Official NBA Trade Deadline Thread

[Celtics2021]

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

The Utah Jazz are acquiring guard Portland’s Nickeil Alexander-Walker and the Spurs’ Juancho Hernangomez in a three-way deal, sources tell ESPN. The Spurs gets guard Tomas Satoransky and a second-round pick, and the Blazers get Joe Ingles, Elijah Hughes and a second-round pick.

That is a pretty crappy trade for Utah. They needed to replace Ingles with a quality rotation player. They failed to do that. They went cheap instead. Penny pinching. And in doing so they have given up on the title.

They are so close to winning a Championship. I hate to see such lack of ambition.

All Utah gave up is Elijah Hughes.  Ingles is done for the year and expiring.  How can this be bad for Utah?  Neutral maybe but I don't see how they lost anything.

They’ve got a contending team.  At their disposal to get a piece to replace Ingles they had Ingles’ expiring contract, some mediocre draft picks, and Elijah Hughes.  They went with tax reduction and a different prospect guard instead of trying to get a player who could actually get them over the hump in the West.  It feels like they could have gotten Eric Gordon for that package with slightly better draft compensation.

So Ingles is the difference between competing for a title and not?  A guy who scored 7 pts in 25 minutes?  I don't know.  Alexander-Walker scores more, rebounds more and is not that much worse 3p% (31% to 35%).  He he perfectly fine to come off the bench for them.  And Hernangomez may give them some helpful minutes.  I see this as Utah getting something for nothing while saving a little money.

No, an improvement on Ingles would be a difference, not a downgrade on his already sub-par year.

Also LOL to Hernangomez giving helpful minutes. Dude’s on his 5th team in 7 months.

[Vermont Green]

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

The Utah Jazz are acquiring guard Portland’s Nickeil Alexander-Walker and the Spurs’ Juancho Hernangomez in a three-way deal, sources tell ESPN. The Spurs gets guard Tomas Satoransky and a second-round pick, and the Blazers get Joe Ingles, Elijah Hughes and a second-round pick.

That is a pretty crappy trade for Utah. They needed to replace Ingles with a quality rotation player. They failed to do that. They went cheap instead. Penny pinching. And in doing so they have given up on the title.

They are so close to winning a Championship. I hate to see such lack of ambition.

All Utah gave up is Elijah Hughes.  Ingles is done for the year and expiring.  How can this be bad for Utah?  Neutral maybe but I don't see how they lost anything.

They’ve got a contending team.  At their disposal to get a piece to replace Ingles they had Ingles’ expiring contract, some mediocre draft picks, and Elijah Hughes.  They went with tax reduction and a different prospect guard instead of trying to get a player who could actually get them over the hump in the West.  It feels like they could have gotten Eric Gordon for that package with slightly better draft compensation.

So Ingles is the difference between competing for a title and not?  A guy who scored 7 pts in 25 minutes?  I don't know.  Alexander-Walker scores more, rebounds more and is not that much worse 3p% (31% to 35%).  He he perfectly fine to come off the bench for them.  And Hernangomez may give them some helpful minutes.  I see this as Utah getting something for nothing while saving a little money.

No, an improvement on Ingles would be a difference, not a downgrade on his already sub-par year.

Also LOL to Hernangomez giving helpful minutes. Dude’s on his 5th team in 7 months.

I know, Hernangomez is salary ballast but you don't think Alexander-Walker can match Ingles 7.2 pts/gm if given 25 minutes?  I don't think Utah is any less likely to win a title now than they were a month ago.  Ingles hardly makes any difference and now they have someone else to hardly make any difference.  You want them to go all in and get some vet that may or may not make a bigger difference.  That is fine.  They still might.  In the meantime, this is a decent trade for them.

[footey]

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

The Utah Jazz are acquiring guard Portland’s Nickeil Alexander-Walker and the Spurs’ Juancho Hernangomez in a three-way deal, sources tell ESPN. The Spurs gets guard Tomas Satoransky and a second-round pick, and the Blazers get Joe Ingles, Elijah Hughes and a second-round pick.

That is a pretty crappy trade for Utah. They needed to replace Ingles with a quality rotation player. They failed to do that. They went cheap instead. Penny pinching. And in doing so they have given up on the title.

They are so close to winning a Championship. I hate to see such lack of ambition.

All Utah gave up is Elijah Hughes.  Ingles is done for the year and expiring.  How can this be bad for Utah?  Neutral maybe but I don't see how they lost anything.

They’ve got a contending team.  At their disposal to get a piece to replace Ingles they had Ingles’ expiring contract, some mediocre draft picks, and Elijah Hughes.  They went with tax reduction and a different prospect guard instead of trying to get a player who could actually get them over the hump in the West.  It feels like they could have gotten Eric Gordon for that package with slightly better draft compensation.

