Are NBA games pre-determined?

[Phantom255x]

I'm embarrassed this thread exists.  Shameful.  Anyone voting yes should adjust their tin foil hat because it is clearly malfunctioning. 

And just remember, the Celtics have won the most titles, what does that say if the league fixes games?

Just totally disgusted that this exists.  This is why people hate New England sports fans.  Crap like this.

I voted yes and I'm not changing it. I have seen the other posts and yeah, maybe I misunderstood a tiny bit, they definitely don't just go in saying, "make sure this team wins for sure, or else". But you can't be telling me there's no agendas involved going into certain games. In a long series there's never any consistency with how the refs call it for each team in different games.

It's just sometimes, no matter what the refs do if you have say a historically bad shooting night or something, it doesn't matter anyways. But the refs will do everything to rig an outcome to the best of their ability.

[slamtheking]

On a related note, I do think teams - especially in the Finals - should be allowed to choose 1 or 2 refs they do not want officiating their series. The Cs have obviously had their issues with Zarba and are now 1-4 in games he's officiated these playoffs, while being 12-3 in non-Zarba games. Chris Paul is 0 for his last 14 with Scott Foster as his ref in the playoffs. And then you have instances like the Joey Crawford vs Popovich feud.

This seems easy enough and could even be done behind closed doors as to not single out individual refs to the public. There is just too much at stake for these teams and you should never feel like you have no chance with a certain ref. That can mess with you mentally - even if the game is officiated well.

I wouldn't be against that --> perhaps 2 or 3 refs per team can be excluded, not just one.  Refs union wouldn't go for it but league should be able to put that in place and keep it quiet.  Loss of playoff money for the excluded refs just might drive home the point that they have issues they need to address to get that extra playoff money back.

[mef730]

Early returns: 1/3 of the people that voted say yes. I bet that is a much higher rate than national NBA viewing audience. I also think that people are choosing not to engage with this poll/topic as it resembles many other far-fetched conspiracies in this world.

It's definitely more than the national NBA viewing audience, but the people on this board are way more engaged than the average NBA fan. The average fan is just turning on a game to be entertained. We're here arguing about every nuance on each play. There's a certain amount of seeing what you want to see.

I voted no, by the way.

Mike

[kraidstar]

I'm embarrassed this thread exists.  Shameful.  Anyone voting yes should adjust their tin foil hat because it is clearly malfunctioning. 

And just remember, the Celtics have won the most titles, what does that say if the league fixes games?

Just totally disgusted that this exists.  This is why people hate New England sports fans.  Crap like this.

New England sports fans don't complain much about the officiating in other sports. There is a reason this league gets singled out the way it does.

[Kernewek]

I'm embarrassed this thread exists.  Shameful.  Anyone voting yes should adjust their tin foil hat because it is clearly malfunctioning. 

And just remember, the Celtics have won the most titles, what does that say if the league fixes games?

Just totally disgusted that this exists.  This is why people hate New England sports fans.  Crap like this.

New England sports fans don't complain much about the officiating in other sports. There is a reason this league gets singled out the way it does.

This has to be satire. If it's not, I've got a deflated football (or, in another universe, a helmet that caught a football) NFT to sell you.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

I'm embarrassed this thread exists.  Shameful.  Anyone voting yes should adjust their tin foil hat because it is clearly malfunctioning. 

And just remember, the Celtics have won the most titles, what does that say if the league fixes games?

Just totally disgusted that this exists.  This is why people hate New England sports fans.  Crap like this.

New England sports fans don't complain much about the officiating in other sports. There is a reason this league gets singled out the way it does.

This has to be satire. If it's not, I've got a deflated football (or, in another universe, a helmet that caught a football) NFT to sell you.

TP. I remember all of the witch hunt comments and conspiracies of how Roger Goodell was trying to screw the Patriots.

I love the Patriots, but Belichick was constantly pushing the envelope and the NFL had enough. Maybe they redirected their frustration with BB onto Tom Brady, but there was a reason that they were heavy handed- all of the small measures to keep BB within the lines of ethical behavior were failing.

For an area of the country that boasts resiliency through winters and a "tough guy" approach to sports, we sure are sensitive when someone puts a mirror in our face.

[angryguy77]

Credit to those that are willing to admit we’re watching fiction. Some are trying to hedge their bets by saying something about slanted whistles. Maybe they don’t want to acknowledge the Celtics inadequacies, but are too self conscious to back up their accusations when given the chance to answer a yes/no question in plain language. I don’t get this. Why clamor about refs in a game thread on repeat, then decline the opportunity to vote accordingly? It’s really not a nuanced take- either Silver is handpicking refs to determine an outcome or not.

