Celtics trade grades?

[Vermont Green]

I am starting to think that this trade was really White for Langford and a pick but then the Celtics wanted to dump salary to stay under the tax and didn't see a need for Richardson so they used the pick swap to get the Spurs to take on Richardson.

I don’t think this is right.  Richardson had positive value.

Seriously. Short term memory loss aside, Richardson played his role [dang] nicely while he was here. It’s frankly difficult to say he was a liability in any area of the game, which is harder to say about his replacement.

I agree that Richardson does have value.  SAS will likely get something for him in the off season for mostly just the cost of paying him the rest of the season.  For the Celtics, Richardson was certainly useful but I am guessing deemed not necessary.  To hold on to him, the Celtics would need to pay him, pay tax on him, and start the tax clock one year earlier, just to likely trade him in the off season.

As I said, this is a strange trade for a number of reasons, but the one clear thing is that the Celtics really wanted White.  I don't think SAS really wanted Richardson.  Fans can debate whether the owners should have kept Richardson and not worried about the tax.  They can debate whether we gave up too much for White.  All fair.

I am just saying that the Celtics probably could have done this deal for White without sending out Richardson if they wanted.  They probably hoped to send him somewhere else and get more value but weren't able.  All speculation on my part, I admit.  Just trying to rationalize a strange trade.

[slamtheking]

If he makes 1 more 3 pointer every other game in those 13 games he's 21/57 (37%).

I hate arguments like this in general.  While this is true, if he misses one more 3 pointer every other game in those 13 games he's 7/57 (12%).

I don't think hypotheticals that didn't happen tell us a lot.

I agree, hence me saying the sample size is too small and good or bad games wildly swing the averages in the same paragraph.

48 games in SA this year and he wasn’t much better at 30%. Outside of his rookie season when he barely played, White has only had 1 year shooting over 35% from 3pt, which was during the 2019 season. Not sure why people are convinced that he’s going to start shooting better.

I don't understand that either.  he's not a proven outside shooter having a down year -- he's a player that has yet to show he's a reliable outside shooter.  A better ball handler and passer than Richardson -- sure, I'll go along with that.  A better shooter - nope.  A better scorer -- nope.  better for our offense -- not seeing it --> seems to be about equivalent in the sense where Richardson was a better scorer whereas White is a better passer and provides a secondary ball handler with Smart but until White can make something with consistency (even Smart is pretty consistent from in the lane and within 15 feet which White has not shown yet) he's not improving this team's offense.  Defensively, he's switchable but so was Richardson and he wasn't a slouch on D.

Can you explain what you mean by "better scorer"?

I'll agree with better shooter.  But, White seems to be more of a scorer to me, whereas Richardson seemed more passive.

by better scorer, I'm referring to the ability to put the ball in the basket while on the move -- driving into the paint, driving and pulling up for an easy 2, etc...   by shooter, I'm referring to the ability to hit shots from 3 and catch-and-shoot situations from wherever on the floor.

Exactly, Richardson was making 3’s at a high clip, had a midrange shot and could score by driving to the rim. White can’t score outside of the paint. His midrange shooting is as bad as his 3pt.

Makes it all the more an indictment on Richardson's inability to assert himself then, as White outscores him per possession quite comfortably, while also generating significantly more points for others and free throws.

inability?  this would mean he tried and could not do so.   watching how everyone other than Schroder and Smart (sometimes) deferred to the J's on offense, I wouldn't say he had an inability to do so but rather a direction/mentality from the coaching staff as a more likely explanation.  still see that with the team post trade.  difference is Richardson could put the ball in the bucket whereas White is struggling to do so.

White is averaging 11.7 PPG for the Celtics. Richardson averaged 9.7 PPG. White isn't struggling to score, he simply isn't as efficient as he normally is. 

If White was hitting shots at his normal efficiency, he would be scoring even more PPG and would shown to be the much better scorer by far.

Isn't White at 10.7 ppg?  So 1 more ppg, but 1.5 more FGA per game.  White by having the ball in his hand more shot more, but has been far less efficient at scoring than Richardson was in Boston.

Typo...my bad.

But he is still scoring more. He isn't struggling to score. He is struggling to be efficient. He is also having 2.9 assists per game rather than 1.5 APG of Richardson. So he is also responsible for at least 2.8 PPG more than Richardson in that way.

