Okay, I understand why, but .....

[todd_days_41]

D-White has come down to earth and is not better than J-Rich.

I don't think White's done anything but be himself.

First, Celtics fans overrated him, as prone to do in the honeymoon phase, and;

Second, he's further down the totem pole on a better team. His opportunities and numbers are going to lower here.

The notion that he was going to be significantly better than what Richardson produced while here was just plain wishful thinking.

White is a keeper. Young, versatile, and on a long-term market-friendly deal.
Richarson is a good player, but the weaknesses on our team (quick decision making, passing, dribble penetration) aren't his strengths. Therefore he isn't a keeper. That's why I think White is worth the 20th pick in the draft along with Rich.
One is a keeper, one isn't.

Agree, White for Rich/20 is awesome!  But, it wasn't just that, it was White/Romeo/20/Swap!  That's where I think it's an overpay.

agreed.  still think a fair payment was JRich and either the first or Romeo, not both and never mind that ridiculous pick swap.

Don't make the 2022 pick and Langford interchangible. The pick had / has far more value.

[Who]

I would've been fine with the pick swap if the swap wasn't so far off. I have no issue with J-Rich, a 1st and a 2023 pick swap. You can plan for that. It is close enough to make a strong projection on that pick's value.

But you can't project out as far as 2027 or whatever it was. It is too far off in terms of NBA years. It is going to be pure luck whether this turns out to be a successful or unsuccessful trade.

Way too much risk.

[Moranis]

I would've been fine with the pick swap if the swap wasn't so far off. I have no issue with J-Rich, a 1st and a 2023 pick swap. You can plan for that. It is close enough to make a strong projection on that pick's value.

But you can't project out as far as 2027 or whatever it was. It is too far off in terms of NBA years. It is going to be pure luck whether this turns out to be a successful or unsuccessful trade.

Way too much risk.

Or put more protections on it than just #1.  At least make it top 4 protected.  But apparently it was that or no trade and sometimes you just have to pull the trigger or you just end up like Ainge the last 3 years, doing absolutely nothing and not improving the team. 

I had much bigger issue with the team being left with 10 players.  That is just too many holes to fill and a team where an injury to just 1 guy can wreck havoc. 

[todd_days_41]

I would've been fine with the pick swap if the swap wasn't so far off. I have no issue with J-Rich, a 1st and a 2023 pick swap. You can plan for that. It is close enough to make a strong projection on that pick's value.

But you can't project out as far as 2027 or whatever it was. It is too far off in terms of NBA years. It is going to be pure luck whether this turns out to be a successful or unsuccessful trade.

Way too much risk.

Or put more protections on it than just #1.  At least make it top 4 protected.  But apparently it was that or no trade and sometimes you just have to pull the trigger or you just end up like Ainge the last 3 years, doing absolutely nothing and not improving the team. 

I had much bigger issue with the team being left with 10 players.  That is just too many holes to fill and a team where an injury to just 1 guy can wreck havoc.

I think it also tells you where Stevens is going to be in 2028 -- coaching college basketball. I hope it happens much sooner than then.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Serious question: Is the incessant negativity of some fans worse than the unrelenting positivity of others?

For example, judging by the majority of comments after White was acquired, I would've thought the Cs had landed someone of Klay Thompson's caliber.

And Boston's recent run of great defense has undoubtedly been aided by the fact that most of their opponents during that stretch were either bad or missing some key players. It's not like the Cs have been getting most of their wins against healthy Warriors, Suns, Jazz, or Nets teams.

I'm definitely encouraged by what I've seen lately, and having a healthy roster for more than a week undoubtedly helps, and yes, things seem to be setting up for the Cs to have several really good seasons coming right up.

The carpet, however, has been pulled from beneath our feet before—in fact, it's happened several times in recent years (Hayward's ankle, Kyrie's head, Kemba's knee, league-worst covid rate)—so I don't think anyone should be faulted for being wary that the other shoe could drop any day now and upset this fine little apple cart the Cs are currently pushing.

Actually, what would be most surprising to me for the rest of this season, besides a Cs title (!), would be the Cs encountering no major hurdles (injuries, covid, bad habits resurfacing, etc.) the rest of the way.

[nickagneta]

I would've been fine with the pick swap if the swap wasn't so far off. I have no issue with J-Rich, a 1st and a 2023 pick swap. You can plan for that. It is close enough to make a strong projection on that pick's value.

But you can't project out as far as 2027 or whatever it was. It is too far off in terms of NBA years. It is going to be pure luck whether this turns out to be a successful or unsuccessful trade.

