I Do Not like Philly's Roster

[celticsclay]

They traded 2 people in their rotation, including a starter, and because Harden hasn't played they didn't replace them.  Take a starter and a rotation player off of any team and don't replace them and it will affect you.  When Harden plays, he will make a lot of this better.  He just changes the whole dynamic of the team because of his not just his scoring, but with his play making as well.  They are far more likely to win the championship this year than Boston is given the talent they have at the top of the roster.

How can you say this with a straight face when we didn't have our third best player in Williams and missed our 4th best player (smart) the majority of the game. Doesn't make a lot of sense. That is a lot more loss than curry and drummond.

Do you really think if they played that game with the same exact people again Philly would play that bad?  (not saying the Celtics wouldn't beat them, but it would be closer)

Would we beat them 50? No, obviously not, that almost never happens especially when a quarter and a half are basically scrubs on scrubs.. But with the same players, yes, we would stomp them. They made the game plan very easy for us because guys like Thybulle (28%) and Forkmaz (29%) shake milton (30%) are shooting so poorly, they basically gave us a free double on Embid every time he touched the ball. Plus Forkmaz and Milton are such bad players they are basically playing 4 on 5 half the time he was on the floor. You can't throw out really terrible players against good teams and expect to win many nights. Obviously Harden pushes one of those guys out of the rotation, but this why they need buy out guys bad.

[Moranis]

They traded 2 people in their rotation, including a starter, and because Harden hasn't played they didn't replace them.  Take a starter and a rotation player off of any team and don't replace them and it will affect you.  When Harden plays, he will make a lot of this better.  He just changes the whole dynamic of the team because of his not just his scoring, but with his play making as well.  They are far more likely to win the championship this year than Boston is given the talent they have at the top of the roster.

Two starters were taken off our team last night and we beat them by 48. Or would you prefer to ignore that?

Wow.  Surprised by your take.  I feel Boston has the MUCH better roster from top to bottom and their pieces fit so much more then Philly's.  Look at the Bucks.  Outside of Giannis none of the rest are top 20 players but their team fits very well together and they won a championship.  You need talent but you also need chemistry and cohesion.  Philly doesn't have it because their pieces don't fit.  If Boston can get the top 3 seed I like there chances more then Philly's.

I think the pieces fit just fine, especially Harden and Embiid (which are the 2 most important players needing to fit).  And at the end of the day top end talent is what wins in the playoffs.  It always has and it always will.  When teams have starters playing 40 mpg, you need better starters.  That is where you win and lose playoff series, and Embiid and Harden are quite simply both better than anyone on the Celtics.  That matters a great deal as very rarely do teams with the 2 best players lose a playoff series (it does happen, it is just incredibly rare).

Maxey, Harden, Thybulle, Harris, and Embiid is an excellent starting 5.  Green, Niang, Korkmaz, and Milton are fine off the bench.  Maybe Milsap still has some legs or they get something from Joe or Reed.  They could certainly use some shooting and size off their bench, but with a shortened playoff rotation, I think they'd be fine.  Milwaukee is still the team to beat imo, but Philly has the best shot at beating them.

[Celtics2021]

They traded 2 people in their rotation, including a starter, and because Harden hasn't played they didn't replace them.  Take a starter and a rotation player off of any team and don't replace them and it will affect you.  When Harden plays, he will make a lot of this better.  He just changes the whole dynamic of the team because of his not just his scoring, but with his play making as well.  They are far more likely to win the championship this year than Boston is given the talent they have at the top of the roster.

How can you say this with a straight face when we didn't have our third best player in Williams and missed our 4th best player (smart) the majority of the game. Doesn't make a lot of sense. That is a lot more loss than curry and drummond.

Do you really think if they played that game with the same exact people again Philly would play that bad?  (not saying the Celtics wouldn't beat them, but it would be closer)

Would we beat them 50? No, obviously not, that almost never happens especially when a quarter and a half are basically scrubs on scrubs.. But with the same players, yes, we would stomp them. They made the game plan very easy for us because guys like Thybulle (28%) and Forkmaz (29%) shake milton (30%) are shooting so poorly, they basically gave us a free double on Embid every time he touched the ball. Plus Forkmaz and Milton are such bad players they are basically playing 4 on 5 half the time he was on the floor. You can't throw out really terrible players against good teams and expect to win many nights. Obviously Harden pushes one of those guys out of the rotation, but this why they need buy out guys bad.