If White was hitting at his career averages he is scoring at least a point more per game, though not more than 1.5. So as can be seen, his lack of efficiency is only hurting the Celtics by a point or so, but overall he is still contributing more than 3.8 PPG to the Celtics than Richardson did, even at his lesser efficiency. And if his normal efficiency returns, then even more than 3.8.

but White handles the ball far more than Richardson did - in fact it's a big reason for acquiring him.  he's the back up PG.  He's supposed to be picking up the responsibilities of both Richardson and Schroder since that's essentially what was given up for him even though Schroder was moved in a separate deal. 

Bottom line, White's underperforming.  I'll state it again, I don't think he stinks -- he looks to be a solid bench player but the cost to acquire him was too much at the time of the trade and it's looked like an even bigger overpayment as the season has continued.

[slamtheking]

If he makes 1 more 3 pointer every other game in those 13 games he's 21/57 (37%).

I hate arguments like this in general.  While this is true, if he misses one more 3 pointer every other game in those 13 games he's 7/57 (12%).

I don't think hypotheticals that didn't happen tell us a lot.

I agree, hence me saying the sample size is too small and good or bad games wildly swing the averages in the same paragraph.

48 games in SA this year and he wasn’t much better at 30%. Outside of his rookie season when he barely played, White has only had 1 year shooting over 35% from 3pt, which was during the 2019 season. Not sure why people are convinced that he’s going to start shooting better.

I don't understand that either.  he's not a proven outside shooter having a down year -- he's a player that has yet to show he's a reliable outside shooter.  A better ball handler and passer than Richardson -- sure, I'll go along with that.  A better shooter - nope.  A better scorer -- nope.  better for our offense -- not seeing it --> seems to be about equivalent in the sense where Richardson was a better scorer whereas White is a better passer and provides a secondary ball handler with Smart but until White can make something with consistency (even Smart is pretty consistent from in the lane and within 15 feet which White has not shown yet) he's not improving this team's offense.  Defensively, he's switchable but so was Richardson and he wasn't a slouch on D.

Can you explain what you mean by "better scorer"?

I'll agree with better shooter.  But, White seems to be more of a scorer to me, whereas Richardson seemed more passive.

by better scorer, I'm referring to the ability to put the ball in the basket while on the move -- driving into the paint, driving and pulling up for an easy 2, etc...   by shooter, I'm referring to the ability to hit shots from 3 and catch-and-shoot situations from wherever on the floor.

Exactly, Richardson was making 3’s at a high clip, had a midrange shot and could score by driving to the rim. White can’t score outside of the paint. His midrange shooting is as bad as his 3pt.

Makes it all the more an indictment on Richardson's inability to assert himself then, as White outscores him per possession quite comfortably, while also generating significantly more points for others and free throws.

inability?  this would mean he tried and could not do so.   watching how everyone other than Schroder and Smart (sometimes) deferred to the J's on offense, I wouldn't say he had an inability to do so but rather a direction/mentality from the coaching staff as a more likely explanation.  still see that with the team post trade.  difference is Richardson could put the ball in the bucket whereas White is struggling to do so.

Not really. I know I don't have the ability to fly without jumping off a building.

and that means what exactly?   comparing something no one can do to whether they want to or not as opposed to something someone doesn't do because that's not what they're directed to do?

[Roy H.]

Bottom line, White's underperforming. 

He is indeed.

I was thinking before the trade deadline that it seems like mid-season acquisitions rarely make a huge impact for teams.  Certainly, that's the case with buyouts, but my gut says it's true of trades, too.  Guys just seem to have a hard time adjusting.

But, I've done no research on the issue.  How often do these trades work out?

Clyde Drexler to the Rockets, obviously.

Pau to the Lakers.

I guess you can count all of the various moves the Cavs made a few years back, but that was quite temporary and didn't help them get past Golden State.

What are some of the other obvious successful in-season trades that had a meaningful effect on a team's playoff chances?

I'm hoping that the value of White versus what we gave up becomes more apparent next season and beyond.

[Roy H.]

If he makes 1 more 3 pointer every other game in those 13 games he's 21/57 (37%).

I hate arguments like this in general.  While this is true, if he misses one more 3 pointer every other game in those 13 games he's 7/57 (12%).