So Ingles is the difference between competing for a title and not?  A guy who scored 7 pts in 25 minutes?  I don't know.  Alexander-Walker scores more, rebounds more and is not that much worse 3p% (31% to 35%).  He he perfectly fine to come off the bench for them.  And Hernangomez may give them some helpful minutes.  I see this as Utah getting something for nothing while saving a little money.

No, an improvement on Ingles would be a difference, not a downgrade on his already sub-par year.

Also LOL to Hernangomez giving helpful minutes. Dude’s on his 5th team in 7 months.

I know, Hernangomez is salary ballast but you don't think Alexander-Walker can match Ingles 7.2 pts/gm if given 25 minutes?  I don't think Utah is any less likely to win a title now than they were a month ago.  Ingles hardly makes any difference and now they have someone else to hardly make any difference.  You want them to go all in and get some vet that may or may not make a bigger difference.  That is fine.  They still might.  In the meantime, this is a decent trade for them.

TP for working "ballast" into a sentence on CS.  That is awesome.

[Celtics2021]

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

The Utah Jazz are acquiring guard Portland’s Nickeil Alexander-Walker and the Spurs’ Juancho Hernangomez in a three-way deal, sources tell ESPN. The Spurs gets guard Tomas Satoransky and a second-round pick, and the Blazers get Joe Ingles, Elijah Hughes and a second-round pick.

That is a pretty crappy trade for Utah. They needed to replace Ingles with a quality rotation player. They failed to do that. They went cheap instead. Penny pinching. And in doing so they have given up on the title.

They are so close to winning a Championship. I hate to see such lack of ambition.

All Utah gave up is Elijah Hughes.  Ingles is done for the year and expiring.  How can this be bad for Utah?  Neutral maybe but I don't see how they lost anything.

They’ve got a contending team.  At their disposal to get a piece to replace Ingles they had Ingles’ expiring contract, some mediocre draft picks, and Elijah Hughes.  They went with tax reduction and a different prospect guard instead of trying to get a player who could actually get them over the hump in the West.  It feels like they could have gotten Eric Gordon for that package with slightly better draft compensation.

So Ingles is the difference between competing for a title and not?  A guy who scored 7 pts in 25 minutes?  I don't know.  Alexander-Walker scores more, rebounds more and is not that much worse 3p% (31% to 35%).  He he perfectly fine to come off the bench for them.  And Hernangomez may give them some helpful minutes.  I see this as Utah getting something for nothing while saving a little money.

No, an improvement on Ingles would be a difference, not a downgrade on his already sub-par year.

Also LOL to Hernangomez giving helpful minutes. Dude’s on his 5th team in 7 months.

I know, Hernangomez is salary ballast but you don't think Alexander-Walker can match Ingles 7.2 pts/gm if given 25 minutes?  I don't think Utah is any less likely to win a title now than they were a month ago.  Ingles hardly makes any difference and now they have someone else to hardly make any difference.  You want them to go all in and get some vet that may or may not make a bigger difference.  That is fine.  They still might.  In the meantime, this is a decent trade for them.

I don’t think a guy with a TS% of .474 will successfully replace a guy with a TS% of .551, no.  He might score the same amount of points, but it will take him more shots to do so.  For perspective, the difference between how much better Marcus Smart’s (an objectively not good shooter) shooting is than NAW this year is equal to how much better Steph Curry is shooting compared to Smart.

[Moranis]

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

The Utah Jazz are acquiring guard Portland’s Nickeil Alexander-Walker and the Spurs’ Juancho Hernangomez in a three-way deal, sources tell ESPN. The Spurs gets guard Tomas Satoransky and a second-round pick, and the Blazers get Joe Ingles, Elijah Hughes and a second-round pick.

That is a pretty crappy trade for Utah. They needed to replace Ingles with a quality rotation player. They failed to do that. They went cheap instead. Penny pinching. And in doing so they have given up on the title.

They are so close to winning a Championship. I hate to see such lack of ambition.

All Utah gave up is Elijah Hughes.  Ingles is done for the year and expiring.  How can this be bad for Utah?  Neutral maybe but I don't see how they lost anything.

Because they had to replace Ingles after he got hurt.

No Ingles, no rings. No Ingles replacement, no rings.

Gotta replace Ingles. Utah win with depth and balance. Take out a significant piece of that and they no longer have the talent they need to compete with teams with stronger cores (their main 2-3-4 players). They had to replace Ingles to compete for a title. That mean giving up a 1st round pick or something plus Ingles to get a quality rotation player in return. They failed to that.

