What (if anything) is wrong with Jaylen?

[Surferdad]

Jaylen has been dealing with a leg injury all postseason.  We saw it act up at the end of the Nets series, to the point we were worried he’d have to miss time.  It was mentioned by someone connected with the Celtics after the Nets series that it wasn’t just something that happened in Game 4.  He’s played through it and played a lot of minutes, and been effective.  Just not quite as effective as he otherwise could be.

I tend to agree that it's a nagging injury.  Could be his leg, but might be his wrist as I saw him shake it a few times in these playoffs. Does this explain his horrible handle during these playoffs? He's the kind of guy who refuses to make excuses so he won't admit it, perhaps we'll find out in the off-season.

[Who]

Jaylen has been dealing with a leg injury all postseason.  We saw it act up at the end of the Nets series, to the point we were worried he’d have to miss time.  It was mentioned by someone connected with the Celtics after the Nets series that it wasn’t just something that happened in Game 4.  He’s played through it and played a lot of minutes, and been effective.  Just not quite as effective as he otherwise could be.

I tend to agree that it's a nagging injury.  Could be his leg, but might be his wrist as I saw him shake it a few times in these playoffs. Does this explain his horrible handle during these playoffs? He's the kind of guy who refuses to make excuses so he won't admit it, perhaps we'll find out in the off-season.

Jaylen seems to have pretty poor hands in general in terms of catching & controlling the ball either when receiving passes or pulling down rebounds. He miscontrols / initially fumbles the ball more than most other players.

[jpotter33]

Probably a combination of his hamstring, fatigue, and overall more intense defense in the playoffs. I do think his weak handle is really limiting him in the playoffs, though, and it has him second guessing what to do offensively. It’s so weird, too, because at the beginning of last year it seemed that he had majorly improved his handle. But at some point in the last two seasons it’s gone back downhill again.

[Amonkey]

Probably a combination of his hamstring, fatigue, and overall more intense defense in the playoffs. I do think his weak handle is really limiting him in the playoffs, though, and it has him second guessing what to do offensively. It’s so weird, too, because at the beginning of last year it seemed that he had majorly improved his handle. But at some point in the last two seasons it’s gone back downhill again.

I feel that first, he has improved tremendously his handle compared to what he was before. Another thing I have noticed is that he has improved in the 'rehearsed handle' where he's confident on what he wants to do before he makes the move. I think that usually opens up for a lot of shots. However, when he is forced to adjust the handle, that is when he gets careless.

Basically, when he knows what he wants to do and where he wants to go, his handling is good. When he doesn't know what he wants to do and is just dribbling to create, he gets sloppy. Maybe that is the next evolution of his handle.

[jambr380]

It should also be noted that Jaylen is so incredibly athletic with his movements that handle for him is different than somebody without his athleticism. Like that Eurostep on the break in the 1st half - there are just a handful of players who can make that move in the whole league.

It's not great that he has been getting so slippery with the ball lately, and hopefully that can improve, but it's better than watching Tatum lackadaisically toss the ball to the Heat players at the top of the key seemingly every possession in the 3rd quarter. I especially come down hard on Tatum here because he has excellent handle for his size.

[nickagneta]

It should also be noted that Jaylen is so incredibly athletic with his movements that handle for him is differen than somebody without his athleticism. Like that Eurostep on the break in the 1st half - there are just a handful of players who can make that move in the whole league.

It's not great that he has been getting so slippery with the ball lately, and hopefully that can improve, but it's better than watching Tatum lackadaisically toss the ball to the Heat players at the top of the key seemingly every possession in the 3rd quarter. I especially come down hard on Tatum here because he has excellent handle for his size.

Yeah, for all the complaints about Jaylen's handle, he has 10 turnovers total in the last 5 games. The guy with the supposed great handle, Tatum, has 21 turnovers in those 5 games.