I don't think hypotheticals that didn't happen tell us a lot.

I agree, hence me saying the sample size is too small and good or bad games wildly swing the averages in the same paragraph.

48 games in SA this year and he wasn’t much better at 30%. Outside of his rookie season when he barely played, White has only had 1 year shooting over 35% from 3pt, which was during the 2019 season. Not sure why people are convinced that he’s going to start shooting better.

I don't understand that either.  he's not a proven outside shooter having a down year -- he's a player that has yet to show he's a reliable outside shooter.  A better ball handler and passer than Richardson -- sure, I'll go along with that.  A better shooter - nope.  A better scorer -- nope.  better for our offense -- not seeing it --> seems to be about equivalent in the sense where Richardson was a better scorer whereas White is a better passer and provides a secondary ball handler with Smart but until White can make something with consistency (even Smart is pretty consistent from in the lane and within 15 feet which White has not shown yet) he's not improving this team's offense.  Defensively, he's switchable but so was Richardson and he wasn't a slouch on D.

Can you explain what you mean by "better scorer"?

I'll agree with better shooter.  But, White seems to be more of a scorer to me, whereas Richardson seemed more passive.

by better scorer, I'm referring to the ability to put the ball in the basket while on the move -- driving into the paint, driving and pulling up for an easy 2, etc...   by shooter, I'm referring to the ability to hit shots from 3 and catch-and-shoot situations from wherever on the floor.

Exactly, Richardson was making 3’s at a high clip, had a midrange shot and could score by driving to the rim. White can’t score outside of the paint. His midrange shooting is as bad as his 3pt.

Makes it all the more an indictment on Richardson's inability to assert himself then, as White outscores him per possession quite comfortably, while also generating significantly more points for others and free throws.

inability?  this would mean he tried and could not do so.   watching how everyone other than Schroder and Smart (sometimes) deferred to the J's on offense, I wouldn't say he had an inability to do so but rather a direction/mentality from the coaching staff as a more likely explanation.  still see that with the team post trade.  difference is Richardson could put the ball in the bucket whereas White is struggling to do so.

I don't think that Richardson was directed to keep his shots down, or defer to the Jays.  I think he's just passive, for whatever reason.  It's one of the arguments I made about Langford:  scoring rate is an important and overlooked stat.  Some guys just don't take shots, which can hurt an offense no matter how good their efficiency is.

I think that this is a weakness of Richardson's, rather than any sort of coaching strategy.  For most of his career Richardson has settled into that 11-to-12 FGAs per 36 minutes range.  That's where he was for a lot of his career in Miami, in Boston, and now in San Antonio.  That doesn't make him necessarily unaggressive -- it's about middle of the road for Celtics this year -- but it doesn't make him a scorer, either.  He doesn't force the action in a bad way, but he also isn't aggressive in a good way, either.

I like that White drives the ball and moves with purpose.  It just sucks that his jumper looks horrible so far.

[slamtheking]

Bottom line, White's underperforming. 

He is indeed.

I was thinking before the trade deadline that it seems like mid-season acquisitions rarely make a huge impact for teams.  Certainly, that's the case with buyouts, but my gut says it's true of trades, too.  Guys just seem to have a hard time adjusting.

But, I've done no research on the issue.  How often do these trades work out?

Clyde Drexler to the Rockets, obviously.

Pau to the Lakers.

I guess you can count all of the various moves the Cavs made a few years back, but that was quite temporary and didn't help them get past Golden State.

What are some of the other obvious successful in-season trades that had a meaningful effect on a team's playoff chances?

I'm hoping that the value of White versus what we gave up becomes more apparent next season and beyond.

that would seem to be the key hope for this trade -- that it pays off longterm if it's not paying off immediately.  He'll have to do a lot better than he's doing this season to justify the cost to acquire him. 

I'm not suggesting Richardson or Schroder were longterm pieces here but they did perform a function and fairly decently especially in relation to their contracts.  I know there's debate in that regard concerning Romeo (I think he's got skills but he's got to stay healthy to show them).  The picks were overpay.  If this was just Richardson for White there wouldn't be a lot of debate or even if it were Richardson and either Romeo or the first there'd be less debate but White's struggling to show he was worth just Richardson alone so far.

