Is it fair to criticize Ben Simmons?

[nickagneta]

He was in an uncomfortable working environment and then suddenly developed mental illness? Yeah, I don’t buy that for a second. I’ve said this before and have experienced it, a toxic work environment can affect you mentally, but it doesn’t cause mental illness.

On a side note, I think it was stupid for him to say that he was planning to play game 4. They should have just listed him as questionable and then it could be decided whether to play or not right before the game. I believe it would have been stupid for him to play after the team went down 0-3. When they lose the series, they wouldn’t be able to tell themselves, “Well we didn’t have Ben. It could have been different.”

He never said he had a mental illness

“I want to be careful here. I don’t want to overstate my understanding of the situation because I’m not in Ben’s shoes. That’s very important for me not to speak for Ben because I can’t relate to what he’s going through,” Nash said ahead of tipoff for Game 4 on Monday. “There is a mental component with everything. I think Ben has addressed that there is a mental component with what he’s going through. But how much and where he’s at with that is not for me to speak about.

Simmons arrived in Philadelphia near the end of the preseason but cited his mental health as the reason his participation in team activities was so limited. The 76ers and Simmons disagreed about the degrees of access to Simmons that the team and its doctors were allotted to diagnose and affirm his mental health.

I guess there can be a quibble in terms of the definition of "mental illness", but mental health concerns that impact somebody's day to day activities would generally fit that term.  He seemingly would meet criteria for a psychiatric diagnosis, in that his mental health struggles are impacting his day to day activities.

I disagree.  Everyone every day has mental health concerns.  Am I happy?  Is this conversation positive or negative?  How will this action or inaction affect my mood?  etc.  As I've pretty consistently said, I don't believe Simmons has a mental illness and never had one.  I think his phrasing was intentionally vague, and I don't believe anyone has attributed the word "illness" to any person associated with Simmons regarding his mental health.  I believe he was incredibly unhappy in his situation in Philadelphia and he just didn't want to work in that environment so for the sake of his mental health he didn't work (which is why I said that him switching cities very easily might allow him to play - and frankly I think the reason he didn't play in Brooklyn was physical).  People in all walks of life make that same decision every day.  It is just that almost none of them have a multi million dollar contract to play a professional sport so it doesn't make news, isn't reported on, etc.

His coach just said that he's still struggling with a "mental component", as well as physical.  It's obviously not just "unhappiness".

Mental health and emotions are two completely different things. TP4U Roy in seeing that while Mo doesn't.

Being unhappy, uncomfortable, frustrated, anxious, etc., over your job and work environment are simply a matter of controlling your emotions and changing the environment to change your emotions

But mental health issues are completely different. Mental health issues/illness force emotions upon individuals and can't be changed simply by changing environment. You need medication, therapy and self awareness to change your behavior, which is much easier said than done when your mental issues may be trying to force you to make decisions that are completely opposite of what decisions you need to make to get healthy.

Simmons issues traveled with him and have since LSU. That to me, in my decades long experience with mental health, to believe Simmons has long term issues and that they only became crippling to Simmons in his mid 20's, which just so happens to be the most common time for long term issues of mental health to show themselves in an open and visible way.

I 100% agree with everything said in paragraph 3. What I don’t recall, is reported issues that Simmons was having since his days at LSU. I don’t recall there being any news of him dealing with any mental health issues in Philadelphia until he started to have issues with Doc and Embiid, demanded a trade and then told the 76ers that he couldn’t be around the team due to him having mental health issues. Other players like Kevin Love and DeMar DeroZan have talked about their struggles with mental health in detail in the past, which is admirable. Simmons on the other hand states that he is dealing with mental health issues immediately following a dispute with his team at that time.

Yeah this is the key part of what some may be just glossing over. The NBA has an extremely powerful union, the 76ers are not going to just refuse to pay Simmons all willy nilly. In fact it was reported around the time that Rich Paul did not understand the CBA and was surprised by much money the 76ers could withhold Ben. I think Morey and Co have a pretty good understanding of the CBA and felt Simmons was particularly egregious. If it turns out Simmons actually did have extreme depression and he reported it to them and they say "nah screw you" no player would ever sign there again.

Also, this was a long time ago and I don't feel like digging it all up, but if you followed the timing of all this stuff it was an extremely straight line between Simmons mentions health and when he is being fined/losing money.

It's extremely common in those that are mentally ill for times of high tension or stress to cause issues that now become beyond the ability of those suffering to  function properly anymore and where it becomes obvious to others that those that suffer have issues.

