

Both have proven to be NBA caliber players and should receive playing time.

Why did *Joe* discount Pritchard and Hauser (and Grant, as well).

Yeah but thats a coaching problem. if thats the case whomever brad brings in wont play either so it doesnt matter if we sign NBA quality vets.

Both SHOULD see playing time next year. they have proven they are NBA quality reserves.

Well this is some revisionist history. Hauser played 16mpg last year under Joe. The year before with Ime, he averaged 6mpg.

[Roy H.]

Why are we discounting Pritchard and Hauser?

Both have proven to be NBA caliber players and should receive playing time.

Why did *Joe* discount Pritchard and Hauser (and Grant, as well).

Yeah but thats a coaching problem. if thats the case whomever brad brings in wont play either so it doesnt matter if we sign NBA quality vets.

Both SHOULD see playing time next year. they have proven they are NBA quality reserves.

Well this is some revisionist history. Hauser played 16mpg last year under Joe. The year before with Ime, he averaged 6mpg.

He got 6.9 minutes in the playoffs, and didn't get off the bench in five games.

Pritchard averaged 5.7 minutes in the playoffs, and didn't get off the bench in 10 games.

Grant sat out five games, and averaged 17.7 minutes in the others.

[keevsnick]

Grant claims the difference in deals, and why he chose Dallas, was due to Massachusetts tax implications.

Rarely do players ever admit this, and I hate how teams have a competitive advantage over us simply because of our state tax structure. It is completely unfair. All sports teams should be taxed the same, i'd say the tax imposed should be based on the HQ of the league and not where the team resides.. and if a team has a higher tax penalty because of their state they should have a higher allowance to go over their respective league cap to neutralize it. There has to be some sort of way to even the playing field with this.

**I do realize the second scenario i proposed is impossible to manage, but still there should be a way to police this somehow.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/grant-williams-reacts-trade-explains-124956302.html

Taxachusetts.

Well in perspective - Mass income tax rate is 5%. With deductions (who knows in Grant’s case) probably talking about $500,000 a year.  Idk - doesn’t seem like that’s enough to sway unless everything else is equal. In the long run, he makes 52M instead of 54M.   Easy for me to say, but that 2M probably not going to make or break him.  And who knows ultimately if playing for the Cs ends up paying off better in endorsements….

I believe Mass recently passed a new "millionaires tax" as well that puts an extra 4% income tax on top of the 5% normal income tax for the portion of earnings over 1 million dollars. So in effect mass has something close to a 9% income tax for someone like grant. Now half his income in earned outside Mass, so that mitigates it a bit.

This read more like an after the fact justification. "Sure, I didn't make a lot more even after waiting a whole year but you have to remember Mass has high taxes so...." It sounds more like his agent trying to sell grant that he did a good job.

[Goldstar88]

Why are we discounting Pritchard and Hauser?

Both have proven to be NBA caliber players and should receive playing time.

Why did *Joe* discount Pritchard and Hauser (and Grant, as well).

Yeah but thats a coaching problem. if thats the case whomever brad brings in wont play either so it doesnt matter if we sign NBA quality vets.

Both SHOULD see playing time next year. they have proven they are NBA quality reserves.

Well this is some revisionist history. Hauser played 16mpg last year under Joe. The year before with Ime, he averaged 6mpg.

He got 6.9 minutes in the playoffs, and didn't get off the bench in five games.

Pritchard averaged 5.7 minutes in the playoffs, and didn't get off the bench in 10 games.

Grant sat out five games, and averaged 17.7 minutes in the others.

Right, the rotation gets shortened in the playoffs. Those guys will see less minutes. That is normal.

[Roy H.]

Why are we discounting Pritchard and Hauser?

Both have proven to be NBA caliber players and should receive playing time.

Why did *Joe* discount Pritchard and Hauser (and Grant, as well).

Yeah but thats a coaching problem. if thats the case whomever brad brings in wont play either so it doesnt matter if we sign NBA quality vets.

Both SHOULD see playing time next year. they have proven they are NBA quality reserves.

Well this is some revisionist history. Hauser played 16mpg last year under Joe. The year before with Ime, he averaged 6mpg.

He got 6.9 minutes in the playoffs, and didn't get off the bench in five games.

Pritchard averaged 5.7 minutes in the playoffs, and didn't get off the bench in 10 games.

Grant sat out five games, and averaged 17.7 minutes in the others.

Right, the rotation gets shortened in the playoffs. Those guys will see less minutes. That is normal.

Right:  Joe didn't think Hauser and Pritchard (and Grant) were reliable options in high-leverage situations last year.

Until proven otherwise, it's fair to assume that he's going to have some question marks about playing Hauser and Pritchard in high-leverage minutes, either.

And since those are currently our eighth and ninth men, that's a potential problem.  Either Joe needs to change, or the roster does.

[Celtics2021]

Why are we discounting Pritchard and Hauser?

Both have proven to be NBA caliber players and should receive playing time.

Why did *Joe* discount Pritchard and Hauser (and Grant, as well).

Yeah but thats a coaching problem. if thats the case whomever brad brings in wont play either so it doesnt matter if we sign NBA quality vets.

Both SHOULD see playing time next year. they have proven they are NBA quality reserves.