[nickagneta]

If he makes 1 more 3 pointer every other game in those 13 games he's 21/57 (37%).

I hate arguments like this in general.  While this is true, if he misses one more 3 pointer every other game in those 13 games he's 7/57 (12%).

I don't think hypotheticals that didn't happen tell us a lot.

I agree, hence me saying the sample size is too small and good or bad games wildly swing the averages in the same paragraph.

48 games in SA this year and he wasn’t much better at 30%. Outside of his rookie season when he barely played, White has only had 1 year shooting over 35% from 3pt, which was during the 2019 season. Not sure why people are convinced that he’s going to start shooting better.

I don't understand that either.  he's not a proven outside shooter having a down year -- he's a player that has yet to show he's a reliable outside shooter.  A better ball handler and passer than Richardson -- sure, I'll go along with that.  A better shooter - nope.  A better scorer -- nope.  better for our offense -- not seeing it --> seems to be about equivalent in the sense where Richardson was a better scorer whereas White is a better passer and provides a secondary ball handler with Smart but until White can make something with consistency (even Smart is pretty consistent from in the lane and within 15 feet which White has not shown yet) he's not improving this team's offense.  Defensively, he's switchable but so was Richardson and he wasn't a slouch on D.

Can you explain what you mean by "better scorer"?

I'll agree with better shooter.  But, White seems to be more of a scorer to me, whereas Richardson seemed more passive.

by better scorer, I'm referring to the ability to put the ball in the basket while on the move -- driving into the paint, driving and pulling up for an easy 2, etc...   by shooter, I'm referring to the ability to hit shots from 3 and catch-and-shoot situations from wherever on the floor.

Exactly, Richardson was making 3’s at a high clip, had a midrange shot and could score by driving to the rim. White can’t score outside of the paint. His midrange shooting is as bad as his 3pt.

Makes it all the more an indictment on Richardson's inability to assert himself then, as White outscores him per possession quite comfortably, while also generating significantly more points for others and free throws.

inability?  this would mean he tried and could not do so.   watching how everyone other than Schroder and Smart (sometimes) deferred to the J's on offense, I wouldn't say he had an inability to do so but rather a direction/mentality from the coaching staff as a more likely explanation.  still see that with the team post trade.  difference is Richardson could put the ball in the bucket whereas White is struggling to do so.

I don't think that Richardson was directed to keep his shots down, or defer to the Jays.  I think he's just passive, for whatever reason.  It's one of the arguments I made about Langford:  scoring rate is an important and overlooked stat.  Some guys just don't take shots, which can hurt an offense no matter how good their efficiency is.

I think that this is a weakness of Richardson's, rather than any sort of coaching strategy.  For most of his career Richardson has settled into that 11-to-12 FGAs per 36 minutes range.  That's where he was for a lot of his career in Miami, in Boston, and now in San Antonio.  That doesn't make him necessarily unaggressive -- it's about middle of the road for Celtics this year -- but it doesn't make him a scorer, either.  He doesn't force the action in a bad way, but he also isn't aggressive in a good way, either.

I like that White drives the ball and moves with purpose.  It just sucks that his jumper looks horrible so far.

The griping about White's shot is pretty trivial to me. He isn't a 24% three point shooter. We all know that. Same as we knew Tatum wasn't a 32% three point shooter. Same as we know Jaylen isn't a 33% three point shooter. Slumps happen.

And if White hit his threes at 36%, a reasonable ask, he makes, in total, just 5 more three pointers so far, increasing his PPG to 11.8 PPG, he increases his FG% to 44.6%(his career average) and increases his TS% to 56.8%.

5 three pointers.....that's it.

If he makes those five shots, is he now performing well and the trade looked upon more favorably? Seems to me if it does, then it certainly is a case of making a rash decision based on a small sample size.

It should also be noted that on trade day the Celtics were averaging 108.4 PPG. In the 11 games since they are averaging 115.4 PPG. Did getting rid of Richardson's passivity and Schröder's ball hogging ways and replacing them with White and Payton's games improve ball movement and overall team offensive performance?

[Roy H.]

If he makes 1 more 3 pointer every other game in those 13 games he's 21/57 (37%).

I hate arguments like this in general.  While this is true, if he misses one more 3 pointer every other game in those 13 games he's 7/57 (12%).

