Is Smart our 5th best defender?

[GreenlyGreeny]

So much of what Smart does just doesn't show up in a standard box score.  People shouldn't give much credence to a bunch of faulty defensive metrics that cant remotely begin to capture his or anyone else's true impact.

Smart drew 46 offensive fouls nobody else on the team had more than Grant's 22, Tatum and Brown combined for 24.

Smart had 206 deflections, the next best was Brown and Tatum tied with 117 each.

Smart finished tied for 4th in the league in loose balls recovered with 75.  This on a team that outside of him didn't create a ton of loose balls.

On top of things like the above Smart orchestrates the best defense in the league.  Without him this defense doesn't exist, everyone else is infinitely more replaceable defensively.

This. I mean, just watch away from the ball when we are defending. Marcus runs this defense. We take a bit hit on defense without him. Probably comparable to the hit we take on offense without JT.

[colincb]

Smart’s not 5th on the team as far as advanced defensive +/- stats:

RAPTOR has Smart as our 4th best defender after AH, DW and TL.
REAL +/- has Smart as our 4th best defender after AH, TL, and JT.
EPM had has Smart as our 2nd best defender after DW.

Smart’s within hailing distance of the others (and GW is not)

1. I think you’d have to throw White out of these stats because his stats are for SAS and BOS. He’s a very good defender though from what I’ve seen of him and his advanced stats on D are consistently good.
2. Smart often draws the toughest assignment.
3. Smart is the most versatile defender.
4. My understanding is that he is the loudest voice when the Cs are on D.

Overall, he’s the defensive leader on the best defensive team in the NBA, so I don’t have a big problem with the DPOY nod. regardless of the advanced stats.

I admit that I am not an expert on how these advanced stats are compiled but if you are looking at an on/off type of stat, wouldn't the performance of the replacement have a much to do with the stat as the performance of the principle?  For example, if Al Horford is replaced by Enes Freedom, that will improve Horford's stat, correct?

Anyway, in this case, the advanced stats provide some good information but I think you really have to watch the games to make any final conclusion on who is a better defender.  And it is always hard to compare a guard to a big so this is always going to be subjective.

It's a reasonably good stat that won't give you a precise answer.  The advance +/- stats try to come up with ways to massage the data to eliminate some of the issues like who a player plays with, who replaces him, etc. In this case, it's clear from these stats that he's not the 5th best defender, not that many people here think he is. It's also clear that GW is not a better defender than Smart. Is Al or White? Who knows, but I'll go with Smart based on the items I listed above and not lose any sleep about it.

[Erik]

The combination of Smart and Timelord makes everyone around them defensively better than they actually are. It’s an illusion. There is a big difference between a person who thinks completely  defensively vs an athletic scorer. Smart is watching everything defensively and making adjustments that most fans have no clue. He’s the only reason that Isaiah Thomas played seriously for an NBA  team. On other teams, he’s not worth the liability that his offense brings. Smart played 2 roles at the same time on defense to cover for him. Every time he got a bad defensive matchups Smart was right there to switch him off it. Adding someone like Timelord just makes him DPOY because he can take those defensive gambles now with the shot blocker as a safety net.

No, not even close… pay close attention to the defense in the next game. Smart does 80% of it.

[trickybilly]

The combination of Smart and Timelord makes everyone around them defensively better than they actually are. It’s an illusion. There is a big difference between a person who thinks completely  defensively vs an athletic scorer. Smart is watching everything defensively and making adjustments that most fans have no clue. He’s the only reason that Isaiah Thomas played seriously for an NBA  team. On other teams, he’s not worth the liability that his offense brings. Smart played 2 roles at the same time on defense to cover for him. Every time he got a bad defensive matchups Smart was right there to switch him off it. Adding someone like Timelord just makes him DPOY because he can take those defensive gambles now with the shot blocker as a safety net.

No, not even close… pay close attention to the defense in the next game. Smart does 80% of it.

This is it.

Great vid here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IWiADg7IiU

[Kiorrik]

The combination of Smart and Timelord makes everyone around them defensively better than they actually are. It’s an illusion. There is a big difference between a person who thinks completely  defensively vs an athletic scorer. Smart is watching everything defensively and making adjustments that most fans have no clue. He’s the only reason that Isaiah Thomas played seriously for an NBA  team. On other teams, he’s not worth the liability that his offense brings. Smart played 2 roles at the same time on defense to cover for him. Every time he got a bad defensive matchups Smart was right there to switch him off it. Adding someone like Timelord just makes him DPOY because he can take those defensive gambles now with the shot blocker as a safety net.

