Is Grant a goner? (Yes: Traded to DAL for second rounders)

[bdm860]

I think we'll see something around $54 million guaranteed, with incentives that could get him to $62 million, probably based on 3-point shooting and all-defense honors.

Am I missing something, or are you combining Grant and Robert Williams here?


Where's Grant in the rotation? He was 5th in the playoffs for mpg, but 7th during the regular season.  Brogdon pushes him further down the list, but Al's age and any Time Lord injuries will move him back up.

How many playoff teams are paying full non-tax payer mid-level money to their 7-8th man?  (Perhaps the Celtics already if you think Grant is better than White, ha).

[Vermont Green]

Well, we have this almost settled, nothing left for Grant or the Celtics to do.   

Another way to look at this (which also ends up about the same place) is that Rob Williams is going to make $11.6M (min) in 2023-24 but up to $12.8M with all incentives.  To me, it is fair that Grant starts in this range but not more than Rob.  If the MLE starts at $11.4M as Celtic2021 indicates, it is all right in the same ball park.

It was reasonable for RWill to have games played incentives based on the injury history.  Maybe Grant has other incentives, 6th man of the year or something like that, but start him closer to $11M with some easy incentives to get him up to say $11.5M'ish and unlikely incentives to get him higher.  And maybe give him the last year as a player option.

As I said, they always get more than I think.  Get this done and then they can start working on an extension for Brown.

[nickagneta]

Today Grant Williams was named the 99th best player on the ESPN top 100 players in the NBA list.

Currently Will Barton is the 99th highest paid player in the league at $14.375 million a year.

Seems logical for Grant to ask for a 4 year $60-70 million contract given the extension doesn't kick in for a couple years and the salary cap will be jolting upward.

I'm not saying I would pay him that, but his ask of that type money isn't a gross overpay either given who is getting paid at around 100th best player in the league territory. Here is who is making what at around that level. Grant is better than a lot of those guys.

http://www.espn.com/nba/salaries/_/page/3/seasontype/1

[Celtics2021]

I think we'll see something around $54 million guaranteed, with incentives that could get him to $62 million, probably based on 3-point shooting and all-defense honors.

Am I missing something, or are you combining Grant and Robert Williams here?


Where's Grant in the rotation? He was 5th in the playoffs for mpg, but 7th during the regular season.  Brogdon pushes him further down the list, but Al's age and any Time Lord injuries will move him back up.

How many playoff teams are paying full non-tax payer mid-level money to their 7-8th man?  (Perhaps the Celtics already if you think Grant is better than White, ha).

I'm not sure what you're missing with the bolded.  I think incentives for Grant will be based on defense and 3-point shooting, as those are the most valuable elements he brings to the team that you want him to maintain.  Rob has all-defense and games played, because defense is obviously important and availability has been a problem.   I didn't mix them up.

MLE or above isn't crazy for a spot starter or 6th-7th man.  The Clippers go 9 deep with MLE+ contracts, so I have plenty to draw from there.  The Raptors just resigned Boucher for 3 years, $35 million for reserve role.  The Suns gave Shamet about 97% of the projected MLE when they gave him his extension.  The Bucks just resigned Bobby Portis to an MLE+ deal, coming off a postseason where he averaged 3 fewer minutes per game than Grant.  Sure, there are some more top-heavy teams like the Nets, or teams with a bunch of guys on rookie contracts like the Grizzlies, but it's not extravagant.  Just last year the Celtics traded for Derrick White, who makes far above the MLE, for a reserve role, and this summer added Brogdan, who makes more still, for a reserve role. 

[Vermont Green]

Today Grant Williams was named the 99th best player on the ESPN top 100 players in the NBA list.

Currently Will Barton is the 99th highest paid player in the league at $14.375 million a year.

Seems logical for Grant to ask for a 4 year $60-70 million contract given the extension doesn't kick in for a couple years and the salary cap will be jolting upward.

I'm not saying I would pay him that, but his ask of that type money isn't a gross overpay either given who is getting paid at around 100th best player in the league territory. Here is who is making what at around that level. Grant is better than a lot of those guys.

http://www.espn.com/nba/salaries/_/page/3/seasontype/1

99th best?  So 30 teams, on average the 3rd or 4th best player on an average team?  He is probably 8th or 9th best on our team.  I see him as more of maybe 6th best on an average team so somewhere more around 165th best in the league.

But he will get more than I think.  They almost always do.

[bdm860]

I'm not sure what you're missing with the bolded.

Well the man has never gotten a single All-D vote, that would be an unlikely incentive.  So I thought  maybe you were taking R. Williams All-D selection and G. Williams 40% shooting and combining them (it would be nice if we could combine the two).

[Goldstar88]

Today Grant Williams was named the 99th best player on the ESPN top 100 players in the NBA list.