I don't think hypotheticals that didn't happen tell us a lot.

I agree, hence me saying the sample size is too small and good or bad games wildly swing the averages in the same paragraph.

48 games in SA this year and he wasn’t much better at 30%. Outside of his rookie season when he barely played, White has only had 1 year shooting over 35% from 3pt, which was during the 2019 season. Not sure why people are convinced that he’s going to start shooting better.

I don't understand that either.  he's not a proven outside shooter having a down year -- he's a player that has yet to show he's a reliable outside shooter.  A better ball handler and passer than Richardson -- sure, I'll go along with that.  A better shooter - nope.  A better scorer -- nope.  better for our offense -- not seeing it --> seems to be about equivalent in the sense where Richardson was a better scorer whereas White is a better passer and provides a secondary ball handler with Smart but until White can make something with consistency (even Smart is pretty consistent from in the lane and within 15 feet which White has not shown yet) he's not improving this team's offense.  Defensively, he's switchable but so was Richardson and he wasn't a slouch on D.

Can you explain what you mean by "better scorer"?

I'll agree with better shooter.  But, White seems to be more of a scorer to me, whereas Richardson seemed more passive.

by better scorer, I'm referring to the ability to put the ball in the basket while on the move -- driving into the paint, driving and pulling up for an easy 2, etc...   by shooter, I'm referring to the ability to hit shots from 3 and catch-and-shoot situations from wherever on the floor.

Exactly, Richardson was making 3’s at a high clip, had a midrange shot and could score by driving to the rim. White can’t score outside of the paint. His midrange shooting is as bad as his 3pt.

Makes it all the more an indictment on Richardson's inability to assert himself then, as White outscores him per possession quite comfortably, while also generating significantly more points for others and free throws.

inability?  this would mean he tried and could not do so.   watching how everyone other than Schroder and Smart (sometimes) deferred to the J's on offense, I wouldn't say he had an inability to do so but rather a direction/mentality from the coaching staff as a more likely explanation.  still see that with the team post trade.  difference is Richardson could put the ball in the bucket whereas White is struggling to do so.

I don't think that Richardson was directed to keep his shots down, or defer to the Jays.  I think he's just passive, for whatever reason.  It's one of the arguments I made about Langford:  scoring rate is an important and overlooked stat.  Some guys just don't take shots, which can hurt an offense no matter how good their efficiency is.

I think that this is a weakness of Richardson's, rather than any sort of coaching strategy.  For most of his career Richardson has settled into that 11-to-12 FGAs per 36 minutes range.  That's where he was for a lot of his career in Miami, in Boston, and now in San Antonio.  That doesn't make him necessarily unaggressive -- it's about middle of the road for Celtics this year -- but it doesn't make him a scorer, either.  He doesn't force the action in a bad way, but he also isn't aggressive in a good way, either.

I like that White drives the ball and moves with purpose.  It just sucks that his jumper looks horrible so far.

The griping about White's shot is pretty trivial to me. He isn't a 24% three point shooter. We all know that. Same as we knew Tatum wasn't a 32% three point shooter. Same as we know Jaylen isn't a 33% three point shooter. Slumps happen.

And if White hit his threes at 36%, a reasonable ask, he makes, in total, just 5 more three pointers so far, increasing his PPG to 11.8 PPG, he increases his FG% to 44.6%(his career average) and increases his TS% to 56.8%.

5 three pointers.....that's it.

If he makes those five shots, is he now performing well and the trade looked upon more favorably? Seems to me if it does, then it certainly is a case of making a rash decision based on a small sample size.

This argument keeps coming up from several posters, both regarding White and the overall lack of Celtics shooting.  It's fine to the extent that it's limited to "with such a small sample size, crazy swings can happen".  But, in general, I hate the "if ______ had only hit _____ more shots, then his shooting percentage would be ___________.   People use it to suggest that random variance is responsible for bad numbers.  But, keep in mind that variance goes both ways.  For instance, with White five more 3PMs made would make a significant upward impact.  But, the reverse is also true:  if he hit five fewer 3PTs, his averages would go from bad to truly horrific:  9.5 ppg, 36.4% FG%, 15.8% 3PT%

So, it's a fair argument regarding sample size, but I'm a big believer in "you are who your record says you are", or in this case, you are what your stats say you are.  That's to date, of course.  There's always room for improvement, which his track record suggests will happen.