The public criticism and internal criticism from his equals and those who lead/guide/manage Simmons for "choking" could easily have been the trigger for his illness to affect him to the point he could no longer keep his issues private. That this trigger happened at the time that is most common for that suffer to show their issues for the first time publicly is not a coincidence IMO.

@Goldstar the lack of energy to improve, the lack of mental toughness to compete, the lack of commitment, the desire to not be somewhere where others will be critical of you and his entire way he ended his time at LSU can all be explained by underlying mental health issues not being treated. It falls in line with the same issues we have seen in Philly and Brooklyn only getting worse at each stop.

A worsening of issues, which is happening with Simmons, is what happens with untreated mental health problems. It was explained to me this way: for those with depression issues if the depth of your depression is a #2 during your first depressive episode, left untreated, the following depressive episodes get worse and worse. The 2nd episode depth is a #4, the third a #8, the fourth a #16, and so on. The depth can be exponential rather than linear factor 2. Who knows where Simmons issues are now if his symptoms started in high school or earlier?

[Roy H.]

Are people here familiar with anxiety disorders?  I'm surprised that so many are saying "I'm not buying it".

I have an anxiety disorder.  There's a difference between day to day stress / anxiousness and a mental health diagnoses.  I've always been a high achiever.  I didn't really have a "panic attack" until college, and that was a one time thing.  But, my mother died when I was in my early 20s, and after a brief period of what was probably depression, I developed more debilitating anxiety.  An inability to control my emotions -- particularly anger -- and a feeling of overwhelm in situations that would be pretty normal to most people.  Mix that with some alcohol abuse, and I had some struggles in my personal relationships. 

Nobody really knew what I was going through, even the people who would see some instability from me.  But, it was messing with my life.  I'd avoid emails, blow off deadlines, etc.  Things that very much were "not me".  And then, long story short, I tried some medication and my life went back mostly to normal.  I'm lucky for that, because it allows me to able to enjoy a career, a family, etc.  But, there are moments when I still need to isolate myself. 

But, not everybody's anxiety -- or whatever they're struggling with -- can be treated successfully with meds.  Sometimes it takes therapy.  Sometimes the treatment takes years.  Sometimes people are in denial.

So, for Ben Simmons the human being, I expect that he's dealing with some real stuff, and I'm somewhat sympathetic to that.

But at the same time, when you're in the spotlight, and when you accept $160 million, and when endorsing products, I think it's fair to criticize, because all of those things are undermining your mental health. 

[nickagneta]

As I said elsewhere, I think Simmons has mental health issues because his availability traveled from Philly to Brooklyn, as I predicted it would. [\b]Deep mental issues can cripple your ability to be able to perform and/or even be available to do just about anything.

He is also using an undetectable issue like a sore back as reasoning for not returning quick enough. This helps him hide his mental struggles using his back as an excuse to not play rather than the mental health issues.

Looking back, seeing him not be able to reach his full potential, never getting better at all, moving on by "quitting" on his teams and not finishing what he started, this can all be effects created by not addressing his mental health earlier.

So, is it fair to criticize him? Sure, he is a public figure and he could have handled things much better, mental health issues or not. If his mental health has been bad going back to high school or college, he should have gotten help back then. You make poor decisions when in bad mental health and we don't know just how bad his issues are. His decisions over the last 10 months have been terrible, which would leave me to believe his issues run deep.

So if he suffers, I feel for him. However, if doesn't suffer, but is using this as an excuse to get his held money back, I think he is scum.

I don’t think that’s any kind of confirmation that his issues are legit.  If he starts playing again like nothings wrong after he’s traded to Brooklyn that would be something that could affect the ongoing grievances he has against the 76ers

I've gotten the impression that was a factor.  I could be wrong but I've gotten the impression from some articles and interviews that if he played for Brooklyn and didn't exhibit real issues there, it'd have a significantly negative impact on his payment grievances with the Sixers

If he performed immediately in Brooklyn, it would point to him having emotional unhappiness issues not mental health issues.

Mental health travels and everything that was happening in Brooklyn happened in Philly. So you are right slam, if he started to play immediately in Brooklyn, it would hurt his chances of getting his $20 million back from Philly due to him having a mental health/illness issue.

[Roy H.]

I'm skeptical at best of any of his mental health issues.  the timing of this issue coming to light was just too convenient in enabling him to sit out the season.  there may indeed be some physical issues with his back but after sitting out a whole year, and passing a team physical in order to be traded, I find those claims to be dubious as well.

yes, he deserves all the criticism coming his way for being physically and mentally soft as well as making people with real mental issues less believable in their plight.  would love nothing better than to see the league investigate him and possibly suspend him from the league for fraudulent collection of his pay.

