Kirk Goldberry's Latest: Elite NBA Defenders (new metrics)

[Sophomore]

Think about it. Jayson Tatum and Horford would already be top defenders on other teams. But on this team they aren't even nearly the best.

What Al does is different than what Rob does, which makes them a little hard to compare; kind of apples and oranges. But I’d say Al is about as valuable as Rob. The reason Rob can fly around is that Al takes the opposing 5. He can handle the weight and strength, but he’s also able to guard opposing guards out on the perimeter. Which is incredible. You really can’t pick on Al by switching him onto guards - and if anything, Al is better than Rob on the perimeter, switched onto a guard. Amazing really, one of the best I’ve seen if not the best. While Al’s blocks happen lower than Rob’s, he collects a lot of them and 2s and 3s who challenge him usually regret it. I’m not a huge analytics guy, but Forsberg says Al’s actually make a case for Al as our best defender. Not sure I can go that far, but also can’t see him way behind Rob. 

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Just give the award to the Celtics starting 5.

[Hoopvortex]

Think about it. Jayson Tatum and Horford would already be top defenders on other teams. But on this team they aren't even nearly the best.

What Al does is different than what Rob does, which makes them a little hard to compare; kind of apples and oranges. But I’d say Al is about as valuable as Rob. The reason Rob can fly around is that Al takes the opposing 5. He can handle the weight and strength, but he’s also able to guard opposing guards out on the perimeter. Which is incredible. You really can’t pick on Al by switching him onto guards - and if anything, Al is better than Rob on the perimeter, switched onto a guard. Amazing really, one of the best I’ve seen if not the best. While Al’s blocks happen lower than Rob’s, he collects a lot of them and 2s and 3s who challenge him usually regret it. I’m not a huge analytics guy, but Forsberg says Al’s actually make a case for Al as our best defender. Not sure I can go that far, but also can’t see him way behind Rob.

While I cannot agree that "Al is better than Rob on the perimeter" ("perimeter" means a lot of things, including how quickly you can close out to a shooter, for example - and only one example - which the Timelord is better at)... it is good to see someone appreciate what Horford brings to the team defense.

An underrated contribution that he makes is that he is a kind of middle linebacker in the team defense, calling out the plays and picks and switches and scrams as they unfold. You can't hear them talking on D when you're watching television, but that communication is critical to keeping everyone on a string and acting in concert. Grant Williams, btw, is also brilliant at this.

I'll just add that I'm so gratified that Boston is so good at defense this year; it's what I hope for and expect from any Celtics team. It's on defense that a team becomes a team, with everyone working together.

Don Nelson said, "We ran on offense and worked like hell on defense." - those were Red's two lodestars, and their value for winning has not diminished in our modern era.

I really do think upping the tempo would add another level of unstoppability. Tatum and Brown are just brilliant in the early offense, and a push-it-up ballhandler like Derrick White is exactly the player to get ahead of the opposition's defense before it organizes. I believe that this is the next big-picture step toward the Celtics' championship hopes.

[Hoopvortex]

Just give the award to the Celtics starting 5.

How about top 8 or even 9?

The on-ball heroics of Payton Pritchard in the last game are an encouraging sign for his place in the rotation - and for Boston's playoff depth.

[Hoopvortex]

Passing this along for folks who haven't see it. Not sure what rules are about what can be cut and pasted, but will add the twe Celtics: Smart and Williams

Marcus Smart

The Boston Celtics have the top-ranked defense in the league this season in part because Smart is one of the most skilled and versatile perimeter defenders in the game. Coach Ime Udoka's defensive schemes rely heavily on switches, a strategy made possible in part by Smart's extensive defensive portfolio. Even though he's just 6-foot-3, Smart's unique blend of strength, will and skill enables him to go toe-to-toe with almost any offensive player in the league.

The NBA has developed complex algorithms to estimate who is guarding whom at any given moment of every single possession of every single game, which helps us appreciate players like Smart in ways that go far beyond his 1.7 steals per game.

For example, back on March 3 when the Celtics beat the Memphis Grizzlies despite not having Jaylen Brown, Smart defended Ja Morant on 27 partial possessions. In those trips down the floor, Morant -- who ranks seventh in the NBA averaging 27.6 points -- managed to take just three shots.

No guard in the league wants to see Smart marking him, but what makes Smart so special is that he's effective against bigger players too. He switches defensive assignments on 30.2 possessions per game, which ranks fourth among all guards in the league. Among guards, Smart is 19th in total time guarding forwards and 16th in total time guarding centers.

