Report: Cavs interested in Schroder; Mavs aren’t

[sgrogan]

You can't just throw out things that don't fit your narrative and then include things that do. The fact is that the Celtics have beaten them multiple times, and without Brown. That matters.

You can't just throw out things that don't fit your narrative and then include things that do. The fact is that the Celtics have been them multiple times, and without Brown. That matters.

And I'm doing that ... how?

If I was like "Yeah the Cavs have a 3-1 record against the Celts this season!" but then I go "Oh well, who cares that the Celts have a 2-1 record against the Bucks ..." that would be an example of what you're talking about.


The overall Cavs record is much better than the Celts. They also have a significantly better point differential.  They've been a better team all season.

You're correct that the Celts have done okay against them in head to head matchups this season.  The reason I don't put a lot of stock in that sort of evidence is that I think we've seen many times over the years that teams might play tight in the regular season despite a disparity in talent or record, but the playoffs are a different story.  I also think it's fraught to point to individual game samples, or samples of 3-4 games, in a season in which players are out so often due to COVID.


I just don't trust this Celtics team to do anything with consistency, which would include winning 4 out of 7 in a playoff series against a competent opponent.

I would agree that the Celts probably would have a better shot against the Cavs than if they were matched up with the Bucks, Heat, or Nets.  Given the Cavs' youth, I think it might end up going 6 or 7 games.  Perhaps it would be one of those series where the home team wins comfortably each time.


I want to circle back and restate my original point here, just so that it's clear. The Celtics are very likely to be in the play-in. They will have to win at least one, maybe two games just to be in the playoffs. Once there, they will not have homecourt advantage, and they will likely play a team that has a much better overall record and point differential.  It is also quite likely that their opponent will have more talent, more experience, and a much better coach. 

The Cavs are arguably an exception to that last point.  Even so, because of all of the above, I just don't put much value on the idea of the Celts making the playoffs, and I don't think the playoffs should factor into any personnel decisions the team has to make at the deadline.

You may be right, but I don't think its so clear cut.
Cavs, Heat, and Bucks are better. Only the Cavs have had a tougher schedule.
76's, nets, and Bulls are worse, all have had an easier schedule.

We play Atlanta 3 times, starting tonight, and Detroit 4 times. I think the record in these games will determine our seeding.

[PhoSita]

Sure but the playoffs are absolutely about top end talent and in that Boston is superior.  I'd absolutely expect Boston to beat Cleveland in a playoff series because Tatum is BY FAR the best player on either team. 

are we talking 50/40/90 Jayson Tatum going off for 50 points on the regular or the guy we've had for the vast majority of this season?

Both would make Moranis' statement true

hard disagree

if Tatum's shot is off I think there's a strong argument that Mobley has a bigger positive impact on the game for his team. He's been an absolute game changer for them on defense.


The Cavs were 26th on defense last season.

This season they are 3rd.

The biggest difference in their roster is Mobley.

Mobley is nearly as much a game-changer on offence, except in the negative. To suggest he has a bigger positive impact than Tatum is laughable.

Cavs were 28th in offense last season

Cavs are tied for 13th so far this season

doesn't really seem like Mobley is a huge albatross on offense

it does look like the Cavs score at a higher rate when Mobley is off the floor, but I would hazard a guess that has something to do with their bench being good at scoring.

Celts don't have that issue.

[sgrogan]

Why not Rondo?
Schoeder into their DPE for a decent 2nd
Rondo into a portion of one of our expiring TPE for a protected 2nd that doesn't convey.

I think we would get a TPE for Schoeder?
No need for roster machinations. Rondo is a downgrade, but we get under the tax, and he could play here.

For both the contacts are expiring.

I don't think this blocks us from other deals, and we get some insurance, if other deals don't materialize. Maybe we get the last Playoff Rondo.

[Who]

The Cavs are a borderline playoff team that has played over their heads thus far. Not impressed by them. No fear about playing them in a playoff series. They would be a dream matchup for a lower seed. They are there for the taking.

[gouki88]

Sure but the playoffs are absolutely about top end talent and in that Boston is superior.  I'd absolutely expect Boston to beat Cleveland in a playoff series because Tatum is BY FAR the best player on either team. 

are we talking 50/40/90 Jayson Tatum going off for 50 points on the regular or the guy we've had for the vast majority of this season?

Both would make Moranis' statement true

hard disagree

if Tatum's shot is off I think there's a strong argument that Mobley has a bigger positive impact on the game for his team. He's been an absolute game changer for them on defense.


The Cavs were 26th on defense last season.

This season they are 3rd.

The biggest difference in their roster is Mobley.

Mobley is nearly as much a game-changer on offence, except in the negative. To suggest he has a bigger positive impact than Tatum is laughable.