It should also be noted that on trade day the Celtics were averaging 108.4 PPG. In the 11 games since they are averaging 115.4 PPG. Did getting rid of Richardson's passivity and Schröder's ball hogging ways and replacing them with White and Payton's games improve ball movement and overall team offensive performance?

This, I think, is a very interesting question.  You make trades to improve the team.  It's possible for a player to impact winning even without a large impact in the box score.  Andre Iguodala with GSW will always be a prime example of this to me.  Perhaps White (and Pritchard) have aided here?

[Moranis]

Boston has significantly shrunk its rotation and is still playing by and large weaker teams.  I think that explains a lot of the difference in the increased ppg. 

EDIT: for further support the last 11 games the team has 115.3636 ppg, but the 11 games directly preceding that 112.2727 ppg.  That coincides pretty significantly with the easier schedule, smaller rotation, and basically full health.  In other words, the trade deadline didn't really affect the team's scoring much at all.  And the 115 includes the 50 point beatdown of the Sixers when they were down a bunch of players and Boston won 135-87, which obviously skews the numbers a lot.

[Vermont Green]

The argument of if he hit a few more or missed a few more is a hypothetical, agreed but this season on the Celtics, he has only taken 50 or so 3s and is shooting 24%.  Before this season, he was a career 35.6% from 3 (over 600 attempts).  So yeah, you could say that in his career, if he had missed 100 more shots or something, then he would be shooting 25% but that is far less reasonable than to play that game with a sample size of only 50 shots.  And it would be the same if he had shot 45% on his first 50 attempts.  You wouldn't expect that to continue anymore than this 24% shooting.

But that aside, which do you think is more representative of who he is as a player or who he will be as a player moving forward?  The 24% on the most recent 50 shots or the 36% on the previous 600 shots?  I get that it is hard to ignore all the "clanking" shots he has had since joining the Celtics as you try to assess the trade.  That is what there is to see so far.  I just think it is far more likely he is really the 35%-36% shooter that he was over 600 attempts than he is the 24% shooter over the last 50 attempts.

[jambr380]

The argument of if he hit a few more or missed a few more is a hypothetical, agreed but this season on the Celtics, he has only taken 50 or so 3s and is shooting 24%.  Before this season, he was a career 35.6% from 3 (over 600 attempts).  So yeah, you could say that in his career, if he had missed 100 more shots or something, then he would be shooting 25% but that is far less reasonable than to play that game with a sample size of only 50 shots.  And it would be the same if he had shot 45% on his first 50 attempts.  You wouldn't expect that to continue anymore than this 24% shooting.

But that aside, which do you think is more representative of who he is as a player or who he will be as a player moving forward?  The 24% on the most recent 50 shots or the 36% on the previous 600 shots?  I get that it is hard to ignore all the "clanking" shots he has had since joining the Celtics as you try to assess the trade.  That is what there is to see so far.  I just think it is far more likely he is really the 35%-36% shooter that he was over 600 attempts than he is the 24% shooter over the last 50 attempts.

I sure hope so. But you are right about the 'clanking'. His misses have been ugly - and not in a Nesmith freaking out and throwing the ball off the backboard kind-of way. White looks in control, they look like good shots, but then the shot appears both short and off-target, leading to the aforementioned clanking. I agree that White seems like a good fit and a good teammate, but there is a lot of pressure for him to get his shot right - especially on this team.

[slamtheking]

Boston has significantly shrunk its rotation and is still playing by and large weaker teams.  I think that explains a lot of the difference in the increased ppg. 

EDIT: for further support the last 11 games the team has 115.3636 ppg, but the 11 games directly preceding that 112.2727 ppg.  That coincides pretty significantly with the easier schedule, smaller rotation, and basically full health.  In other words, the trade deadline didn't really affect the team's scoring much at all.  And the 115 includes the 50 point beatdown of the Sixers when they were down a bunch of players and Boston won 135-87, which obviously skews the numbers a lot.

the schedule strength may be part of it.  the "impact of White" on this is probably less significant than the  "absence of Schroder" as well as Tatum finally putting it together on offense. 