[flybono]

Brown is Player who doesn’t handle the ball well and doesn’t play above the rim at an elite level in the half court game thus he gets bottled up more times than not making a push to the basket

IMO he has gotten much better this season at both but the player is still at times a liability

IMO the Celtics are still a Veteran ball handler and a legit Veteran shooter away from a championship

Can they beat Heat? Yes they can but much like Game 2 vs Bucks the starting 8 need to be running on all cylinders not the inconsistency we saw in Game 1

[dannyboy35]

I've seen a few posts talking about Jaylen looking disengaged for long periods.  Some have speculated that he's sulking.  Equally likely is that he's being bothered by nagging injuries, fatigue, a slump, or nothing at all.

First, his playoff numbers:

22.3 points, 6.8 rebounds, 3.8 assists, .550 eFG%, 74.2% FT%

... compared to his regular season:

23.6 points, 6.1 rebounds, 3.1 assists, .541 eFG%, 75.8% FT%

That seems pretty consistent.  The only significant drop is scoring on a per minute basis; he's gone from 25.3 points / 36 minutes in the regular season to 21.1 points / 36 in the playoffs.  Still, that's a career high, and he's maintained his efficiency.  (You see similar numbers with his per possession scoring numbers).  The reason for that dip in scoring average doesn't seem to be due to poorer shooting, but rather because he's taking fewer attempts.

What should the lack of attempts be attributed to?  It's not as easy as "Tatum is taking more shots".  In fact, Tatum is taking fewer shots per 100 possessions than he did in the regular season.  Really, the only rotation regulars who have seen their shots attempts go up significantly have been Marcus and Grant.  And, I suspect that's because our guys are taking what the opposing defense gives to them.

My thoughts are that last night (until the last six minutes of the game) was a bit of an aberration for Jaylen.  Yes, he played poorly, shot poorly, and missed FTs.  But overall, I don't see a lot of *statistical* support to say that he's injured, slumping, or sulking.  The missed FTs are weird (3 missed FTAs in Game 6; 3 missed FTAs in Game 7; 4 missed FTAs in Game 1), and his production through 3.5 quarters last night was poor, but overall he's the same old JB.

Anybody disagree?

   Nope. Sounds right to me.

[RockinRyA]

I've seen a few posts talking about Jaylen looking disengaged for long periods.  Some have speculated that he's sulking.  Equally likely is that he's being bothered by nagging injuries, fatigue, a slump, or nothing at all.

First, his playoff numbers:

22.3 points, 6.8 rebounds, 3.8 assists, .550 eFG%, 74.2% FT%

... compared to his regular season:

23.6 points, 6.1 rebounds, 3.1 assists, .541 eFG%, 75.8% FT%

That seems pretty consistent.  The only significant drop is scoring on a per minute basis; he's gone from 25.3 points / 36 minutes in the regular season to 21.1 points / 36 in the playoffs.  Still, that's a career high, and he's maintained his efficiency.  (You see similar numbers with his per possession scoring numbers).  The reason for that dip in scoring average doesn't seem to be due to poorer shooting, but rather because he's taking fewer attempts.

What should the lack of attempts be attributed to?  It's not as easy as "Tatum is taking more shots".  In fact, Tatum is taking fewer shots per 100 possessions than he did in the regular season.  Really, the only rotation regulars who have seen their shots attempts go up significantly have been Marcus and Grant.  And, I suspect that's because our guys are taking what the opposing defense gives to them.

My thoughts are that last night (until the last six minutes of the game) was a bit of an aberration for Jaylen.  Yes, he played poorly, shot poorly, and missed FTs.  But overall, I don't see a lot of *statistical* support to say that he's injured, slumping, or sulking.  The missed FTs are weird (3 missed FTAs in Game 6; 3 missed FTAs in Game 7; 4 missed FTAs in Game 1), and his production through 3.5 quarters last night was poor, but overall he's the same old JB.

Anybody disagree?

Agreed. ALthough I think a lot of last night has something to do with 1) minor nagging injuries (typical playoff stuff) 2) defense 3) Smart and Horford out with him in unusual lineups. A lot of his poor play was with Tatum on the bench and he was the focal point.

[tenn_smoothie]

Jaylen is a mediocre ball handler and facilitator, hence he's at his best when playing in the open court. Most playoff games are decided in the half court. Rule of thumb is that the pace of the game slows down come playoff time. To his credit, he has come a long way as a ball handler/facilitator, but he's nowhere near Tatum's level.