This is exactly correct.  It's why the Celtics started winning when they got healthy, because for about two months they had a terrible player on the court for 15-20 minutes a night, be it Langford, Nesmith, Freedom, Parker, etc, and normally they had two of them out there.

They'll be better with Harden, no doubt.  I think the real key is Tobias Harris, however.  If he's a pumpkin like he was last night, the  Sixers are going to lose.  When he goes for 30/7/3, like he did against Phoenix a week ago, or 23/8/5 against the Bulls a game earlier, on efficient shooting, the Sixers are a very different team.  He's really inconsistent, however, and a lot of yesterday wasn't the Celtics defense.  He got switched onto Pritchard several times and did nothing out of it, either because the ball didn't find him or he passed out of that matchup.  He's the guy who should really benefit from Harden, because with teams focused on stopping both Embiid and Harden, he's going to see a lot of favorable matchups.

[Moranis]

They'll be better with Harden, no doubt.  I think the real key is Tobias Harris, however.  If he's a pumpkin like he was last night, the  Sixers are going to lose.  When he goes for 30/7/3, like he did against Phoenix a week ago, or 23/8/5 against the Bulls a game earlier, on efficient shooting, the Sixers are a very different team.  He's really inconsistent, however, and a lot of yesterday wasn't the Celtics defense.  He got switched onto Pritchard several times and did nothing out of it, either because the ball didn't find him or he passed out of that matchup.  He's the guy who should really benefit from Harden, because with teams focused on stopping both Embiid and Harden, he's going to see a lot of favorable matchups.

This is exactly correct and what I've been saying I thought Philly's biggest problem the last few years was i.e. Harris isn't good enough as a #2 scoring option, but he had to be because Simmons isn't a scorer at all.  You put Harris into the #3 role he will be in now, and I think he looks better.  Massively overpaid, but will perform well enough as a #3. 

[slamtheking]

They traded 2 people in their rotation, including a starter, and because Harden hasn't played they didn't replace them.  Take a starter and a rotation player off of any team and don't replace them and it will affect you.  When Harden plays, he will make a lot of this better.  He just changes the whole dynamic of the team because of his not just his scoring, but with his play making as well.  They are far more likely to win the championship this year than Boston is given the talent they have at the top of the roster.

Two starters were taken off our team last night and we beat them by 48. Or would you prefer to ignore that?

Wow.  Surprised by your take.  I feel Boston has the MUCH better roster from top to bottom and their pieces fit so much more then Philly's.  Look at the Bucks.  Outside of Giannis none of the rest are top 20 players but their team fits very well together and they won a championship.  You need talent but you also need chemistry and cohesion.  Philly doesn't have it because their pieces don't fit.  If Boston can get the top 3 seed I like there chances more then Philly's.

I think the pieces fit just fine, especially Harden and Embiid (which are the 2 most important players needing to fit).  And at the end of the day top end talent is what wins in the playoffs.  It always has and it always will.  When teams have starters playing 40 mpg, you need better starters.  That is where you win and lose playoff series, and Embiid and Harden are quite simply both better than anyone on the Celtics.  That matters a great deal as very rarely do teams with the 2 best players lose a playoff series (it does happen, it is just incredibly rare).

Maxey, Harden, Thybulle, Harris, and Embiid is an excellent starting 5.  Green, Niang, Korkmaz, and Milton are fine off the bench.  Maybe Milsap still has some legs or they get something from Joe or Reed.  They could certainly use some shooting and size off their bench, but with a shortened playoff rotation, I think they'd be fine.  Milwaukee is still the team to beat imo, but Philly has the best shot at beating them.

that's always been your opinion but that's not always true.  if it were, Lebron - unquestionably the best player of his generation -- would have more than just 4 rings with each one requiring the amassing of other top players to assist/carry him to the title. 
- first Miami title was really Wade being the best player
- second Miami title required a save from Ray Allen
- Cleveland title required a save by Kyrie
- LA title required AD to help with the bubble miracle. 