[slamtheking]

The argument of if he hit a few more or missed a few more is a hypothetical, agreed but this season on the Celtics, he has only taken 50 or so 3s and is shooting 24%.  Before this season, he was a career 35.6% from 3 (over 600 attempts).  So yeah, you could say that in his career, if he had missed 100 more shots or something, then he would be shooting 25% but that is far less reasonable than to play that game with a sample size of only 50 shots.  And it would be the same if he had shot 45% on his first 50 attempts.  You wouldn't expect that to continue anymore than this 24% shooting.

But that aside, which do you think is more representative of who he is as a player or who he will be as a player moving forward?  The 24% on the most recent 50 shots or the 36% on the previous 600 shots?  I get that it is hard to ignore all the "clanking" shots he has had since joining the Celtics as you try to assess the trade.  That is what there is to see so far.  I just think it is far more likely he is really the 35%-36% shooter that he was over 600 attempts than he is the 24% shooter over the last 50 attempts.

what I'm curious about is where people are coming up with this figure of White being a career 36% shooter from 3.  He had one year where he made that percentage --> 19-20 for 36.6%.  That's it.   Discounting his rookie year where he only played 17 games and hit .5 on .8 per game (8 for 13 total), his full season averages were 33.8% in 18-19, the 36.6% mentioned in 19-20, 34.6% in 20-21 and 31.4/24.6 split this season for 30.2% overall.  That's not great outside shooting.  I can go along with he's shooting worse than he has in SA since he's been in Boston but I'm not seeing anything in SA that screams out "this guy is a good shooter going through a slump".  He's just a mediocre shooter in a slump. 

Compare him to Smart over the past 4 years and Smart's been the better 3 point shooter and we all know how we feel about Smart taking 3's.  That's even accounting for Smart's disregard for his shooting percentage when he's the one usually taking the last-second heaves at the end of quarters (which I fully appreciate him taking that chance instead of dribbling out the clock).

[Roy H.]

what I'm curious about is where people are coming up with this figure of White being a career 36% shooter from 3. 

I think that he was at 35.7% prior to this season.  He's now down to 33.8% for his career after his combined showings in SA and BOS this season.

[nickagneta]

The argument of if he hit a few more or missed a few more is a hypothetical, agreed but this season on the Celtics, he has only taken 50 or so 3s and is shooting 24%.  Before this season, he was a career 35.6% from 3 (over 600 attempts).  So yeah, you could say that in his career, if he had missed 100 more shots or something, then he would be shooting 25% but that is far less reasonable than to play that game with a sample size of only 50 shots.  And it would be the same if he had shot 45% on his first 50 attempts.  You wouldn't expect that to continue anymore than this 24% shooting.

But that aside, which do you think is more representative of who he is as a player or who he will be as a player moving forward?  The 24% on the most recent 50 shots or the 36% on the previous 600 shots?  I get that it is hard to ignore all the "clanking" shots he has had since joining the Celtics as you try to assess the trade.  That is what there is to see so far.  I just think it is far more likely he is really the 35%-36% shooter that he was over 600 attempts than he is the 24% shooter over the last 50 attempts.

what I'm curious about is where people are coming up with this figure of White being a career 36% shooter from 3.  He had one year where he made that percentage --> 19-20 for 36.6%.  That's it.   Discounting his rookie year where he only played 17 games and hit .5 on .8 per game (8 for 13 total), his full season averages were 33.8% in 18-19, the 36.6% mentioned in 19-20, 34.6% in 20-21 and 31.4/24.6 split this season for 30.2% overall.  That's not great outside shooting.  I can go along with he's shooting worse than he has in SA since he's been in Boston but I'm not seeing anything in SA that screams out "this guy is a good shooter going through a slump".  He's just a mediocre shooter in a slump. 

Compare him to Smart over the past 4 years and Smart's been the better 3 point shooter and we all know how we feel about Smart taking 3's.  That's even accounting for Smart's disregard for his shooting percentage when he's the one usually taking the last-second heaves at the end of quarters (which I fully appreciate him taking that chance instead of dribbling out the clock).

You're kidding regarding his career three point percentage right?

It's real simple. Go to basketball-reference.com. Highlight his first four years in the league. And they will give you a total on his career. 188 games played. 35.7% three point percentage.