They gave up on the season. They gave up on competing for a Championship.

They weren't winning the title this year without upgrading the top end talent.  A bench rotation piece was not making the difference between them winning and them losing.

[Vermont Green]

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

The Utah Jazz are acquiring guard Portland’s Nickeil Alexander-Walker and the Spurs’ Juancho Hernangomez in a three-way deal, sources tell ESPN. The Spurs gets guard Tomas Satoransky and a second-round pick, and the Blazers get Joe Ingles, Elijah Hughes and a second-round pick.

That is a pretty crappy trade for Utah. They needed to replace Ingles with a quality rotation player. They failed to do that. They went cheap instead. Penny pinching. And in doing so they have given up on the title.

They are so close to winning a Championship. I hate to see such lack of ambition.

All Utah gave up is Elijah Hughes.  Ingles is done for the year and expiring.  How can this be bad for Utah?  Neutral maybe but I don't see how they lost anything.

They’ve got a contending team.  At their disposal to get a piece to replace Ingles they had Ingles’ expiring contract, some mediocre draft picks, and Elijah Hughes.  They went with tax reduction and a different prospect guard instead of trying to get a player who could actually get them over the hump in the West.  It feels like they could have gotten Eric Gordon for that package with slightly better draft compensation.

So Ingles is the difference between competing for a title and not?  A guy who scored 7 pts in 25 minutes?  I don't know.  Alexander-Walker scores more, rebounds more and is not that much worse 3p% (31% to 35%).  He he perfectly fine to come off the bench for them.  And Hernangomez may give them some helpful minutes.  I see this as Utah getting something for nothing while saving a little money.

No, an improvement on Ingles would be a difference, not a downgrade on his already sub-par year.

Also LOL to Hernangomez giving helpful minutes. Dude’s on his 5th team in 7 months.

I know, Hernangomez is salary ballast but you don't think Alexander-Walker can match Ingles 7.2 pts/gm if given 25 minutes?  I don't think Utah is any less likely to win a title now than they were a month ago.  Ingles hardly makes any difference and now they have someone else to hardly make any difference.  You want them to go all in and get some vet that may or may not make a bigger difference.  That is fine.  They still might.  In the meantime, this is a decent trade for them.

I don’t think a guy with a TS% of .474 will successfully replace a guy with a TS% of .551, no.  He might score the same amount of points, but it will take him more shots to do so.  For perspective, the difference between how much better Marcus Smart’s (an objectively not good shooter) shooting is than NAW this year is equal to how much better Steph Curry is shooting compared to Smart.

Alexander-Walker is a slightly different, marginally impactful bench player replacing a less athletic, better (more efficient) shooting, marginally impactful bench player.  This is a good debate but I don't see this altering Utah's playoff trajectory one bit.

I see this as similar to our disagreement over Grant Williams.  Ingles is scoring 7 pts in 25 minutes.  Yes, he does so very efficiently, I am sure he has very good shot selection.  He filled a nice if inconsequential role for them.  Now they have someone else to fill that role.  I don't think it matters if Ingles is a little better or not.  I am arguing it doesn't matter.

But Utah is better today with an inconsequential bench player that can play over one that is injured and out for the season.  Any success they are going to have in the playoffs is going to be about Gobert and Mitchell, not Ingles and NAW.

[Celtics2021]

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

The Utah Jazz are acquiring guard Portland’s Nickeil Alexander-Walker and the Spurs’ Juancho Hernangomez in a three-way deal, sources tell ESPN. The Spurs gets guard Tomas Satoransky and a second-round pick, and the Blazers get Joe Ingles, Elijah Hughes and a second-round pick.

That is a pretty crappy trade for Utah. They needed to replace Ingles with a quality rotation player. They failed to do that. They went cheap instead. Penny pinching. And in doing so they have given up on the title.

They are so close to winning a Championship. I hate to see such lack of ambition.

All Utah gave up is Elijah Hughes.  Ingles is done for the year and expiring.  How can this be bad for Utah?  Neutral maybe but I don't see how they lost anything.

Because they had to replace Ingles after he got hurt.

No Ingles, no rings. No Ingles replacement, no rings.

Gotta replace Ingles. Utah win with depth and balance. Take out a significant piece of that and they no longer have the talent they need to compete with teams with stronger cores (their main 2-3-4 players). They had to replace Ingles to compete for a title. That mean giving up a 1st round pick or something plus Ingles to get a quality rotation player in return. They failed to that.

They gave up on the season. They gave up on competing for a Championship.

They weren't winning the title this year without upgrading the top end talent.  A bench rotation piece was not making the difference between them winning and them losing.