Point - Philly has Harden and Embiid but I'd take the C's in a series against them this year even though you rate Tatum and Brown as inferior.

[celticsclay]

They traded 2 people in their rotation, including a starter, and because Harden hasn't played they didn't replace them.  Take a starter and a rotation player off of any team and don't replace them and it will affect you.  When Harden plays, he will make a lot of this better.  He just changes the whole dynamic of the team because of his not just his scoring, but with his play making as well.  They are far more likely to win the championship this year than Boston is given the talent they have at the top of the roster.

Two starters were taken off our team last night and we beat them by 48. Or would you prefer to ignore that?

Wow.  Surprised by your take.  I feel Boston has the MUCH better roster from top to bottom and their pieces fit so much more then Philly's.  Look at the Bucks.  Outside of Giannis none of the rest are top 20 players but their team fits very well together and they won a championship.  You need talent but you also need chemistry and cohesion.  Philly doesn't have it because their pieces don't fit.  If Boston can get the top 3 seed I like there chances more then Philly's.

I think the pieces fit just fine, especially Harden and Embiid (which are the 2 most important players needing to fit).  And at the end of the day top end talent is what wins in the playoffs.  It always has and it always will.  When teams have starters playing 40 mpg, you need better starters.  That is where you win and lose playoff series, and Embiid and Harden are quite simply both better than anyone on the Celtics.  That matters a great deal as very rarely do teams with the 2 best players lose a playoff series (it does happen, it is just incredibly rare).

Maxey, Harden, Thybulle, Harris, and Embiid is an excellent starting 5.  Green, Niang, Korkmaz, and Milton are fine off the bench.  Maybe Milsap still has some legs or they get something from Joe or Reed.  They could certainly use some shooting and size off their bench, but with a shortened playoff rotation, I think they'd be fine.  Milwaukee is still the team to beat imo, but Philly has the best shot at beating them.

How are Kork and milton fine? They are shooters that shoot 29% and 30% from 3 and That includes a lot of wide open looks. They are also awful defensively. They can not be two guys in a playoff rotation which is why the 76ers are furiously trying to upgrade them.

[Hoopvortex]

They traded 2 people in their rotation, including a starter, and because Harden hasn't played they didn't replace them.  Take a starter and a rotation player off of any team and don't replace them and it will affect you.  When Harden plays, he will make a lot of this better.  He just changes the whole dynamic of the team because of his not just his scoring, but with his play making as well. 

I think that you're probably right.

But hamstring injuries, especially for players on the wrong side of 30, have a nasty way of recurring, or of limiting movement even when the player is able to play.

I'm glad that Boston doesn't have to deal with his antics, either. I think his dramatic and ugly exits from his last two teams show a guy that isn't championship-caliber.

They are far more likely to win the championship this year than Boston is given the talent they have at the top of the roster.

Two quotations from Red Auerbach are pertinent:

"You've got to have the horses."

"Every player is a role player."

Great geniuses, like Red, resolve the apparently unresolvable contradictions.

It's an old story: individual excellence vs. team play - which is more crucial? Wilt was better than Russ, but it was the Celtics who won all those championships.

I'm betting on Boston.

[Androslav]

I'd like their roster much more if they kept Curry. They undoubtedly have some new strengths, but at the same time they created new weakness. Depth, spot up shooting and wing defense in particular.

[Atzar]

The bubble Lakers set the precedent that a team with two top-five players and little else can win a championship, with some good fortune.  And Embiid has certainly made his case that he's on that level this season. 

Harden has not.  Maybe it's just a matter of playing his way back into shape.  Or maybe he can't, or doesn't want to, put in that effort anymore.  Dude is 32 and certainly seems to be more about partying than anything else nowadays.  If he has another year or two left where he can dial up that MVP-candidate form he had in Houston, then Philly is a contender.  If that level of ball is behind him, then I believe they are not. 

[gift]

The bubble Lakers set the precedent that a team with two top-five players and little else can win a championship, with some good fortune.  And Embiid has certainly made his case that he's on that level this season. 