Haven't we seen his mental health issues in real time?  Being afraid to shoot to the point where he's passing up dunks is a form of anxiety, right?

I don't equate the two.  his in game issue may be performance anxiety but that's while on the court and could simply be a matter of him paranoid/afraid of performing poorly in a public forum.   I consider a real mental health issue would impact his entire life, not just on the court.  his call for attention with his attire on the sidelines of the games leads me to believe his issues are not life related as much as game related. 

he very well may have a real mental issue that impacts his overall life but I very doubtful that his claims aren't a ploy to get paid while avoiding playing to earn it and suffer the slings and arrows that come with poor performance.

Interesting take.  I guess my response would be, how do you know to what degree his issues are affecting himself outside of his career?  And, the way somebody dresses says almost nothing about their mental health.  I've met all kinds of people who appear confident who are "faking it" and are semi-crippled on the inside.  I'v met many who dress flamboyantly because they're deflecting from something.

[Moranis]

He was in an uncomfortable working environment and then suddenly developed mental illness? Yeah, I don’t buy that for a second. I’ve said this before and have experienced it, a toxic work environment can affect you mentally, but it doesn’t cause mental illness.

On a side note, I think it was stupid for him to say that he was planning to play game 4. They should have just listed him as questionable and then it could be decided whether to play or not right before the game. I believe it would have been stupid for him to play after the team went down 0-3. When they lose the series, they wouldn’t be able to tell themselves, “Well we didn’t have Ben. It could have been different.”

He never said he had a mental illness

“I want to be careful here. I don’t want to overstate my understanding of the situation because I’m not in Ben’s shoes. That’s very important for me not to speak for Ben because I can’t relate to what he’s going through,” Nash said ahead of tipoff for Game 4 on Monday. “There is a mental component with everything. I think Ben has addressed that there is a mental component with what he’s going through. But how much and where he’s at with that is not for me to speak about.

Simmons arrived in Philadelphia near the end of the preseason but cited his mental health as the reason his participation in team activities was so limited. The 76ers and Simmons disagreed about the degrees of access to Simmons that the team and its doctors were allotted to diagnose and affirm his mental health.

I guess there can be a quibble in terms of the definition of "mental illness", but mental health concerns that impact somebody's day to day activities would generally fit that term.  He seemingly would meet criteria for a psychiatric diagnosis, in that his mental health struggles are impacting his day to day activities.

I disagree.  Everyone every day has mental health concerns.  Am I happy?  Is this conversation positive or negative?  How will this action or inaction affect my mood?  etc.  As I've pretty consistently said, I don't believe Simmons has a mental illness and never had one.  I think his phrasing was intentionally vague, and I don't believe anyone has attributed the word "illness" to any person associated with Simmons regarding his mental health.  I believe he was incredibly unhappy in his situation in Philadelphia and he just didn't want to work in that environment so for the sake of his mental health he didn't work (which is why I said that him switching cities very easily might allow him to play - and frankly I think the reason he didn't play in Brooklyn was physical).  People in all walks of life make that same decision every day.  It is just that almost none of them have a multi million dollar contract to play a professional sport so it doesn't make news, isn't reported on, etc.

His coach just said that he's still struggling with a "mental component", as well as physical.  It's obviously not just "unhappiness".

This is absolutely correct Roy. If you just have unhappiness you are not qualified by definition to get paid leave. Paid is called going on disability. Not sure how anyone can argue otherwise.

He wasn't paid though, doesn't that support the position I'm arguing.

[Roy H.]

It's funny, sometimes I lose perspective and assume everybody has lived a life similar to me.  I just assume that everybody has had a lot of exposure to those with mental disorders.  Depression, anxiety, bi-polar, maybe borderline.  People can be highly functioning in many aspects (or times) of their life, while being debilitated in others.

[Moranis]

Are people here familiar with anxiety disorders?  I'm surprised that so many are saying "I'm not buying it".

I have an anxiety disorder.  There's a difference between day to day stress / anxiousness and a mental health diagnoses.  I've always been a high achiever.  I didn't really have a "panic attack" until college, and that was a one time thing.  But, my mother died when I was in my early 20s, and after a brief period of what was probably depression, I developed more debilitating anxiety.  An inability to control my emotions -- particularly anger -- and a feeling of overwhelm in situations that would be pretty normal to most people.  Mix that with some alcohol abuse, and I had some struggles in my personal relationships. 