Way too much risk.

Or put more protections on it than just #1.  At least make it top 4 protected.  But apparently it was that or no trade and sometimes you just have to pull the trigger or you just end up like Ainge the last 3 years, doing absolutely nothing and not improving the team. 

I had much bigger issue with the team being left with 10 players.  That is just too many holes to fill and a team where an injury to just 1 guy can wreck havoc.

I think it also tells you where Stevens is going to be in 2028 -- coaching college basketball. I hope it happens much sooner than then.

Due to expiring contracts, it's very normal for teams to have 4-5 open roster slots to start the off-season. Happens all the time.

Those open spots appear to be great landing spots for free agents and players traded into TPEs. The team will have it's top 9-10 in place next year, if Stevens doesn't upgrade anyone there in a trade, and be able to add quality making this team deep.

Stevens might not be here in 2028 as having management last 7-8 years isn't normal. But you never know.

[Goldstar88]

I would've been fine with the pick swap if the swap wasn't so far off. I have no issue with J-Rich, a 1st and a 2023 pick swap. You can plan for that. It is close enough to make a strong projection on that pick's value.

But you can't project out as far as 2027 or whatever it was. It is too far off in terms of NBA years. It is going to be pure luck whether this turns out to be a successful or unsuccessful trade.

Way too much risk.

Or put more protections on it than just #1.  At least make it top 4 protected.  But apparently it was that or no trade and sometimes you just have to pull the trigger or you just end up like Ainge the last 3 years, doing absolutely nothing and not improving the team. 

I had much bigger issue with the team being left with 10 players.  That is just too many holes to fill and a team where an injury to just 1 guy can wreck havoc.

Exactly. They traded away their depth and have replaced them with 4 G-league players. That’s not good.

[todd_days_41]

I would've been fine with the pick swap if the swap wasn't so far off. I have no issue with J-Rich, a 1st and a 2023 pick swap. You can plan for that. It is close enough to make a strong projection on that pick's value.

But you can't project out as far as 2027 or whatever it was. It is too far off in terms of NBA years. It is going to be pure luck whether this turns out to be a successful or unsuccessful trade.

Way too much risk.

Or put more protections on it than just #1.  At least make it top 4 protected.  But apparently it was that or no trade and sometimes you just have to pull the trigger or you just end up like Ainge the last 3 years, doing absolutely nothing and not improving the team. 

I had much bigger issue with the team being left with 10 players.  That is just too many holes to fill and a team where an injury to just 1 guy can wreck havoc.

I think it also tells you where Stevens is going to be in 2028 -- coaching college basketball. I hope it happens much sooner than then.

Due to expiring contracts, it's very normal for teams to have 4-5 open roster slots to start the off-season. Happens all the time.

Those open spots appear to be great landing spots for free agents and players traded into TPEs. The team will have it's top 9-10 in place next year, if Stevens doesn't upgrade anyone there in a trade, and be able to add quality making this team deep.

Stevens might not be here in 2028 as having management last 7-8 years isn't normal. But you never know.

I think it's obvious from his moves Stevens doesn't intend to be an executive for long, which frankly has been speculated sine he took the job in the first place. Not to mention.... it's certainly abnormal to have 5 open roster spots (with no laid plans to fill them with reasonable talent) in the middle of the NBA season. Good of him to hand out our potential 1st round pick bench talent on his way back to America's heartland. 

You say:

Those open spots appear to be great landing spots for free agents and players traded into TPEs.

Can you explain this statement, considering the Cs lack of cap flexibility, the luxury tax they've been careful to avoid, and the otherwise lack of assets to attach to TPEs?

Who do you suggest Stevens add?

[todd_days_41]

By the way, Nick, if you want optimism, read this!

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/33348162/how-boston-celtics-vaulted-back-championship-contention-nba-best-defense

Also, if someone smarter than me could post a pic of Goldberry's chart, that'd be great.

[pokeKingCurtis]

I try to be positive, but if the team makes me feel stupid / bad for doing so over an extended period of time (as they did for most of last season and the first half of this season), I'm going to be slow to come back from that.

That said, I always *want* to believe in the team when they're playing well.

So just curious and not really pointing fingers or being confrontational. Want to see what you (and people sharing similar sentiments about the team) think.

I remember saying a few months back when the C's were sucking that we could still add Brad Beal or someone like that in the offseason to add to the Jays (trading Smart and various things, maybe stretching Al? - I'm not familiar enough with the cap) - if Brad Beal wants to come (given his ties to Jayson Tatum).