That's a bold statement, that of course is unprovable.  They were tied with Memphis in the loss column for 3rd and only 2 games back of Golden State when Mitchell went down in mid-January with a concussion and missed 8 games.  You've been swearing up and down all season that Phoenix isn't going to win, so essentially Utah was 2 games out of being the best team in the conference three weeks ago before their best player got hurt, now he's back, and they don't have a chance?

I don't want to derail this thread, so you don't need to respond.

[Jiri Welsch]

@Donoghus: So we're good to use this thread to talk about rumors and react to reportedly agreed upon deals?

Absolutely.  My post was more related to people racing to post new trades and/or speculation threads. 

There's a tendency for people to rush to be first on here.  Sometimes this leads to fake twitter account news being posted or people posting speculation as if it was an actual trade.

Awesome thank you!!

[Who]

Joe Ingles has been one of the best team offensive glue guys in the NBA over the last several years. Pretty much only star players like LeBron and Co. can match his impact on team offense from the wing position.

The reason for this huge influence has been (1) high level perimeter shooting (2) shot selection and overall scoring efficiency (3) secondary ball-handler (4) secondary playmaking (5) overall high level decision maker and hugely efficient.

Ingles has had a big role in Utah's recent success.

Over the previous 3 years, Ingles had been averaging 5apg in only 30mpg while sharing the ball with a ball-dominant Donovan Mitchell and often a PG (Conley, Clarkson, Rubio). He has only been scoring 11ppg but he has done so on 61% TS%.

On top of this he was a good defensive player.

This is the piece they had to replace. Not like for like but a talented rotation player to replace a now old & out of commission Joe Ingles.

They did not do that. Instead they decided to settle for a work in progress young player who might be good in a couple of seasons time.

They needed a ready-to-play replacement. A winner. A mature basketball player who knows how to win.

[Who]

Utah wins with balance and depth. Look at their forward rotation right now:

SF: Bogdanovic, 23yo 47% TS% NAW
PF: O'Neale, 35yo Rudy Gay

It is just not going to get it done. They don't have the horses.

They had to make a big push to improve their forward rotation to give Gobert, Mitchell and Conley more help. They failed to do that. They prized money and maintaining future draft picks over challenging for a title.

This is their window. Right here, right now.

They have no idea how long it will be open for. Conley is already 34. Bogdanovic 32. Mitchell appears a bit antsy and may look for a move in the near future. Then they are back rebuilding ... again. Yay.

Yay to low expectations and settling for less.

[sgrogan]

Utah wins with balance and depth. Look at their forward rotation right now:

SF: Bogdanovic, 23yo 47% TS% NAW
PF: O'Neale, 35yo Rudy Gay

It is just not going to get it done. They don't have the horses.

They had to make a big push to improve their forward rotation to give Gobert, Mitchell and Conley more help. They failed to do that. They prized money and maintaining future draft picks over challenging for a title.

This is their window. Right here, right now.

They have no idea how long it will be open for. Conley is already 34. Bogdanovic 32. Mitchell appears a bit antsy and may look for a move in the near future. Then they are back rebuilding ... again. Yay.

Yay to low expectations and settling for less.

What do you think if Ingall's was healthy? Did they still need to make an "all in" move?

[Who]

Utah wins with balance and depth. Look at their forward rotation right now:

SF: Bogdanovic, 23yo 47% TS% NAW
PF: O'Neale, 35yo Rudy Gay

It is just not going to get it done. They don't have the horses.

They had to make a big push to improve their forward rotation to give Gobert, Mitchell and Conley more help. They failed to do that. They prized money and maintaining future draft picks over challenging for a title.

This is their window. Right here, right now.

They have no idea how long it will be open for. Conley is already 34. Bogdanovic 32. Mitchell appears a bit antsy and may look for a move in the near future. Then they are back rebuilding ... again. Yay.

Yay to low expectations and settling for less.

What do you think if Ingall's was healthy? Did they still need to make an "all in" move?

I'd say it was preferable rather than a necessity.

Ingles decline makes me hesitate but I still feel they had somewhat of a shot with a healthy Ingles but I believe they have no shot without Ingles or a replacement for Ingles.

There were two key areas for improvement:

(1) Backup PG who is more efficient / consistent an offensive player than Clarkson
(2) Two way forward with size to matchup defensively against physical wings / PFs.

Either one of those would have a made huge difference to their Championship hopes. I view Utah more as a team that needs fine tuning (role players) than major surgery (All-Star talent). They were so close.