Nobody really knew what I was going through, even the people who would see some instability from me.  But, it was messing with my life.  I'd avoid emails, blow off deadlines, etc.  Things that very much were "not me".  And then, long story short, I tried some medication and my life went back mostly to normal.  I'm lucky for that, because it allows me to able to enjoy a career, a family, etc.  But, there are moments when I still need to isolate myself. 

But, not everybody's anxiety -- or whatever they're struggling with -- can be treated successfully with meds.  Sometimes it takes therapy.  Sometimes the treatment takes years.  Sometimes people are in denial.

So, for Ben Simmons the human being, I expect that he's dealing with some real stuff, and I'm somewhat sympathetic to that.

But at the same time, when you're in the spotlight, and when you accept $160 million, and when endorsing products, I think it's fair to criticize, because all of those things are undermining your mental health.

And yet the Sixers didn't pay him.  And they know his medical issues, at least better than any of us.  They didn't pay him at all.  The Sixers pretty clearly did not believe that Simmons had a disease or illness.  They pretty clearly believe he was just unhappy and didn't want to be there.  We know this because THEY DID NOT PAY HIM.  When the employer doesn't believe the employee, that speaks volumes.  When the employee never uses the words illness or disease, that speaks volumes.  When the employee doesn't even cite a condition, that speaks volumes. 

When guys like Kevin Love talk about their mental health, they use actual terms like anxiety and depression.  They talk about the struggle and detail what they have to do to cope with it and make it better for themselves.  They don't use vague phrases and references.  They don't bring additional attention on themselves by dressing flamboyantly or putting out strange vague statements.  And they certainly don't have a public dispute over compensation.

Everything out there leads to but one conclusion, Ben Simmons was unhappy and quit not that he has a mental health disease, condition, or illness.

[nickagneta]

Are people here familiar with anxiety disorders?  I'm surprised that so many are saying "I'm not buying it".

I have an anxiety disorder.  There's a difference between day to day stress / anxiousness and a mental health diagnoses.  I've always been a high achiever.  I didn't really have a "panic attack" until college, and that was a one time thing.  But, my mother died when I was in my early 20s, and after a brief period of what was probably depression, I developed more debilitating anxiety.  An inability to control my emotions -- particularly anger -- and a feeling of overwhelm in situations that would be pretty normal to most people.  Mix that with some alcohol abuse, and I had some struggles in my personal relationships. 

Nobody really knew what I was going through, even the people who would see some instability from me.  But, it was messing with my life.  I'd avoid emails, blow off deadlines, etc.  Things that very much were "not me".  And then, long story short, I tried some medication and my life went back mostly to normal.  I'm lucky for that, because it allows me to able to enjoy a career, a family, etc.  But, there are moments when I still need to isolate myself. 

But, not everybody's anxiety -- or whatever they're struggling with -- can be treated successfully with meds.  Sometimes it takes therapy.  Sometimes the treatment takes years.  Sometimes people are in denial.

So, for Ben Simmons the human being, I expect that he's dealing with some real stuff, and I'm somewhat sympathetic to that.

But at the same time, when you're in the spotlight, and when you accept $160 million, and when endorsing products, I think it's fair to criticize, because all of those things are undermining your mental health.

Sorry to hear of your issues Roy. As you know, and as I have stated over the years here, I suffer as well. I was a high achiever. I self medicated. I tried to keep it surpressed until a stressful issue triggered symptoms I couldn't manage anymore in my mid 20's(my 2 year old son being diagnosed with cancer).

So, yeah, I don't understand people being so quick to dismiss Simmons claims, but then again, I like you, understand at a very personal level that most that don't suffer just don't and in some cases, won't ever understand.

Mental illness has a stigma it needs to overcome for all to properly understand and be empathic towards those that suffer. In a couple cases in this thread, that stigma has shown through. The only way to overcome that stigma is education. The world is starting to educate itself about mental illness, but it still has a long way to go.

[nickagneta]

Are people here familiar with anxiety disorders?  I'm surprised that so many are saying "I'm not buying it".

I have an anxiety disorder.  There's a difference between day to day stress / anxiousness and a mental health diagnoses.  I've always been a high achiever.  I didn't really have a "panic attack" until college, and that was a one time thing.  But, my mother died when I was in my early 20s, and after a brief period of what was probably depression, I developed more debilitating anxiety.  An inability to control my emotions -- particularly anger -- and a feeling of overwhelm in situations that would be pretty normal to most people.  Mix that with some alcohol abuse, and I had some struggles in my personal relationships. 

