Is Grant a goner? (Yes: Traded to DAL for second rounders)

[Roy H.]

Sean Deveney @SeanDeveney
about 24 minutes ago
The @celtics & Grant Williams are not ruling out a Boston return, according to sources, though $$ makes it tough. At least, the sides will work together to get something done -- this won't be an adverserial restricted free agency.

[Goldstar88]

Grant Williams expressed his desire to return to the Celtics when free agency begins on Friday, leaving it in the hands of Boston president Brad Stevens and Williams’ agent Erik Kabe. Williams attended a Fanatics fan event at Gillette Stadium alongside Jayson Tatum and members of the Patriots and Revolution on Tuesday afternoon.  – via Bobby Manning @ CLNSMedia.

“Brad and those guys, if they decide to keep me & bring me back, of course I’m gonna come back and be excited and happy and ready to play for the Celtics,” Williams said. “If something else happens, then I’ll have to transition, but for me, my outlook has always been that I want to make sure wherever I am, to impact success and winning and make sure I’m here for my players around me and focus on the team first.”  – via Bobby Manning @ CLNSMedia.com

Grant Williams. “(I would) absolutely (return), cap-wise, with the new CBA, I think all these teams as you see are trying to get the trades in and the contracts done prior to the CBA truly being enacted, so you’re gonna see a lot of all-in pushes. If the Celtics decide to do it, that’s how it’ll work out. If not, it helps financially a little bit, but it definitely changes the numbers.”  – via Bobby Manning @ CLNSMedia.com

Gary Washburn: Grant Williams on the Smart trade: “Something that definitely hurts a little bit. Just because you’ve been with someone so long and he’s a phenomenal person. He has as much heart and passion of anyone across this entire organization. We trust Brad and we have to not really hold too much against (the trade) because we know Marcus is going to be great wherever he goes. He’s in a great situation and a talented team and they need him. (Boston) is going to have to step up in his absence.”  – via Twitter GwashburnGlobe

Satch Sanders at 9000. Interesting. 

[cman88]

my only worry with letting Grant go is who will we throw at Giannis/Embiid in the playoffs.

everyone is looking at Miami while forgetting Milwaukee/sixers will still be right there as 2 of the top 3 teams in the east.

are we going to really rely on 37 yo al horford as our main line of defense? we need bodies to throw at them both and Grant has been really good at while he gives up size not giving up strength against them.

[Celtics4ever]

my only worry with letting Grant go is who will we throw at Giannis/Embiid in the playoffs.

Are you serious, they both still score 30 + points with Grant on them...

Grant may find out his market wasn't what he thought it was and end up back here on the qualifying other.

[cman88]

my only worry with letting Grant go is who will we throw at Giannis/Embiid in the playoffs.

Are you serious, they both still score 30 + points with Grant on them...

Grant may find out his market wasn't what he thought it was and end up back here on the qualifying other.

You might be right. I don't think Grant is going to get anything close to what he demanded last year..

I guess you have a point. Maybe we just need any big who wont back down against Giannis. I wouldn't mind Blake Griffin back as a body/energy guy.

[gouki88]

my only worry with letting Grant go is who will we throw at Giannis/Embiid in the playoffs.

Are you serious, they both still score 30 + points with Grant on them...

Grant may find out his market wasn't what he thought it was and end up back here on the qualifying other.

You might be right. I don't think Grant is going to get anything close to what he demanded last year..

I guess you have a point. Maybe we just need any big who wont back down against Giannis. I wouldn't mind Blake Griffin back as a body/energy guy.

Semi Ojeleye

[CelticsWhat35]

my only worry with letting Grant go is who will we throw at Giannis/Embiid in the playoffs.

Are you serious, they both still score 30 + points with Grant on them...

Grant may find out his market wasn't what he thought it was and end up back here on the qualifying other.

Grant was clearly our best defender against Giannis.  I think people forget because we didn’t have to play them in the playoffs this year.  Horford was better against Embiid because he could just shoot over Grant, but GW is still a valuable piece to this team.  He’s not worth the $20 mil per that he’s looking for and I’m sure the market will prove that out, but it would be a loss that’s not easily replaceable with our cap situation.

[Celtics4ever]

my only worry with letting Grant go is who will we throw at Giannis/Embiid in the playoffs.

Are you serious, they both still score 30 + points with Grant on them...

Grant may find out his market wasn't what he thought it was and end up back here on the qualifying other.

Grant was clearly our best defender against Giannis.  I think people forget because we didn’t have to play them in the playoffs this year.  Horford was better against Embiid because he could just shoot over Grant, but GW is still a valuable piece to this team.  He’s not worth the $20 mil per that he’s looking for and I’m sure the market will prove that out, but it would be a loss that’s not easily replaceable with our cap situation.

Clearly, I would like to challenge that claim.   What are you basing that on?   The eye test?   Because  stats contradict that.   I know people like to think and I 've heard it often.    With all due respect, I would contend that it is an urban myth of sorts.   