[sgrogan]

Utah wins with balance and depth. Look at their forward rotation right now:

SF: Bogdanovic, 23yo 47% TS% NAW
PF: O'Neale, 35yo Rudy Gay

It is just not going to get it done. They don't have the horses.

They had to make a big push to improve their forward rotation to give Gobert, Mitchell and Conley more help. They failed to do that. They prized money and maintaining future draft picks over challenging for a title.

This is their window. Right here, right now.

They have no idea how long it will be open for. Conley is already 34. Bogdanovic 32. Mitchell appears a bit antsy and may look for a move in the near future. Then they are back rebuilding ... again. Yay.

Yay to low expectations and settling for less.

What do you think if Ingall's was healthy? Did they still need to make an "all in" move?

I'd say it was preferable rather than a necessity.

Ingles decline makes me hesitate but I still feel they had somewhat of a shot with a healthy Ingles but I believe they have no shot without Ingles or a replacement for Ingles.

There were two key areas for improvement:

(1) Backup PG who is more efficient / consistent an offensive player than Clarkson
(2) Two way forward with size to matchup defensively against physical wings / PFs.

Either one of those would have a made huge difference to their Championship hopes. I view Utah more as a team that needs fine tuning (role players) than major surgery (All-Star talent). They were so close.

I agree with what you are saying.

What if the rumors said Utah tried and couldn't make such a deal.
So they made the deal they did, because it was better than nothing?
Does that change anything in your mind?

[liam]

Utah wins with balance and depth. Look at their forward rotation right now:

SF: Bogdanovic, 23yo 47% TS% NAW
PF: O'Neale, 35yo Rudy Gay

It is just not going to get it done. They don't have the horses.

They had to make a big push to improve their forward rotation to give Gobert, Mitchell and Conley more help. They failed to do that. They prized money and maintaining future draft picks over challenging for a title.

This is their window. Right here, right now.

They have no idea how long it will be open for. Conley is already 34. Bogdanovic 32. Mitchell appears a bit antsy and may look for a move in the near future. Then they are back rebuilding ... again. Yay.

Yay to low expectations and settling for less.

What do you think if Ingall's was healthy? Did they still need to make an "all in" move?

I'd say it was preferable rather than a necessity.

Ingles decline makes me hesitate but I still feel they had somewhat of a shot with a healthy Ingles but I believe they have no shot without Ingles or a replacement for Ingles.

There were two key areas for improvement:

(1) Backup PG who is more efficient / consistent an offensive player than Clarkson
(2) Two way forward with size to matchup defensively against physical wings / PFs.

Either one of those would have a made huge difference to their Championship hopes. I view Utah more as a team that needs fine tuning (role players) than major surgery (All-Star talent). They were so close.

I agree with what you are saying.

What if the rumors said Utah tried and couldn't make such a deal.
So they made the deal they did, because it was better than nothing?
Does that change anything in your mind?

Trading an injured player that you weren't going to resign for something is a plus.

[Who]

Utah wins with balance and depth. Look at their forward rotation right now:

SF: Bogdanovic, 23yo 47% TS% NAW
PF: O'Neale, 35yo Rudy Gay

It is just not going to get it done. They don't have the horses.

They had to make a big push to improve their forward rotation to give Gobert, Mitchell and Conley more help. They failed to do that. They prized money and maintaining future draft picks over challenging for a title.

This is their window. Right here, right now.

They have no idea how long it will be open for. Conley is already 34. Bogdanovic 32. Mitchell appears a bit antsy and may look for a move in the near future. Then they are back rebuilding ... again. Yay.

Yay to low expectations and settling for less.

What do you think if Ingall's was healthy? Did they still need to make an "all in" move?

I'd say it was preferable rather than a necessity.

Ingles decline makes me hesitate but I still feel they had somewhat of a shot with a healthy Ingles but I believe they have no shot without Ingles or a replacement for Ingles.

There were two key areas for improvement:

(1) Backup PG who is more efficient / consistent an offensive player than Clarkson
(2) Two way forward with size to matchup defensively against physical wings / PFs.

Either one of those would have a made huge difference to their Championship hopes. I view Utah more as a team that needs fine tuning (role players) than major surgery (All-Star talent). They were so close.

I agree with what you are saying.

What if the rumors said Utah tried and couldn't make such a deal.
So they made the deal they did, because it was better than nothing?
Does that change anything in your mind?

Trading an injured player that you weren't going to resign for something is a plus.

Yes, something is better than nothing. NAW is an interesting multi-year project for them to develop.

I have a hard time believing they were unable to find a better trade. It is one thing to fail in the market when you are looking for an All-Star - only so many of them - but there are far more trading options when you are looking for just a good rotation player.

This was a failure.