Nobody really knew what I was going through, even the people who would see some instability from me.  But, it was messing with my life.  I'd avoid emails, blow off deadlines, etc.  Things that very much were "not me".  And then, long story short, I tried some medication and my life went back mostly to normal.  I'm lucky for that, because it allows me to able to enjoy a career, a family, etc.  But, there are moments when I still need to isolate myself. 

But, not everybody's anxiety -- or whatever they're struggling with -- can be treated successfully with meds.  Sometimes it takes therapy.  Sometimes the treatment takes years.  Sometimes people are in denial.

So, for Ben Simmons the human being, I expect that he's dealing with some real stuff, and I'm somewhat sympathetic to that.

But at the same time, when you're in the spotlight, and when you accept $160 million, and when endorsing products, I think it's fair to criticize, because all of those things are undermining your mental health.

And yet the Sixers didn't pay him.  And they know his medical issues, at least better than any of us.  They didn't pay him at all.  The Sixers pretty clearly did not believe that Simmons had a disease or illness.  They pretty clearly believe he was just unhappy and didn't want to be there.  We know this because THEY DID NOT PAY HIM.  When the employer doesn't believe the employee, that speaks volumes.  When the employee never uses the words illness or disease, that speaks volumes.  When the employee doesn't even cite a condition, that speaks volumes. 

When guys like Kevin Love talk about their mental health, they use actual terms like anxiety and depression.  They talk about the struggle and detail what they have to do to cope with it and make it better for themselves.  They don't use vague phrases and references.  They don't bring additional attention on themselves by dressing flamboyantly or putting out strange vague statements.  And they certainly don't have a public dispute over compensation.

Everything out there leads to but one conclusion, Ben Simmons was unhappy and quit not that he has a mental health disease, condition, or illness.

There is so much wrong with this post, I don't want to address it all, so will just say your last sentence is completely wrong and if you had even a small amount of education on mental health issues you would know that.

[Moranis]

Are people here familiar with anxiety disorders?  I'm surprised that so many are saying "I'm not buying it".

I have an anxiety disorder.  There's a difference between day to day stress / anxiousness and a mental health diagnoses.  I've always been a high achiever.  I didn't really have a "panic attack" until college, and that was a one time thing.  But, my mother died when I was in my early 20s, and after a brief period of what was probably depression, I developed more debilitating anxiety.  An inability to control my emotions -- particularly anger -- and a feeling of overwhelm in situations that would be pretty normal to most people.  Mix that with some alcohol abuse, and I had some struggles in my personal relationships. 

Nobody really knew what I was going through, even the people who would see some instability from me.  But, it was messing with my life.  I'd avoid emails, blow off deadlines, etc.  Things that very much were "not me".  And then, long story short, I tried some medication and my life went back mostly to normal.  I'm lucky for that, because it allows me to able to enjoy a career, a family, etc.  But, there are moments when I still need to isolate myself. 

But, not everybody's anxiety -- or whatever they're struggling with -- can be treated successfully with meds.  Sometimes it takes therapy.  Sometimes the treatment takes years.  Sometimes people are in denial.

So, for Ben Simmons the human being, I expect that he's dealing with some real stuff, and I'm somewhat sympathetic to that.

But at the same time, when you're in the spotlight, and when you accept $160 million, and when endorsing products, I think it's fair to criticize, because all of those things are undermining your mental health.

And yet the Sixers didn't pay him.  And they know his medical issues, at least better than any of us.  They didn't pay him at all.  The Sixers pretty clearly did not believe that Simmons had a disease or illness.  They pretty clearly believe he was just unhappy and didn't want to be there.  We know this because THEY DID NOT PAY HIM.  When the employer doesn't believe the employee, that speaks volumes.  When the employee never uses the words illness or disease, that speaks volumes.  When the employee doesn't even cite a condition, that speaks volumes. 

When guys like Kevin Love talk about their mental health, they use actual terms like anxiety and depression.  They talk about the struggle and detail what they have to do to cope with it and make it better for themselves.  They don't use vague phrases and references.  They don't bring additional attention on themselves by dressing flamboyantly or putting out strange vague statements.  And they certainly don't have a public dispute over compensation.

Everything out there leads to but one conclusion, Ben Simmons was unhappy and quit not that he has a mental health disease, condition, or illness.

There is so much wrong with this post, I don't want to address it all, so will just say your last sentence is completely wrong and if you had even a small amount of education on mental health issues you would know that.

I do.  I'm just not projecting my own personal things onto Simmons and am looking at the known facts objectively.  Simmons statements and the actions of the teams and people around him, do not lead to the conclusion that Ben Simmons has a mental illness, disease, or condition. 