I think we should clarify the words and what they mean when they are used. I'm guilty of this and so are others, and while I can't speak for everyone, I'd think they would agree with the following I'm going to say. When "fixed" "rigged" etc are thrown around, I don't mean in the literally sense. As I noted earlier, Silver isn't calling the coaches and telling them to play poorly to lose a game. It' means the league is doing what it can without being too obvious(although after last game I wonder if they even care about appearance) to get an outcome they want. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes teams just overcome adversity or some scenarios don't happen which make it harder for a whistle to be blown.

No one that subscribes to this doesn't also think Boston didn't contribute to the lose on their own. Yes, sometimes they play in bad officiated games while compounding it with poor play. In this last game for instance, with the blatant way they allowed Green to act like a lunatic, I don't think they win unless they play way above their norm on a good night. I'm beating a dead horse I know, but those antics where not missed, they were allowed. It would be one thing if we had smart getting away with that same stuff but it didn't happen.

You wonder why many of us stick around despite believing the league is crooked. It's because many of us became fans before we had this realization. Many of us grew up in an era when you didn't have instance video evidence of what Green did or players talking about how they have special treatment. This team is part of our lives, so even though you may not respect the league, you hope your team can rise about the handicap the league will put on them depending on how the series is going. To be clear, I don't believe it's a matter of the front office having it our for certain teams, but a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[johnnygreen]

Speaking of poor officiating. A few years ago, the NBA said they wanted to crack down on flopping. Yet, flopping is still rampant. Why do the officials still call these fouls, when a player is obviously flopping. I don't want to hear the excuse of the game being too fast. If I can see it in real time, then how come a professional official can't see the same thing?

Or is there a conspiracy involved? If the officials are willing to call fouls in these situations, it leaves room for interpretation, i.e. the opportunity for refs to influence the game.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

Credit to those that are willing to admit we’re watching fiction. Some are trying to hedge their bets by saying something about slanted whistles. Maybe they don’t want to acknowledge the Celtics inadequacies, but are too self conscious to back up their accusations when given the chance to answer a yes/no question in plain language. I don’t get this. Why clamor about refs in a game thread on repeat, then decline the opportunity to vote accordingly? It’s really not a nuanced take- either Silver is handpicking refs to determine an outcome or not.

I think we should clarify the words and what they mean when they are used. I'm guilty of this and so are others, and while I can't speak for everyone, I'd think they would agree with the following I'm going to say. When "fixed" "rigged" etc are thrown around, I don't mean in the literally sense. As I noted earlier, Silver isn't calling the coaches and telling them to play poorly to lose a game. It' means the league is doing what it can without being too obvious(although after last game I wonder if they even care about appearance) to get an outcome they want. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes teams just overcome adversity or some scenarios don't happen which make it harder for a whistle to be blown.

No one that subscribes to this doesn't also think Boston didn't contribute to the lose on their own. Yes, sometimes they play in bad officiated games while compounding it with poor play. In this last game for instance, with the blatant way they allowed Green to act like a lunatic, I don't think they win unless they play way above their norm on a good night. I'm beating a dead horse I know, but those antics where not missed, they were allowed. It would be one thing if we had smart getting away with that same stuff but it didn't happen.

You wonder why many of us stick around despite believing the league is crooked. It's because many of us became fans before we had this realization. Many of us grew up in an era when you didn't have instance video evidence of what Green did or players talking about how they have special treatment. This team is part of our lives, so even though you may not respect the league, you hope your team can rise about the handicap the league will put on them depending on how the series is going. To be clear, I don't believe it's a matter of the front office having it our for certain teams, but a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

TP. well said.

The NBA is by far the most corrupted league based on officiating easily. i mean donaghy told us about the league mandates on certain teams and players at certain times. steve javie just backed that up last game on air!  we have seen it since 2002. 

THe NFL is trash as well and also caters to new and or big market teams. see rams in 2018 in NFCCG against the saints and the no call on them when they blatantly did not call DPI and a PF on same play which robbed the saints of winning. they also stopped calling roughing passer after that on brees. They wanted LA there. LA had a new stadium. new NFL WEST headquarters are in LA right by SOFI stadium!.  LA lost in SB but got back this year and won. LA has had trouble keeping teams there and keeping fans. $$$$$$.  I mean the NFL admits it is NOT a competitive sport. They claim they are ENTERTAINMENT! WWE is entertainment also.

worst to best officiating:

1) NBA- pure trash. corrupt. proven by donaghy, bavetta, foster, crawford, etc and seen with your own eyes for two decades. javie admitted this other night. scary.


