What (if anything) is wrong with Jaylen?

[Roy H.]

I've seen a few posts talking about Jaylen looking disengaged for long periods.  Some have speculated that he's sulking.  Equally likely is that he's being bothered by nagging injuries, fatigue, a slump, or nothing at all.

First, his playoff numbers:

22.3 points, 6.8 rebounds, 3.8 assists, .550 eFG%, 74.2% FT%

... compared to his regular season:

23.6 points, 6.1 rebounds, 3.1 assists, .541 eFG%, 75.8% FT%

That seems pretty consistent.  The only significant drop is scoring on a per minute basis; he's gone from 25.3 points / 36 minutes in the regular season to 21.1 points / 36 in the playoffs.  Still, that's a career high, and he's maintained his efficiency.  (You see similar numbers with his per possession scoring numbers).  The reason for that dip in scoring average doesn't seem to be due to poorer shooting, but rather because he's taking fewer attempts.

What should the lack of attempts be attributed to?  It's not as easy as "Tatum is taking more shots".  In fact, Tatum is taking fewer shots per 100 possessions than he did in the regular season.  Really, the only rotation regulars who have seen their shots attempts go up significantly have been Marcus and Grant.  And, I suspect that's because our guys are taking what the opposing defense gives to them.

My thoughts are that last night (until the last six minutes of the game) was a bit of an aberration for Jaylen.  Yes, he played poorly, shot poorly, and missed FTs.  But overall, I don't see a lot of *statistical* support to say that he's injured, slumping, or sulking.  The missed FTs are weird (3 missed FTAs in Game 6; 3 missed FTAs in Game 7; 4 missed FTAs in Game 1), and his production through 3.5 quarters last night was poor, but overall he's the same old JB.

Anybody disagree?

[ozgod]

It's hard to point to any specific data for me, but it's more of an eye test thing where sometimes he just seems to drift and be disengaged. It was a lot worse earlier in his career where he would make bonehead decisions and get yelled at by his teammates for doing stupid things, like not switching when he's supposed to, or overhelping when he's not supposed to. These days it doesn't happen all that often but after re-watching the game the first half in particular was a good example of how he sometimes struggles to get himself into the game. But he wasn't the only culprit by far. And it's easy to overreact - the team really lost this in a disastrous first half of the third quarter where they weren't able to respond to Miami punching them in the mouth. Because he and JT are our two guns, we expect them to show leadership in those moments and that's probably where some of the criticism is coming from.

I don't think there's anything wrong with him per se. Certainly not physically. I think he just had one of his off games and woke up to it a little too late.

[LilRip]

Nothing’s wrong with Jaylen. The weakest part of his game are his touch-n-go handles and his IQ. Among our top 7 players, JB is the one opposing teams want to target in action because JB is the most likely to miss a rotation or overhelp (absolutely diff story though if coaches are trying to iso vs JB).

JB’s decision making is also suspect comparative to a guy who you figure should be better. Sure, he’s a dynamite scorer and is best when downhill but I really hate the stretches when we make JB our playmaker. JB’s playmaking is like Smart shooting. Trick or treat.

[Stig]

I think it’s just playoff defensive intensity, plus some fatigue. I expect him to bounce back in G2, he’s the one who won us G2 against Bucks

[Jvalin]

Jaylen is a mediocre ball handler and facilitator, hence he's at his best when playing in the open court. Most playoff games are decided in the half court. Rule of thumb is that the pace of the game slows down come playoff time. To his credit, he has come a long way as a ball handler/facilitator, but he's nowhere near Tatum's level.

[Celtics2021]

Jaylen has been dealing with a leg injury all postseason.  We saw it act up at the end of the Nets series, to the point we were worried he’d have to miss time.  It was mentioned by someone connected with the Celtics after the Nets series that it wasn’t just something that happened in Game 4.  He’s played through it and played a lot of minutes, and been effective.  Just not quite as effective as he otherwise could be.

[seancally]

Jaylen is a mediocre ball handler and facilitator, hence he's at his best when playing in the open court. Most playoff games are decided in the half court. Rule of thumb is that the pace of the game slows down come playoff time. To his credit, he has come a long way as a ball handler/facilitator, but he's nowhere near Tatum's level.

Yeah I think playoff defense is a different beast, and Jaylen doesn’t make most of his hay in the half court.

He is also a bit of feast-or-famine. Eye test indicates that he scores in spurts whereas Tatum scores (typically) consistently throughout the game. JT was also bad in the second half last night.

It means that looking at Jaylen’s numbers can be misleading. He had a decent stat line last night. But if his points came in bulk during Q3 instead of Q4, this is a different game. (Again JT is also to blame there.)

[scaryjerry]

Nothing is wrong with him
He’s a good player who gets either overrated or underrated based on game to game performance

Not willing to make excuses for fatigue or nagging injury…that’s every player right now

[Moranis]

Jaylen is a good not great player.  This type of performance is entirely consistent for a good, but not great player. 

[keevsnick]

I honestly didn't even know this was a thing.

Jaylen been pretty good to me. He's had maybe two bad games, but then again so has Tatum. Everybody throws up a couple stinkers in a playoff run. Even Giannis and Durant. He's also had a couple great ones. He's rebounded well, shot about what you'd expect, been pretty decent passing the ball. Defensively i think he's actually been pretty locked in, the only case where he's struggled on defense is against Giannis but i think that can be forgiven given he's 6'6 going up against a 6'11 guy. I don't remember a bunch of defensive mistakes or something.