Well this is some revisionist history. Hauser played 16mpg last year under Joe. The year before with Ime, he averaged 6mpg.

He got 6.9 minutes in the playoffs, and didn't get off the bench in five games.

Pritchard averaged 5.7 minutes in the playoffs, and didn't get off the bench in 10 games.

Grant sat out five games, and averaged 17.7 minutes in the others.

Right, the rotation gets shortened in the playoffs. Those guys will see less minutes. That is normal.

Right:  Joe didn't think Hauser and Pritchard (and Grant) were reliable options in high-leverage situations last year.

Until proven otherwise, it's fair to assume that he's going to have some question marks about playing Hauser and Pritchard in high-leverage minutes, either.

And since those are currently our eighth and ninth men, that's a potential problem.  Either Joe needs to change, or the roster does.

It’s not at all uncommon for younger players to get DNPs in the playoffs one year having been in the rotation for the regular season, and then move into the rotation the next playoffs.  Heck, Jaylen Brown got DNPs and garbage time minutes several games in his first postseason and started on opening night the following October.  You’re making more out of this than is there.

[Roy H.]

Why are we discounting Pritchard and Hauser?

Both have proven to be NBA caliber players and should receive playing time.

Why did *Joe* discount Pritchard and Hauser (and Grant, as well).

Yeah but thats a coaching problem. if thats the case whomever brad brings in wont play either so it doesnt matter if we sign NBA quality vets.

Both SHOULD see playing time next year. they have proven they are NBA quality reserves.

Well this is some revisionist history. Hauser played 16mpg last year under Joe. The year before with Ime, he averaged 6mpg.

He got 6.9 minutes in the playoffs, and didn't get off the bench in five games.

Pritchard averaged 5.7 minutes in the playoffs, and didn't get off the bench in 10 games.

Grant sat out five games, and averaged 17.7 minutes in the others.

Right, the rotation gets shortened in the playoffs. Those guys will see less minutes. That is normal.

Right:  Joe didn't think Hauser and Pritchard (and Grant) were reliable options in high-leverage situations last year.

Until proven otherwise, it's fair to assume that he's going to have some question marks about playing Hauser and Pritchard in high-leverage minutes, either.

And since those are currently our eighth and ninth men, that's a potential problem.  Either Joe needs to change, or the roster does.

It’s not at all uncommon for younger players to get DNPs in the playoffs one year having been in the rotation for the regular season, and then move into the rotation the next playoffs.  Heck, Jaylen Brown got DNPs and garbage time minutes several games in his first postseason and started on opening night the following October.  You’re making more out of this than is there.

It's also not uncommon for younger players to get DNPs in the playoffs and then remain DNPs in the playoffs the following year.  And, in the case of Joe, he took two guys who played in every game of the playoffs in 2022 and sat them out each at least 5 games.

[Who]

Williams had a more competitive market earlier in free agency, but Brad Stevens holding out for a first-round pick forced several suitors to move on to other deals. Even as Williams’ market shrunk, he knew the likelihood of staying in Boston was dwindling.

I really do not like how teams bully and hurt player's earning potential in restricted free agency. I can understand the point of it with star players who are earning max money (or maybe near max money) but it is brutally unfair to role players.

[Goldstar88]

Now on to some serious business…

Does Grant get a tribute video when he returns to Boston? Yay or nay.

I'm sure he will. Maybe a 30 second one 

A 30 second clip of Grant just splashing corner 3’s… 

[keevsnick]

Williams had a more competitive market earlier in free agency, but Brad Stevens holding out for a first-round pick forced several suitors to move on to other deals. Even as Williams’ market shrunk, he knew the likelihood of staying in Boston was dwindling.

I really do not like how teams bully and hurt player's earning potential in restricted free agency. I can understand the point of it with star players who are earning max money (or maybe near max money) but it is brutally unfair to role players.

Then the players can feel free to negotiate away restricted free agency in the next CBA. Grant got 54 million and is playing in a place he'll likely start. He did fine.

[Who]

G Will going to Dallas reminds me of BBD going to Orlando. Yeah, BBD was okay enough as a starter but he was never a good starter. He was always best suited to a bench role.

I believe Dallas will find out the same thing.

[Who]

Williams had a more competitive market earlier in free agency, but Brad Stevens holding out for a first-round pick forced several suitors to move on to other deals. Even as Williams’ market shrunk, he knew the likelihood of staying in Boston was dwindling.

I really do not like how teams bully and hurt player's earning potential in restricted free agency. I can understand the point of it with star players who are earning max money (or maybe near max money) but it is brutally unfair to role players.

Then the players can feel free to negotiate away restricted free agency in the next CBA. Grant got 54 million and is playing in a place he'll likely start. He did fine.

Yes. I want them to destroy restricted free agency.

And I want them to destroy the Draft and destroy the rookie scale contracts. Allow them to sign wherever they want for up to a max deal as they enter the league.

I am disappointed at the player's union and how they have allowed the teams and league office bully them.

[Who]

The bench is a huge reason the nuggets won the title. They have three or four legit players that had a massive impact.

I didn't think so. I thought DEN only had 6 guys. They had one of the worst benches in the league. Those guys C Braun, Jeff Green and DeAndre Jordan were all weak bench players.

Denver won despite their bad bench because their 6 main guys carried them.