Currently Will Barton is the 99th highest paid player in the league at $14.375 million a year.

Seems logical for Grant to ask for a 4 year $60-70 million contract given the extension doesn't kick in for a couple years and the salary cap will be jolting upward.

I'm not saying I would pay him that, but his ask of that type money isn't a gross overpay either given who is getting paid at around 100th best player in the league territory. Here is who is making what at around that level. Grant is better than a lot of those guys.

http://www.espn.com/nba/salaries/_/page/3/seasontype/1

99th best?  So 30 teams, on average the 3rd or 4th best player on an average team?  He is probably 8th or 9th best on our team.  I see him as more of maybe 6th best on an average team so somewhere more around 165th best in the league.

But he will get more than I think.  They almost always do.

Agreed. 7.8pts and 3.6rebs in 24 minutes of play per game is not a top 100 player. I like Grant at 10-12M/year. Otherwise, let him test the market like Marcus did.

[Celtics2021]

I'm not sure what you're missing with the bolded.

Well the man has never gotten a single All-D vote, that would be an unlikely incentive.  So I thought  maybe you were taking R. Williams All-D selection and G. Williams 40% shooting and combining them (it would be nice if we could combine the two).

Rob had never received an All-Defense vote prior to him getting that incentive added into his contract.  Grant’s defense is something that has improved a lot in his career, is a strength, and is something he takes pride in.  An incentive based on All-Defense wouldn’t be surprising.  If they’re concerned about his conditioning, they might also look to the body-fat percentage incentive in Smart’s deal.

[bdm860]

I'm not sure what you're missing with the bolded.

Well the man has never gotten a single All-D vote, that would be an unlikely incentive.  So I thought  maybe you were taking R. Williams All-D selection and G. Williams 40% shooting and combining them (it would be nice if we could combine the two).

Rob had never received an All-Defense vote prior to him getting that incentive added into his contract.  Grant’s defense is something that has improved a lot in his career, is a strength, and is something he takes pride in.  An incentive based on All-Defense wouldn’t be surprising.  If they’re concerned about his conditioning, they might also look to the body-fat percentage incentive in Smart’s deal.

Ha, I knew you were going to say that.  Was thinking about my reply and thought I should probably have put in something about "projections" because Celtics2021 is going to come back with an example of a guy who earned his incentives with no prior history.

I think with a guy like Rob, the possibility of being All-D seemed a lot more possible (just stay healthy and get some more minutes) and I think we all saw his potential (especially with his great block numbers)  I don't see the same possibility with a guy like Grant.  There's not something like health or more minutes that's going to allow him to reach new accolades. 

If Grant gets that incentive in his contact, he ain't ever seeing that money.  I would love to be wrong though.  But if you wanted to bet me that Grant Williams is ever selected All-D, I would take that bet.

[sgrogan]

I'm not sure what you're missing with the bolded.

Well the man has never gotten a single All-D vote, that would be an unlikely incentive.  So I thought  maybe you were taking R. Williams All-D selection and G. Williams 40% shooting and combining them (it would be nice if we could combine the two).

Rob had never received an All-Defense vote prior to him getting that incentive added into his contract.  Grant’s defense is something that has improved a lot in his career, is a strength, and is something he takes pride in.  An incentive based on All-Defense wouldn’t be surprising.  If they’re concerned about his conditioning, they might also look to the body-fat percentage incentive in Smart’s deal.

Ha, I knew you were going to say that.  Was thinking about my reply and thought I should probably have put in something about "projections" because Celtics2021 is going to come back with an example of a guy who earned his incentives with no prior history.

I think with a guy like Rob, the possibility of being All-D seemed a lot more possible (just stay healthy and get some more minutes) and I think we all saw his potential (especially with his great block numbers)  I don't see the same possibility with a guy like Grant.  There's not something like health or more minutes that's going to allow him to reach new accolades. 

If Grant gets that incentive in his contact, he ain't ever seeing that money.  I would love to be wrong though.  But if you wanted to bet me that Grant Williams is ever selected All-D, I would take that bet.

What about a bet that he gets 1 All-D votes before he shoots 40% from 3 again?

[Goldstar88]

I'm not sure what you're missing with the bolded.

Well the man has never gotten a single All-D vote, that would be an unlikely incentive.  So I thought  maybe you were taking R. Williams All-D selection and G. Williams 40% shooting and combining them (it would be nice if we could combine the two).

Rob had never received an All-Defense vote prior to him getting that incentive added into his contract.  Grant’s defense is something that has improved a lot in his career, is a strength, and is something he takes pride in.  An incentive based on All-Defense wouldn’t be surprising.  If they’re concerned about his conditioning, they might also look to the body-fat percentage incentive in Smart’s deal.

Ha, I knew you were going to say that.  Was thinking about my reply and thought I should probably have put in something about "projections" because Celtics2021 is going to come back with an example of a guy who earned his incentives with no prior history.