Only two players in the league have switched more often than Smart, and according to NBA numbers, Boston allows just 1.05 points per possession when Smart is involved in a switch, the best such number for any guard in the league.

Robert Williams III

If there's one player who is as effective as Jackson at forcing missed shots it's Boston's springy center. Williams' emergence as a truly elite defender has propelled the Celtics into the stratosphere, and there's one stat that proves his status as an elite defender: 164 players have defended 500 shots as the closest defender this season; Williams is the only one who has held opponents to under 40% shooting.

That figure is especially remarkable considering Williams defends the paint -- the spot on the court where overall field goal percentage is typically highest. Williams, however, has allowed the second-lowest field goal percentage at the rim since Jan. 1 (min. 100 FGA defended).

But make no mistake, Williams is more than just a rim protector. His emergence as one of the most versatile bigs in the league has enabled Ime Udoka to devise the team's switch-everything defensive philosophy. Williams is one of two players in the NBA to match up on defense at least 800 times each against guards, forwards and centers (P.J. Washington is the other one).

The Time Lord can hold his own against virtually any offensive player in the NBA, which is one of the biggest reasons the Celtics have gone from mediocre to legitimate championship contenders.

Others listed:

Fred VanVleet
Matisse Thybulle
Patrick Beverley
Mikal Bridges
Giannis
Herbert Jones
Jaren Jackson Jr.
Rudy Gobert
Bam Adebayo

Thanks for this thread, and also for @Celtics2021 for the Seth Partnow quotation. TP's to both of you.

[Big333223]

Seth Partnow also had a piece about defensive players/DPOY voting yesterday at the Athletic.  He had Smart and Williams both in his top 6, and here are some relevant passages:

Boston has the NBA’s best defense, though which player should get sufficient credit to be recognized as the best defender in the league this year? Six of the Celtics’ top seven (Smart, Williams, White, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Al Horford) players rate in the 84th percentile or higher in dEPM. Smart’s candidacy is hurt by the fact that it’s been so long since a guard won the award that I’m not sure we would recognize what DPOY-level guard play even looked like.

…

We’ve been so accustomed to DPOY being a big-man award that the increased value of a point guard who can not only survive but prosper in a defense in which he is called upon to guard much larger players with regularity is overlooked. If Adebayo had played just a few more games, I would probably lean toward him given the stark contrast in Miami’s performance with and without him on the floor. However, Smart will end up playing around 500 more minutes. Considering how much he unlocks and excels in Boston’s scheme, and maybe because he bullied me on Twitter, my pick as of today would be the Boston guard.

I'm heartened by how much I'm seeing the "maybe we should stop just giving the award to big men" conversation happening. It's becoming part of the narrative that could wind up helping Smart in the end because people love to vote for the kind of thing that makes them feel like they're smarter than everyone else/bucking the trend.

Smart's one of my favorite players all time. I hope he wins it.

[Hoopvortex]

Seth Partnow also had a piece about defensive players/DPOY voting yesterday at the Athletic.  He had Smart and Williams both in his top 6, and here are some relevant passages:

Boston has the NBA’s best defense, though which player should get sufficient credit to be recognized as the best defender in the league this year? Six of the Celtics’ top seven (Smart, Williams, White, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Al Horford) players rate in the 84th percentile or higher in dEPM. Smart’s candidacy is hurt by the fact that it’s been so long since a guard won the award that I’m not sure we would recognize what DPOY-level guard play even looked like.

…

We’ve been so accustomed to DPOY being a big-man award that the increased value of a point guard who can not only survive but prosper in a defense in which he is called upon to guard much larger players with regularity is overlooked. If Adebayo had played just a few more games, I would probably lean toward him given the stark contrast in Miami’s performance with and without him on the floor. However, Smart will end up playing around 500 more minutes. Considering how much he unlocks and excels in Boston’s scheme, and maybe because he bullied me on Twitter, my pick as of today would be the Boston guard.

I'm heartened by how much I'm seeing the "maybe we should stop just giving the award to big men" conversation happening. It's becoming part of the narrative that could wind up helping Smart in the end because people love to vote for the kind of thing that makes them feel like they're smarter than everyone else/bucking the trend.

Smart's one of my favorite players all time. I hope he wins it.

How about an annual award for best team defense?

After all, it's a team game.