[nickagneta]

Are people here familiar with anxiety disorders?  I'm surprised that so many are saying "I'm not buying it".

I have an anxiety disorder.  There's a difference between day to day stress / anxiousness and a mental health diagnoses.  I've always been a high achiever.  I didn't really have a "panic attack" until college, and that was a one time thing.  But, my mother died when I was in my early 20s, and after a brief period of what was probably depression, I developed more debilitating anxiety.  An inability to control my emotions -- particularly anger -- and a feeling of overwhelm in situations that would be pretty normal to most people.  Mix that with some alcohol abuse, and I had some struggles in my personal relationships. 

Nobody really knew what I was going through, even the people who would see some instability from me.  But, it was messing with my life.  I'd avoid emails, blow off deadlines, etc.  Things that very much were "not me".  And then, long story short, I tried some medication and my life went back mostly to normal.  I'm lucky for that, because it allows me to able to enjoy a career, a family, etc.  But, there are moments when I still need to isolate myself. 

But, not everybody's anxiety -- or whatever they're struggling with -- can be treated successfully with meds.  Sometimes it takes therapy.  Sometimes the treatment takes years.  Sometimes people are in denial.

So, for Ben Simmons the human being, I expect that he's dealing with some real stuff, and I'm somewhat sympathetic to that.

But at the same time, when you're in the spotlight, and when you accept $160 million, and when endorsing products, I think it's fair to criticize, because all of those things are undermining your mental health.

And yet the Sixers didn't pay him.  And they know his medical issues, at least better than any of us.  They didn't pay him at all.  The Sixers pretty clearly did not believe that Simmons had a disease or illness.  They pretty clearly believe he was just unhappy and didn't want to be there.  We know this because THEY DID NOT PAY HIM.  When the employer doesn't believe the employee, that speaks volumes.  When the employee never uses the words illness or disease, that speaks volumes.  When the employee doesn't even cite a condition, that speaks volumes. 

When guys like Kevin Love talk about their mental health, they use actual terms like anxiety and depression.  They talk about the struggle and detail what they have to do to cope with it and make it better for themselves.  They don't use vague phrases and references.  They don't bring additional attention on themselves by dressing flamboyantly or putting out strange vague statements.  And they certainly don't have a public dispute over compensation.

Everything out there leads to but one conclusion, Ben Simmons was unhappy and quit not that he has a mental health disease, condition, or illness.

There is so much wrong with this post, I don't want to address it all, so will just say your last sentence is completely wrong and if you had even a small amount of education on mental health issues you would know that.

I do.  I'm just not projecting my own personal things onto Simmons and am looking at the known facts objectively.  Simmons statements and the actions of the teams and people around him, do not lead to the conclusion that Ben Simmons has a mental illness, disease, or condition.

Not projecting at all, just seeing the patterns and behavior you just aren't seeing or understanding. I am also believing what Simmons says publicly because he behavior makes sense with his claims and not entirely believing what Philly is claiming, like you are, because it's the right things to say to save $20 million

[celticsclay]

He was in an uncomfortable working environment and then suddenly developed mental illness? Yeah, I don’t buy that for a second. I’ve said this before and have experienced it, a toxic work environment can affect you mentally, but it doesn’t cause mental illness.

On a side note, I think it was stupid for him to say that he was planning to play game 4. They should have just listed him as questionable and then it could be decided whether to play or not right before the game. I believe it would have been stupid for him to play after the team went down 0-3. When they lose the series, they wouldn’t be able to tell themselves, “Well we didn’t have Ben. It could have been different.”

He never said he had a mental illness

“I want to be careful here. I don’t want to overstate my understanding of the situation because I’m not in Ben’s shoes. That’s very important for me not to speak for Ben because I can’t relate to what he’s going through,” Nash said ahead of tipoff for Game 4 on Monday. “There is a mental component with everything. I think Ben has addressed that there is a mental component with what he’s going through. But how much and where he’s at with that is not for me to speak about.

Simmons arrived in Philadelphia near the end of the preseason but cited his mental health as the reason his participation in team activities was so limited. The 76ers and Simmons disagreed about the degrees of access to Simmons that the team and its doctors were allotted to diagnose and affirm his mental health.

I guess there can be a quibble in terms of the definition of "mental illness", but mental health concerns that impact somebody's day to day activities would generally fit that term.  He seemingly would meet criteria for a psychiatric diagnosis, in that his mental health struggles are impacting his day to day activities.