Grant Williams has a defensive rating of 113.0 versus Giannis Antetokounmpo in his career.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/guannis-antetokounmpo-versus-grant-williams

Giannis Antetokounmpo has averaged 26.4 points, 11.2 rebounds and 5.0 assists in 11 games versus Grant Williams in his career.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/grant-williams-def-rating-vs-giannis

Giannis Antetokounmpo has averaged 22.4 points, 8.7 rebounds and 4.3 assists in 32 games versus the Celtics in his career.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/giannis-stats-vs-boston-celtics

Fun facts

Al Horford has a defensive rating of 105.2 versus Giannis Antetokounmpo in his career.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/horford-defensive-rating-against-giannis

Jayson Tatum has a defensive rating of 110.9 versus Giannis Antetokounmpo in his career.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jayson-tatum-defensive-rating-vs-giannis

Robert Williams III has a defensive rating of 110.8 versus Giannis Antetokounmpo in his career.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/robert-williams-defensive-rating-vs-giannis

So is it really true Grant is the best defender against him?  Al is better but age is creeping up on him.  Even Tatum and Rob are better options.   Some this could be due to whom is doing the help on Giannis, granted or whom Grant is playing with.  Defensive rating (DRtg) is a statistic used to measure how many points a player or team allows on average over the course of 100 team possessions. Developed by Dean Oliver, this metric is used to assess the defensive strength or weakness of a player or team. A lower number indicates a better defensive rating.

Now I realize Grant is a body and he gives us some  good fouls which is always useful.    I  was off about the 30 points by four points but I was half kidding.   I realize we  need bodies and Grant is far more useful as a floor spreader than as a lock down defender which he never has been. 

The league-average for Defensive Rating was 110.6, so we can apply the same principles here to say that a rating higher than this is “bad” and a rating lower than this is “good.  Grant was a 112.9 this past year and  has had  a defensive rating of 110.9 in his career.   So he been close to that average for the majority of his career.   This year he was not but not far off the average.   

I have no problem resigning him for the right price.    That right price is the qualifying offer as I see it.

[Celtics4ever]

I would like to add no one looks good guarding Giannis to be fair to Grant.

[kraidstar]

In that interview it really sounds like Grabt still sees himself as a member of this organization.

He strikes me as being a cerebral dude. And a loyal one. If he does love it here I hope he come to the conclusion that a few extra million will not replace happiness.

I say resign him if the money is reasonable.

[Goldstar88]

In that interview it really sounds like Grabt still sees himself as a member of this organization.

He strikes me as being a cerebral dude. And a loyal one. If he does love it here I hope he come to the conclusion that a few extra million will not replace happiness.

I say resign him if the money is reasonable.

They tried. I’m not sure a team is even going to pay him what was reportedly offered last summer. Could be a Dennis Schroder like fumble.

via Jared Weiss @ The Athletic
When the season began, Grant Williams had turned down an extension offer and was flexing his newfound ability to attack closeouts with creativity. He was in the best groove of his career, looking like a flush market was waiting for him in free agency. But things have gone south since, coincidentally timed with a report Williams is seeking up to $20 million annually, per Marc Stein. That figure is considered premature and a target number has not been established internally yet as he has focused on the season, league sources with knowledge of Williams’ thinking told The Athletic. Williams’ representatives and the team discussed an extension before the season that could have reached the low-$50 million range over four seasons but could not agree on the guarantee structure, league sources with knowledge of the negotiations said.

[johnnygreen]

I don't know about the upcoming CBA, but it sounds like the middle class players may be hurt the most. Unfortunately for Grant, he's in the lower middle class. Then again, it may benefit the Celtics if they want to keep him.

[cman88]

I don't know about the upcoming CBA, but it sounds like the middle class players may be hurt the most. Unfortunately for Grant, he's in the lower middle class. Then again, it may benefit the Celtics if they want to keep him.

That is what is going to happen. I'm surprised the NBAPA didn't foresee it.

It's what happened in the NFL. QBs and WRs making crazy money while everyone else salary going down or staying the same.

[Neurotic Guy]

I don't know about the upcoming CBA, but it sounds like the middle class players may be hurt the most. Unfortunately for Grant, he's in the lower middle class. Then again, it may benefit the Celtics if they want to keep him.

That is what is going to happen. I'm surprised the NBAPA didn't foresee it.

It's what happened in the NFL. QBs and WRs making crazy money while everyone else salary going down or staying the same.

The lower middle class get by…. on 10M a year.  Now that’s crazy — a 24 year old guy who spends half the game seated and whose ceiling may not be much higher than present getting a 3/30M (or so) contract.   I get the point of salaries being lopsided in favor of the top, but a middle class NBA player still makes a whole lot of money.

[cman88]

I don't know about the upcoming CBA, but it sounds like the middle class players may be hurt the most. Unfortunately for Grant, he's in the lower middle class. Then again, it may benefit the Celtics if they want to keep him.

That is what is going to happen. I'm surprised the NBAPA didn't foresee it.

It's what happened in the NFL. QBs and WRs making crazy money while everyone else salary going down or staying the same.

The lower middle class get by…. on 10M a year.  Now that’s crazy — a 24 year old guy who spends half the game seated and whose ceiling may not be much higher than present getting a 3/30M (or so) contract.   I get the point of salaries being lopsided in favor of the top, but a middle class NBA player still makes a whole lot of money.

They do, but I have a feeling that number will be crunched even more than the $10million once the new CBA kicks in fully. the NBA thinks this will spread salaries throughout the league with stars being more spread out and less "stacked rosters"

what will probably happen is the stars will still get their supermax and max contracts. You aren't going to let a Giannis or Tatum leave. and then the teams now having less cap to work with around the league will all offer peanuts to the guys remaining. It will lead to a depressed market for those guys. they'll be fine. but I don't think it will have the effect people think it will.

It's already starting. Grant william wanted $20million last year. he will be lucky to get $10million this year. and in a year or two? maybe $5-6million. Not bad money. but the stars will still make their $50-60million

this happened in the NFL. Teams just prioritized what positions to pay. and in turn other positions markets got depressed. it's created more of a divide in the salaries. not less.