2) NFL- trash but not quite as smelly albeit they have agendas also.

3) NHL- have gotten much better over the years, used to be pretty bad at times

4) MLB-best calls in sports overall. nothing else comes close. 

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

Speaking of poor officiating. A few years ago, the NBA said they wanted to crack down on flopping. Yet, flopping is still rampant. Why do the officials still call these fouls, when a player is obviously flopping. I don't want to hear the excuse of the game being too fast. If I can see it in real time, then how come a professional official can't see the same thing?

Or is there a conspiracy involved? If the officials are willing to call fouls in these situations, it leaves room for interpretation, i.e. the opportunity for refs to influence the game.

word i have heard is you have to flop to get certain calls at times. if you do not hit floor they simply will not always call what you want

[droopdog7]

I will say this; you can generally see the between-game adjustments the refs make game to game.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

I will say this; you can generally see the between adjustments the refs make game to game.

zarba is a puppet and a shill. last two games he did with us he killed momentum any time we had it. that miami game was basically egregious.

[Yuckabuck33]

The NBA has dug itself into a hole by putting most of their eggs in the cable tv basket, while more and more people cut the cord. They HAVE to make sure that the networks get their expected ad revenue. And they HAVE to keep drawing in the fairweather and football fans who only know the names of stars.
So, they HAVE to extend series longer and they HAVE to make sure the stars aren't defeated or embarrassed.
Usually, the refs win out. This is explicitly how Donaghy was able to predict wins based on who was reffing.
Sometimes, a team overcomes, like in game 4 against Brooklyn. Foster tried to send the series to 5 and save Durant's reputation. It didn't work.
Game 2 of the Finals, it worked.
Everyone is talking about the Warriors and their dynasty and the series is tied.

[angryguy77]

The NBA has dug itself into a hole by putting most of their eggs in the cable tv basket, while more and more people cut the cord. They HAVE to make sure that the networks get their expected ad revenue. And they HAVE to keep drawing in the fairweather and football fans who only know the names of stars.
So, they HAVE to extend series longer and they HAVE to make sure the stars aren't defeated or embarrassed.
Usually, the refs win out. This is explicitly how Donaghy was able to predict wins based on who was reffing.
Sometimes, a team overcomes, like in game 4 against Brooklyn. Foster tried to send the series to 5 and save Durant's reputation. It didn't work.
Game 2 of the Finals, it worked.
Everyone is talking about the Warriors and their dynasty and the series is tied.

I think we can even go back further with the hole they dug. When they started promoting the star more than the team, it became a game of individuals rather than rivalries.

[Goldstar88]

I feel like a lot of conspiracy theories try to target a motive/reason, and fill in the gaps to achieve a particular end.

Motive: the NBA wants to make money.
Solution: fix NBA games and create artificial results to maximize money

"While all of us can be prone to seeing illusory patterns (such as a face in the clouds), a study led by Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam showed that this tendency is heightened among believers in conspiracy theories. This means they are likely to see apparent connections between disparate events that the rest of us just don’t notice."

https://www.sciencefocus.com/the-human-body/conspiracy-theories-belief/

They do want to maximize profit and have longer series, but I don’t see how it can be an artificial result when the best team wins the series every time. Where’s Lebron? Shouldn’t the league have fixed the games so that the most popular NBA player on the planet is at least in the playoffs?

So they're guiding it to a predetermined outcome. Warriors in 7? Celtics in 6?

They slant the whistle to favor the home team. It doesn’t guarantee an outcome like a fix does, but it certainly has an influence on the game. From a business standpoint it isn’t good for there to be sweeps. The Mavs/Warriors matchup for the western conference finals was horrendous. Even with Dallas getting the home court whistle, it wasn’t enough to make that a series. The league lost a lot of money with it ending in a gentleman’s sweep and it was not entertaining to watch at all.

How does this square with the actual sweep that occurred during the Boston & Brooklyn series? Did the home team get slanted whistles with a measurable influence?

Nets definitely got calls, but it wasn’t enough. Just like it wasn’t enough for Dallas. This is why it’s not fixed, but slanted.