I disagree.  Everyone every day has mental health concerns.  Am I happy?  Is this conversation positive or negative?  How will this action or inaction affect my mood?  etc.  As I've pretty consistently said, I don't believe Simmons has a mental illness and never had one.  I think his phrasing was intentionally vague, and I don't believe anyone has attributed the word "illness" to any person associated with Simmons regarding his mental health.  I believe he was incredibly unhappy in his situation in Philadelphia and he just didn't want to work in that environment so for the sake of his mental health he didn't work (which is why I said that him switching cities very easily might allow him to play - and frankly I think the reason he didn't play in Brooklyn was physical).  People in all walks of life make that same decision every day.  It is just that almost none of them have a multi million dollar contract to play a professional sport so it doesn't make news, isn't reported on, etc.

His coach just said that he's still struggling with a "mental component", as well as physical.  It's obviously not just "unhappiness".

This is absolutely correct Roy. If you just have unhappiness you are not qualified by definition to get paid leave. Paid is called going on disability. Not sure how anyone can argue otherwise.

He wasn't paid though, doesn't that support the position I'm arguing.

Well, if he just accepted that outcome it would. But is going to court because he thinks he is owed the money. I do agree with your point that if the 76ers thought he had a mental illness that warranted disability they would have paid. But Simmons apparently disagrees.

[Roy H.]

Are people here familiar with anxiety disorders?  I'm surprised that so many are saying "I'm not buying it".

I have an anxiety disorder.  There's a difference between day to day stress / anxiousness and a mental health diagnoses.  I've always been a high achiever.  I didn't really have a "panic attack" until college, and that was a one time thing.  But, my mother died when I was in my early 20s, and after a brief period of what was probably depression, I developed more debilitating anxiety.  An inability to control my emotions -- particularly anger -- and a feeling of overwhelm in situations that would be pretty normal to most people.  Mix that with some alcohol abuse, and I had some struggles in my personal relationships. 

Nobody really knew what I was going through, even the people who would see some instability from me.  But, it was messing with my life.  I'd avoid emails, blow off deadlines, etc.  Things that very much were "not me".  And then, long story short, I tried some medication and my life went back mostly to normal.  I'm lucky for that, because it allows me to able to enjoy a career, a family, etc.  But, there are moments when I still need to isolate myself. 

But, not everybody's anxiety -- or whatever they're struggling with -- can be treated successfully with meds.  Sometimes it takes therapy.  Sometimes the treatment takes years.  Sometimes people are in denial.

So, for Ben Simmons the human being, I expect that he's dealing with some real stuff, and I'm somewhat sympathetic to that.

But at the same time, when you're in the spotlight, and when you accept $160 million, and when endorsing products, I think it's fair to criticize, because all of those things are undermining your mental health.

And yet the Sixers didn't pay him.  And they know his medical issues, at least better than any of us.  They didn't pay him at all.  The Sixers pretty clearly did not believe that Simmons had a disease or illness.  They pretty clearly believe he was just unhappy and didn't want to be there.  We know this because THEY DID NOT PAY HIM.  When the employer doesn't believe the employee, that speaks volumes.  When the employee never uses the words illness or disease, that speaks volumes.  When the employee doesn't even cite a condition, that speaks volumes. 

When guys like Kevin Love talk about their mental health, they use actual terms like anxiety and depression.  They talk about the struggle and detail what they have to do to cope with it and make it better for themselves.  They don't use vague phrases and references.  They don't bring additional attention on themselves by dressing flamboyantly or putting out strange vague statements.  And they certainly don't have a public dispute over compensation.

Everything out there leads to but one conclusion, Ben Simmons was unhappy and quit not that he has a mental health disease, condition, or illness.

There is so much wrong with this post, I don't want to address it all, so will just say your last sentence is completely wrong and if you had even a small amount of education on mental health issues you would know that.

I do.  I'm just not projecting my own personal things onto Simmons and am looking at the known facts objectively.  Simmons statements and the actions of the teams and people around him, do not lead to the conclusion that Ben Simmons has a mental illness, disease, or condition.

Other than the statements  of Simmons, his management and his coach, you mean?  And his actions of avoidance, first of shooting and then participating at all?

Odd take.

[celticsclay]

Are people here familiar with anxiety disorders?  I'm surprised that so many are saying "I'm not buying it".

I have an anxiety disorder.  There's a difference between day to day stress / anxiousness and a mental health diagnoses.  I've always been a high achiever.  I didn't really have a "panic attack" until college, and that was a one time thing.  But, my mother died when I was in my early 20s, and after a brief period of what was probably depression, I developed more debilitating anxiety.  An inability to control my emotions -- particularly anger -- and a feeling of overwhelm in situations that would be pretty normal to most people.  Mix that with some alcohol abuse, and I had some struggles in my personal relationships. 