I think with a guy like Rob, the possibility of being All-D seemed a lot more possible (just stay healthy and get some more minutes) and I think we all saw his potential (especially with his great block numbers)  I don't see the same possibility with a guy like Grant.  There's not something like health or more minutes that's going to allow him to reach new accolades. 

If Grant gets that incentive in his contact, he ain't ever seeing that money.  I would love to be wrong though.  But if you wanted to bet me that Grant Williams is ever selected All-D, I would take that bet.

Rob is on a completely different level defensively and it was evident early on that he had the tools to be special on that end of the court. Grant was a poor defender for the first season or two and he is slightly above average now, IMO. He just doesn’t have the physical gifts needed to be an elite defender.

[sgrogan]

I'm not sure what you're missing with the bolded.

Well the man has never gotten a single All-D vote, that would be an unlikely incentive.  So I thought  maybe you were taking R. Williams All-D selection and G. Williams 40% shooting and combining them (it would be nice if we could combine the two).

Rob had never received an All-Defense vote prior to him getting that incentive added into his contract.  Grant’s defense is something that has improved a lot in his career, is a strength, and is something he takes pride in.  An incentive based on All-Defense wouldn’t be surprising.  If they’re concerned about his conditioning, they might also look to the body-fat percentage incentive in Smart’s deal.

Ha, I knew you were going to say that.  Was thinking about my reply and thought I should probably have put in something about "projections" because Celtics2021 is going to come back with an example of a guy who earned his incentives with no prior history.

I think with a guy like Rob, the possibility of being All-D seemed a lot more possible (just stay healthy and get some more minutes) and I think we all saw his potential (especially with his great block numbers)  I don't see the same possibility with a guy like Grant.  There's not something like health or more minutes that's going to allow him to reach new accolades. 

If Grant gets that incentive in his contact, he ain't ever seeing that money.  I would love to be wrong though.  But if you wanted to bet me that Grant Williams is ever selected All-D, I would take that bet.

Rob is on a completely different level defensively and it was evident early on that he had the tools to be special on that end of the court. Grant was a poor defender for the first season or two and he is slightly above average now, IMO. He just doesn’t have the physical tools needed to be an elite defender.

That is exactly why it would be an unlikely to be earned incentive.
If Grant were to achieve it, great, pay the man. If not it's just a contract negotiating tool.

[Celtics2021]

I'm not sure what you're missing with the bolded.

Well the man has never gotten a single All-D vote, that would be an unlikely incentive.  So I thought  maybe you were taking R. Williams All-D selection and G. Williams 40% shooting and combining them (it would be nice if we could combine the two).

Rob had never received an All-Defense vote prior to him getting that incentive added into his contract.  Grant’s defense is something that has improved a lot in his career, is a strength, and is something he takes pride in.  An incentive based on All-Defense wouldn’t be surprising.  If they’re concerned about his conditioning, they might also look to the body-fat percentage incentive in Smart’s deal.

Ha, I knew you were going to say that.  Was thinking about my reply and thought I should probably have put in something about "projections" because Celtics2021 is going to come back with an example of a guy who earned his incentives with no prior history.

I think with a guy like Rob, the possibility of being All-D seemed a lot more possible (just stay healthy and get some more minutes) and I think we all saw his potential (especially with his great block numbers)  I don't see the same possibility with a guy like Grant.  There's not something like health or more minutes that's going to allow him to reach new accolades. 

If Grant gets that incentive in his contact, he ain't ever seeing that money.  I would love to be wrong though.  But if you wanted to bet me that Grant Williams is ever selected All-D, I would take that bet.

The point of incentives is to create a goal.  If Grant wants to be a $15 million a year player instead of a $13 million a year player, making good on an all-defense incentive would do just that.  I didn’t say, nor would I expect, that all of Grant’s incentives would be likely met.  I just think they’ll exist, and put the max value of the deal a little north of $60 million.

Also, incentives can be weird sometimes.  Nick Collison once had an MVP incentive.  Power to him if he earned it.

[Goldstar88]

There does not seem to be an extension coming for forward Grant Williams, sources said. And it’s believed the Suns have interest in Derrick White. However, Boston just sent a first-round pick plus a future pick swap to San Antonio for his services in February. The Celtics aren’t involved in Crowder’s trade situation at this time either, sources said.
Source: Jake Fischer @ Yahoo! Sports

[slamtheking]

There does not seem to be an extension coming for forward Grant Williams, sources said. And it’s believed the Suns have interest in Derrick White. However, Boston just sent a first-round pick plus a future pick swap to San Antonio for his services in February. The Celtics aren’t involved in Crowder’s trade situation at this time either, sources said.
Source: Jake Fischer @ Yahoo! Sports

basically a whole lot of nothing