Cavs were 28th in offense last season

Cavs are tied for 13th so far this season

doesn't really seem like Mobley is a huge albatross on offense

it does look like the Cavs score at a higher rate when Mobley is off the floor, but I would hazard a guess that has something to do with their bench being good at scoring.

Celts don't have that issue.

If you dug a little deeper and looked at some more of the analytics, you'd find that Jarrett Allen is the more positively impactful player. Kevin Love has also contributed to this, as when he comes in off the bench (often for Mobley) he provides an immense scoring punch. His offensive numbers (basic and advanced) have been awesome.

Nobody on the Cavaliers is nearly as good as Tatum.

[celticsclay]

About $900k over.

Wow, no kidding.  So basically Yabu's dead salary.

Yabu is also an end of bench servicable player in the nba in my opinion. I’m seen him play a few times in the euroleague.

[PhoSita]

Nobody on the Cavaliers is nearly as good as Tatum.

I feel like on this topic this keeps coming back to you just making this kind of blanket statement as though it conclusively settles the matter.


Tatum is in theory a more talented and more productive player than anybody on the Cavs right now. Absolutely.

When he's shooting 30% from three and around 40% from the field overall, I just don't think he's that good. 

We all understand that Tatum's shooting for most of this season is an outlier in his career. Obviously somebody like Evan Mobley has a ways to go before he can be considered a better overall player than Tatum has been so far in his career overall.

But having a bigger impact on winning that the Tatum we've seen for much of this season is not nearly as high a bar to clear.  And I think when you look at the trio of Garland - Mobley - Allen, it's even harder to say that the Celts are clearly the more talented team.  As you say, Allen has had a very good season.

[Celtics2021]

Please take Schröder, Cleveland.

[pokeKingCurtis]

Yea he's talented but he just takes the air out of the ball so often

This game is a case in point. Defense brought us back. Schroeder just can't play the defense we want

[DrJasper]

Give me Rondo and a second and I'm happy!! We could use his play and his voice in.the locker room.

[Kiorrik]

Give me Rondo and a second and I'm happy!! We could use his play and his voice in.the locker room.

How funny would that be. Yet another Schröder/Rondo swap.

[Moranis]

Nobody on the Cavaliers is nearly as good as Tatum.

I feel like on this topic this keeps coming back to you just making this kind of blanket statement as though it conclusively settles the matter.


Tatum is in theory a more talented and more productive player than anybody on the Cavs right now. Absolutely.

When he's shooting 30% from three and around 40% from the field overall, I just don't think he's that good. 

We all understand that Tatum's shooting for most of this season is an outlier in his career. Obviously somebody like Evan Mobley has a ways to go before he can be considered a better overall player than Tatum has been so far in his career overall.

But having a bigger impact on winning that the Tatum we've seen for much of this season is not nearly as high a bar to clear.  And I think when you look at the trio of Garland - Mobley - Allen, it's even harder to say that the Celts are clearly the more talented team.  As you say, Allen has had a very good season.

you keep saying this stuff, but the simple reality is Tatum has a tremendous positive impact to the Celtics winning as his on/off differential per 100 possessions is +8.5.  The Cavs are actually better when Mobley is on the bench this year.  He doesn't impact much of anything.  Garland though is an elite 12.1 this year and Allen is a good 4.8.

[gouki88]

Nobody on the Cavaliers is nearly as good as Tatum.

I feel like on this topic this keeps coming back to you just making this kind of blanket statement as though it conclusively settles the matter.


Tatum is in theory a more talented and more productive player than anybody on the Cavs right now. Absolutely.

When he's shooting 30% from three and around 40% from the field overall, I just don't think he's that good. 

We all understand that Tatum's shooting for most of this season is an outlier in his career. Obviously somebody like Evan Mobley has a ways to go before he can be considered a better overall player than Tatum has been so far in his career overall.

But having a bigger impact on winning that the Tatum we've seen for much of this season is not nearly as high a bar to clear.  And I think when you look at the trio of Garland - Mobley - Allen, it's even harder to say that the Celts are clearly the more talented team.  As you say, Allen has had a very good season.

you keep saying this stuff, but the simple reality is Tatum has a tremendous positive impact to the Celtics winning as his on/off differential per 100 possessions is +8.5.  The Cavs are actually better when Mobley is on the bench this year.  He doesn't impact much of anything.  Garland though is an elite 12.1 this year and Allen is a good 4.8.

Yeah, it's just nonsense to really try and argue otherwise. It's weird for us to be in agreement, so it must be true

[pokeKingCurtis]

My body is ready...

[Roy H.]

Dallas is exploring potential roster upgrades through this route, but sources say acquiring Boston’s Dennis Schröder — whose expiring $5.9 million salary would fit comfortably into the exception created by trading Josh Richardson to the Celtics in July — is not in the club’s plans.  – via Marc Stein @ marcstein.substack.com