You laughed it off, I think in large part because we were sucking and there was no way Brad Beal would want to come. That's fair enough.

So now Brad Beal wants to stay in WAS. But what if someone like Zach Lavine or Donovan Mitchell (who has some ties to Jaylen Brown) were to want to come now?

[Moranis]

I would've been fine with the pick swap if the swap wasn't so far off. I have no issue with J-Rich, a 1st and a 2023 pick swap. You can plan for that. It is close enough to make a strong projection on that pick's value.

But you can't project out as far as 2027 or whatever it was. It is too far off in terms of NBA years. It is going to be pure luck whether this turns out to be a successful or unsuccessful trade.

Way too much risk.

Or put more protections on it than just #1.  At least make it top 4 protected.  But apparently it was that or no trade and sometimes you just have to pull the trigger or you just end up like Ainge the last 3 years, doing absolutely nothing and not improving the team. 

I had much bigger issue with the team being left with 10 players.  That is just too many holes to fill and a team where an injury to just 1 guy can wreck havoc.

Exactly. They traded away their depth and have replaced them with 4 G-league players. That’s not good.

The Theis trade didn't make sense to me with all of the other moves.  Even with as bad as Fernando and Freedom have been, I'd rather have them then the garbage and/or open roster spots, never the less Schroder who was a pretty competent back up scorer. 

[ozgod]

By the way, Nick, if you want optimism, read this!

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/33348162/how-boston-celtics-vaulted-back-championship-contention-nba-best-defense

Also, if someone smarter than me could post a pic of Goldberry's chart, that'd be great.

Here you go. If anyone wants to look at the original image they can click on it.

[#1P4P]

By the way, Nick, if you want optimism, read this!

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/33348162/how-boston-celtics-vaulted-back-championship-contention-nba-best-defense

Also, if someone smarter than me could post a pic of Goldberry's chart, that'd be great.

Here you go. If anyone wants to look at the original image they can click on it.

Great to see National media picking up on this and reporting positively on the Cs. I’ve touched on most of the points Goldsberry highlighted throughout the season as far back as the preseason.

That stat about Rob Williams III holding opponents to 37.8% being the best mark and the second best mark in 5 years exemplifies how great he’s been. There’s no stat that measures how many drives he deters by his mere presence (which he does often); he’s a beast and will start to get into the DPOY conversation.

I touted the roster construction and it having no mismatches, the overall elite defensive identity, and Horford’s durability and veteran leadership. It’s great to see everything coming together now. All this team needs now is for Tatum to make the leap (the consistency to perform at an elite level night in, night out) and Udoka accelerating his coaching maturation for this team to be contending for a Championship. It could happen as soon as this season!

[todd_days_41]

By the way, Nick, if you want optimism, read this!

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/33348162/how-boston-celtics-vaulted-back-championship-contention-nba-best-defense

Also, if someone smarter than me could post a pic of Goldberry's chart, that'd be great.

Here you go. If anyone wants to look at the original image they can click on it.

Great to see National media picking up on this and reporting positively on the Cs. I’ve touched on most of the points Goldsberry highlighted throughout the season as far back as the preseason.

That stat about Rob Williams III holding opponents to 37.8% being the best mark and the second best mark in 5 years exemplifies how great he’s been. There’s no stat that measures how many drives he deters by his mere presence (which he does often); he’s a beast and will start to get into the DPOY conversation.

I touted the roster construction and it having no mismatches, the overall elite defensive identity, and Horford’s durability and veteran leadership. It’s great to see everything coming together now. All this team needs now is for Tatum to make the leap (the consistency to perform at an elite level night in, night out) and Udoka accelerating his coaching maturation for this team to be contending for a Championship. It could happen as soon as this season!

LOL at you taking credit for Goldsberry's report

[Cman]

In Boston sports, the expectation is to win championships. At times there will be praise and other instances fans will be critical. That is not something unique to this site and I don’t really view it as negativity. Season has been up and down and the fanbase is going to question/critique the players, coach and GM which in turn provides discussion. I think the site would be pretty boring without it.

I think it is a little more than that. The expectation is for teams to win championships *coupled* with the expectation that teams will ultimately fail.

This is the result of the Red Sox struggling for so many years. For the Patriots being terrible for so long. For the Celtics never really matching up to the success of the early years, etc. The 2000s were different, obviously, with the Pats and Red Sox, but the old negative vibe never really left. And frankly, I don't mind it. I like that we all have a chip on our shoulder.