Nobody really knew what I was going through, even the people who would see some instability from me.  But, it was messing with my life.  I'd avoid emails, blow off deadlines, etc.  Things that very much were "not me".  And then, long story short, I tried some medication and my life went back mostly to normal.  I'm lucky for that, because it allows me to able to enjoy a career, a family, etc.  But, there are moments when I still need to isolate myself. 

But, not everybody's anxiety -- or whatever they're struggling with -- can be treated successfully with meds.  Sometimes it takes therapy.  Sometimes the treatment takes years.  Sometimes people are in denial.

So, for Ben Simmons the human being, I expect that he's dealing with some real stuff, and I'm somewhat sympathetic to that.

But at the same time, when you're in the spotlight, and when you accept $160 million, and when endorsing products, I think it's fair to criticize, because all of those things are undermining your mental health.

Roy I have had a very similar experience to this myself, even including my mom dying unexpectedly (from suicide). My dad later married a crazy woman off the internet and then passed so it was quite the run I put together.

In general, because of this, I am very sympathetic to mental health and feel like I have a decent understanding of mental illness. This is probably the only time in my life I will take the kind of position I have with respect to Ben. I feel icky even expressing it, but there are a lot of actions and timing of things that make it very hard to give the benefit of the doubt all the way with him. I don't really want to argue with people about it further cause its probably just not the best forum topic to explain what you really think.

[nickagneta]

Are people here familiar with anxiety disorders?  I'm surprised that so many are saying "I'm not buying it".

I have an anxiety disorder.  There's a difference between day to day stress / anxiousness and a mental health diagnoses.  I've always been a high achiever.  I didn't really have a "panic attack" until college, and that was a one time thing.  But, my mother died when I was in my early 20s, and after a brief period of what was probably depression, I developed more debilitating anxiety.  An inability to control my emotions -- particularly anger -- and a feeling of overwhelm in situations that would be pretty normal to most people.  Mix that with some alcohol abuse, and I had some struggles in my personal relationships. 

Nobody really knew what I was going through, even the people who would see some instability from me.  But, it was messing with my life.  I'd avoid emails, blow off deadlines, etc.  Things that very much were "not me".  And then, long story short, I tried some medication and my life went back mostly to normal.  I'm lucky for that, because it allows me to able to enjoy a career, a family, etc.  But, there are moments when I still need to isolate myself. 

But, not everybody's anxiety -- or whatever they're struggling with -- can be treated successfully with meds.  Sometimes it takes therapy.  Sometimes the treatment takes years.  Sometimes people are in denial.

So, for Ben Simmons the human being, I expect that he's dealing with some real stuff, and I'm somewhat sympathetic to that.

But at the same time, when you're in the spotlight, and when you accept $160 million, and when endorsing products, I think it's fair to criticize, because all of those things are undermining your mental health.

And yet the Sixers didn't pay him.  And they know his medical issues, at least better than any of us.  They didn't pay him at all.  The Sixers pretty clearly did not believe that Simmons had a disease or illness.  They pretty clearly believe he was just unhappy and didn't want to be there.  We know this because THEY DID NOT PAY HIM.  When the employer doesn't believe the employee, that speaks volumes.  When the employee never uses the words illness or disease, that speaks volumes.  When the employee doesn't even cite a condition, that speaks volumes. 

When guys like Kevin Love talk about their mental health, they use actual terms like anxiety and depression.  They talk about the struggle and detail what they have to do to cope with it and make it better for themselves.  They don't use vague phrases and references.  They don't bring additional attention on themselves by dressing flamboyantly or putting out strange vague statements.  And they certainly don't have a public dispute over compensation.

Everything out there leads to but one conclusion, Ben Simmons was unhappy and quit not that he has a mental health disease, condition, or illness.

There is so much wrong with this post, I don't want to address it all, so will just say your last sentence is completely wrong and if you had even a small amount of education on mental health issues you would know that.

I do.  I'm just not projecting my own personal things onto Simmons and am looking at the known facts objectively.  Simmons statements and the actions of the teams and people around him, do not lead to the conclusion that Ben Simmons has a mental illness, disease, or condition.

Other than the statements  of Simmons, his management and his coach, you mean?  And his actions of avoidance, first of shooting and then participating at all?

Odd take.

Not to mention the fact people with mental illnesses don't usually go public with their diagnosis. If Simmons is schizophrenic or has a personality disorder, there is little chance he goes public with those diagnosis' as they are the diagnosis' most commonly associated with people being labeled "crazy".