I guess you could say "I expected 25 ppg, not 22" but he also spent most of last series guarded by Jrue Holiday and had a nearly 60% TS heading into the last game so its hard to complain too much. He's  been arguably I think the "best second best" player in the playoffs by two way play. So I'm not really sure I get the criticism.

He needs to tighten his dribble, but even then his turnover rate isn't outrageous for a guy at his usage. Honestly take an additional three or four shots a game and I'm pretty happy with his play.

[celticsclay]

I've seen a few posts talking about Jaylen looking disengaged for long periods.  Some have speculated that he's sulking.  Equally likely is that he's being bothered by nagging injuries, fatigue, a slump, or nothing at all.

First, his playoff numbers:

22.3 points, 6.8 rebounds, 3.8 assists, .550 eFG%, 74.2% FT%

... compared to his regular season:

23.6 points, 6.1 rebounds, 3.1 assists, .541 eFG%, 75.8% FT%

That seems pretty consistent.  The only significant drop is scoring on a per minute basis; he's gone from 25.3 points / 36 minutes in the regular season to 21.1 points / 36 in the playoffs.  Still, that's a career high, and he's maintained his efficiency.  (You see similar numbers with his per possession scoring numbers).  The reason for that dip in scoring average doesn't seem to be due to poorer shooting, but rather because he's taking fewer attempts.

What should the lack of attempts be attributed to?  It's not as easy as "Tatum is taking more shots".  In fact, Tatum is taking fewer shots per 100 possessions than he did in the regular season.  Really, the only rotation regulars who have seen their shots attempts go up significantly have been Marcus and Grant.  And, I suspect that's because our guys are taking what the opposing defense gives to them.

My thoughts are that last night (until the last six minutes of the game) was a bit of an aberration for Jaylen.  Yes, he played poorly, shot poorly, and missed FTs.  But overall, I don't see a lot of *statistical* support to say that he's injured, slumping, or sulking.  The missed FTs are weird (3 missed FTAs in Game 6; 3 missed FTAs in Game 7; 4 missed FTAs in Game 1), and his production through 3.5 quarters last night was poor, but overall he's the same old JB.

Anybody disagree?

To me he it has jumped out that his handle has looked much sloppier this playoff run. It hasn't always led to turnovers (believe some said those haven't really increased) but I have been kind gasping a lot with him about to lose it, or just see him have a pass or his dribble swiped out of bounds (which don't count as turnovers but can really disrupt a possession.

[nebist]

To me, it's just his lack of mental consistency. I think he's mostly been fine to good in the playoffs, but he has games where he just doesn't seem "there" for lack of a better word.

Tatum's bad stretches seem more tied to a skill hiccup (shooting poorly for a game, handle gets a little loose against certain types of defenders, etc.) When Jaylen is off, he just seems mentally checked out.

What makes it especially concerning to me, is that Tatum is the one getting the bulk of the defensive attention in terms of best defenders and scheme. Jaylen should be able to feast when the ball swings to him after Tatum has drawn so much defensive attention. Basically, Jaylen has been his good, normal (if somewhat inconsistent) self in the playoffs for the most part. But, we need him to be better and to elevate his game a notch if we want to win a championship.

[nickagneta]

Not sure why so many question him being mentally into the game or question his BBIQ. It's an old trope and I think people are simply projecting onto him. His mental prep and BBIQ are just fine for a player of his caliber.

There are halves where others shoot a ton and Jaylen tries to play within the offense. Last night he took just 7 shots in the first half. Tatum just so happened to take a whole bunch of shots in the half.

The numbers show he is playing just like you would expect JB to play. Efficiency is there. Shooting is there. Defense is there. Actually defense is much better than his regular season defense.

He has had a bad game or two, but in the end, JB still puts up his numbers and comes up huge for long stretches of a game. He has been, without a doubt, the best second banana in these playoffs.

Maybe it's my bias, but Jaylen seems to get held to a different standard than other Celtic players by many on this site. I don't understand why. I find him to be an amazing player that every other fanbase in the league would die to have on their team.

[Who]

It is just the nature of his game. His offense is so reliant on scoring for impact that when he isn't hitting his shots or taking many shots Jaylen moves out onto the periphery of the game.

If you are a better ball-handler or passer, you can still have a big impact on offense while you are not scoring much whether that is due to shots not falling or not getting many shots.

[nyceltsfan]

Jaylen seems to be the worst with this, but I think much of the team is symptomatic to a lack of focus at the free throw line.  It's completely unacceptable.

Last night, I was more confident with Timelord at the line than anyone else on the team.

The Celtics will be playing shorthanded for the foreseeable future and they cannot afford to not cash in easy opportunities.

It's a shame that they put together such a crappy third quarter last night.  The fight was there the rest of the game, but the focus and attention to detail was missing.  Lazy passing and free throw misses are terrible ways to lose a game.  Jaylen was at the head of the class in those categories, but he was not alone.

I think that up until this point, Jaylen was always the 1A to Jayson's 1.  It seems that Jayson has separated himself from Jaylen and other guys have stepped up to be 1As in various games (see Horford and Grant Williams).  I am wondering if Jaylen is losing his way a bit and needs a game in which he is the primary option.  (To be clear, I am not necessarily advocating that approach, but I am trying to diagnose JB and find something that may get him going.)