No, not even close… pay close attention to the defense in the next game. Smart does 80% of it.

This is it.

Great vid here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IWiADg7IiU

"Why does he taunt LeBron James with his finals record on the front of his jersey?"

hahahahaha


Fantastic link by the way! TP!

[JohnBoy65]

Interestingly enough Bob Voulgaris was just on the Bill Simmons podcast and asked a similar question. He was pontificating on if Smart was the best defender on this team. He basically said Smart is a really good defensive player, but he finds it hard to believe that he makes as much of an impact as Tatum and Brown defensively due to size.

Something that made so much sense to me: Simmons said that Smart has such a knack for making big plays at such important times like: Diving and getting a ball, taking a charge, saving a ball, etc. Voulgaris said yea I call those 'spotlight plays'. I'd never heard that term before, but thought it was brilliant.

[Kiorrik]

Interestingly enough Bob Voulgaris was just on the Bill Simmons podcast and asked a similar question. He was pontificating on if Smart was the best defender on this team. He basically said Smart is a really good defensive player, but he finds it hard that he makes as much of an impact as Tatum and Brown defensively due to size.

Something that made so much sense to me: Simmons said that Smart has such a knack for making big plays at such important times like: Diving and getting a ball, taking a charge, saving a ball, etc. Voulgaris said yea I call those 'spotlight plays'. I'd never heard that term before, but thought it was brilliant.

I like that. A lot.

[liam]

Interestingly enough Bob Voulgaris was just on the Bill Simmons podcast and asked a similar question. He was pontificating on if Smart was the best defender on this team. He basically said Smart is a really good defensive player, but he finds it hard to believe that he makes as much of an impact as Tatum and Brown defensively due to size.

Something that made so much sense to me: Simmons said that Smart has such a knack for making big plays at such important times like: Diving and getting a ball, taking a charge, saving a ball, etc. Voulgaris said yea I call those 'spotlight plays'. I'd never heard that term before, but thought it was brilliant.

That's what I was getting at. I wasn't trying to dis Smart just highlighting how good The Js and Horford and TIMELORD truly are.

[Roy H.]

One of the defensive stats I like to look at is FG% Differential:  How much worse did a player shoot when guarded by Player X, compared to his average shooting percentage?

Here are Celtics stats:

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense-dash-overall/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612738

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense-dash-overall/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Playoffs&TeamID=1610612738&sort=PCT_PLUSMINUS&dir=-1

For the regular seasons, our top guys ranked:

1.  Timelord -7.1 (led league)
2.  Horford -4.8
3. Tatum -3.1
4.  G. Williams -1.3
5. Smart -0.5
6. Jaylen -0.3
7.  Theis / White +0.8

For the playoffs:

1. Tatum -7.5
2. G. Williams -7.1
3. Smart -3.6
4. White -3.5
5. Horford +1.9
6. Theis +2.6
7.  Jaylen +12.3
8.  Robert Williams +20.2

[Kiorrik]

One of the defensive stats I like to look at is FG% Differential:  How much worse did a player shoot when guarded by Player X, compared to his average shooting percentage?

Here are Celtics stats:

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense-dash-overall/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612738

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense-dash-overall/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Playoffs&TeamID=1610612738&sort=PCT_PLUSMINUS&dir=-1

For the regular seasons, our top guys ranked:

1.  Timelord -7.1 (led league)
2.  Horford -4.8
3. Tatum -3.1
4.  G. Williams -1.3
5. Smart -0.5
6. Jaylen -0.3
7.  Theis / White +0.8

For the playoffs:

1. Tatum -7.5
2. G. Williams -7.1
3. Smart -3.6
4. White -3.5
5. Horford +1.9
6. Theis +2.6
7.  Jaylen +12.3
8.  Robert Williams +20.2

That's a good one - but what if someone's primary skill is to not even let their man get a shot off in the first place?

Or to make passing difficult. Or to disrupt set plays? Or to disrupt inbounds (we're CRAZY good at that as a team btw!!)

Having said that - I do realise you started off with "one of the stats", I just wanted to highlight why that stat can be deceptive