Harden has not.  Maybe it's just a matter of playing his way back into shape.  Or maybe he can't, or doesn't want to, put in that effort anymore.  Dude is 32 and certainly seems to be more about partying than anything else nowadays.  If he has another year or two left where he can dial up that MVP-candidate form he had in Houston, then Philly is a contender.  If that level of ball is behind him, then I believe they are not.

I kind of think a realistic window for Philly is 2 years, considering the likely arc of their stars in their respective careers. They are on the same timeline and that time is now.

[seancally]

The bubble Lakers set the precedent that a team with two top-five players and little else can win a championship, with some good fortune.  And Embiid has certainly made his case that he's on that level this season. 

Harden has not.  Maybe it's just a matter of playing his way back into shape.  Or maybe he can't, or doesn't want to, put in that effort anymore.  Dude is 32 and certainly seems to be more about partying than anything else nowadays.  If he has another year or two left where he can dial up that MVP-candidate form he had in Houston, then Philly is a contender.  If that level of ball is behind him, then I believe they are not.

I kind of think a realistic window for Philly is 2 years, considering the likely arc of their stars in their respective careers. They are on the same timeline and that time is now.

Lakers model is a bit more specific, I’d reckon: two *two-way* top-five stars… that is, Lebron and AD were both offensive and defensive menaces. Harden is a net-neutral on defense at best.

[Moranis]

The bubble Lakers set the precedent that a team with two top-five players and little else can win a championship, with some good fortune.  And Embiid has certainly made his case that he's on that level this season. 

Harden has not.  Maybe it's just a matter of playing his way back into shape.  Or maybe he can't, or doesn't want to, put in that effort anymore.  Dude is 32 and certainly seems to be more about partying than anything else nowadays.  If he has another year or two left where he can dial up that MVP-candidate form he had in Houston, then Philly is a contender.  If that level of ball is behind him, then I believe they are not.

I kind of think a realistic window for Philly is 2 years, considering the likely arc of their stars in their respective careers. They are on the same timeline and that time is now.

Lakers model is a bit more specific, I’d reckon: two *two-way* top-five stars… that is, Lebron and AD were both offensive and defensive menaces. Harden is a net-neutral on defense at best.

The Sixers have a much better supporting cast than the Lakers had though.  I mean Danny Green was starting in the playoffs and may very well have been the Lakers 3rd best player that season.  He was in the same general range as KCP, Kuzma, and Caruso.  Harris is significantly better than anyone else on the Lakers.  Maxey is probably better as well.  Thybulle is an elite defender.   Green isn't as good as he was, but is still respectable.  Niang is a very strong bench player.  Milton can score even though his shooting is off this year.  So yeah, Embiid and Harden are not as good as James and Davis were, but the rest of the team is significantly better.   Harris alone just really sets them apart as a 29 year old that over the last 4 seasons has averaged 19.3 ppg, 6.8 rpg, and 3.0 apg shooting 52% from 2 and 39% from 3.  He is now their 3rd option making him one of the best 3rd options in the entire sport.

[Ed Monix]

I actually like their team, but the 76ers needs to be in win-now mode because of Harden’s physical decline.

Embiid
Harris
Green
Harden
Thybulle

Maxey, Niang, Milton, Korkmaz, Millsap, Bassey

—————————

Thybulle is the perfect guy to put next to Harden as he can operate as a elite help defender and swarming man-to-man coverage. He actually reminds me of a young Raja Bell.

IMO, Maxey is currently best suited to a 6th man role and will alleviate offensive pressure from Harden.

The big gap in their team is a decent backup centre who can give Embiid a 10-12 minute break so he’s not too gassed down the stretch of games.

[Roy H.]

The big gap in their team is a decent backup centre who can give Embiid a 10-12 minute break so he’s not too gassed down the stretch of games.

Is Robin Lopez out there?  Because yeah, Philly would be a good landing spot for him.

[Ed Monix]

The big gap in their team is a decent backup centre who can give Embiid a 10-12 minute break so he’s not too gassed down the stretch of games.

Is Robin Lopez out there?  Because yeah, Philly would be a good landing spot for him.

As of yet, I don’t think he’s been bought out.

I’ve read he loves Orlando, mostly of his obsession with Disney World…so much so I believe he lives inside the park itself.

But yes he’d be a great backup centre and a good team culture guy.