To Brown's discredit, he can't seem to understand the importance of playing within his limitations. If you consistently try to push beyond those, bad things tend to happen - mostly turnovers. If he is also in some mental/emotional sulk for whatever might be the reason, he picked a hell of a time for it. It's immature and it's self-centered. Jaylen has such a great opportunity to fit his game into that #1B star role and be a great player in the great tradition of Celtic co-stars, who have their numbers hanging over the court and their plaque in the Hall of Fame., Heinhson, Havlicek, Sam Jones, Jo Jo, Max, McHale, Pierce come to mind.

Celtic Pride, Jaylen, Celtic Pride !!!!!!

[Jvalin]

Jaylen is a mediocre ball handler and facilitator, hence he's at his best when playing in the open court. Most playoff games are decided in the half court. Rule of thumb is that the pace of the game slows down come playoff time. To his credit, he has come a long way as a ball handler/facilitator, but he's nowhere near Tatum's level.

To Brown's discredit, he can't seem to understand the importance of playing within his limitations. If you consistently try to push beyond those, bad things tend to happen - mostly turnovers. If he is also in some mental/emotional sulk for whatever might be the reason, he picked a hell of a time for it. It's immature and it's self-centered. Jaylen has such a great opportunity to fit his game into that #1B star role and be a great player in the great tradition of Celtic co-stars, who have their numbers hanging over the court and their plaque in the Hall of Fame., Heinhson, Havlicek, Sam Jones, Jo Jo, Max, McHale, Pierce come to mind.

Celtic Pride, Jaylen, Celtic Pride !!!!!!

That's exactly what he's doing. He's clearly our second banana behind Tatum. Not his fault that you have unrealistic expectations of him.

Remember Brown during his rookie season? He couldn't put the ball on the floor in the half court. At the time, he reminded me of a more explosive, less bulky version of Crowder. Give the guy some credit. I mean, we now use him regularly as a PnR ball handler! Will he ever become a reliable decision maker in the half court? I highly doubt it, but he's still a borderline all-star. Very few players can consistently take over playoff games in the half court.

[Kernewek]

It should also be noted that Jaylen is so incredibly athletic with his movements that handle for him is differen than somebody without his athleticism. Like that Eurostep on the break in the 1st half - there are just a handful of players who can make that move in the whole league.

It's not great that he has been getting so slippery with the ball lately, and hopefully that can improve, but it's better than watching Tatum lackadaisically toss the ball to the Heat players at the top of the key seemingly every possession in the 3rd quarter. I especially come down hard on Tatum here because he has excellent handle for his size.

Yeah, for all the complaints about Jaylen's handle, he has 10 turnovers total in the last 5 games. The guy with the supposed great handle, Tatum, has 21 turnovers in those 5 games.

This is no time for facts Nick.

[gouki88]

I'm not so sure anything is 'wrong' with Jaylen. He was excellent against Milwaukee after struggling to shoot the three against Brooklyn. He had a very rough first three quarters, but definitely got going in the fourth. I expect neither he nor Tatum will have such bad stretches in G2

[td450]

It could just be that he is nursing the hamstring and resting, so he isn't putting in his normal ball handling work, which has to happen at pace. That, combined with the higher levels of gameplanning and defensive intensity, probably explains the shaky ball handling, which is really the only drop off in his game at all.

I see much more up and down from Tatum, including some horrible ball handling too. There's a hype machine out there for him that Jaylen isn't part of, so that's an inconvenient narrative. While he's been awesome for a few games, he's been incredibly checked out a few games too.

[Who]

It could just be that he is nursing the hamstring and resting, so he isn't putting in his normal ball handling work, which has to happen at pace. That, combined with the higher levels of gameplanning and defensive intensity, probably explains the shaky ball handling, which is really the only drop off in his game at all.

I see much more up and down from Tatum, including some horrible ball handling too. There's a hype machine out there for him that Jaylen isn't part of, so that's an inconvenient narrative. While he's been awesome for a few games, he's been incredibly checked out a few games too.

Agreed - Tatum has had more shockers (both bad shockers and good ones) in these playoffs than Jaylen has. Tatum's play has been strangely volatile and undependable.

Jaylen has been the more consistent of the two.