Report: Cavs interested in Schroder; Mavs aren’t

[footey]

Trade Schroeder & who going play point? Smart? Ugh! Playoff will be harder to reach

"the playoffs" at this point are looking like a play-in game (or two) followed by a 1st round beat down.



if the Cavs offer a couple seconds or a protected 1st for Schroder I'd call that into the league office right now

Let's say the Cavs finish 2nd (based on performance to date and remaining strength of schedule, that is the most likely outcome relative to other placement), and Boston finishes with the 7th seed.  You think that it will very likely be a beatdown of Boston by Cleveland?  I don't.  I think the only team that we should fear a beatdown from are the Nets, assuming that Durant returns and Harden recovers from his latest hamstring injury. I think we match up pretty well vs the Bucks and, if the prior contest with them is an indication, the Heat.  Maybe I would worry about the Sixers, but not a beatdown by them.

I like the optimism, but I'm skeptical that a team that has essentially been .500 the past two seasons is going to get things together and win a playoff series on the road.  I don't know what "beat down" means exactly, but it it implies a playoff series that is never really in doubt, that's what I forsee.

Yeah, I'm still riding that "two game blowout winning streak" high, let me enjoy it while it lasts!!

[PhoSita]

I like the optimism, but I'm skeptical that a team that has essentially been .500 the past two seasons is going to get things together and win a playoff series on the road.  I don't know what "beat down" means exactly, but it it implies a playoff series that is never really in doubt, that's what I forsee.

right -- a series that is not genuinely competitive, whether it goes 4, 5, or 6 games.


on paper Cleveland might seem like a potentially feasible matchup.  they are very young and have similar strengths and weaknesses (elite defense, average at best offense).

but like Roy said, the Cavs are 10 games over .500 and the Celts have been stuck around .500 forever now. I don't think there's any good reason to think it would be an especially close series, ultimately.


plus, there's a very good chance if the Celts get past the play-in they'd be playing against the Bucks, Nets, or Heat. any of those teams would absolutely wipe the floor with this Celts team.

[Vermont Green]

I don't understand why they would want Schroder.  Garland is their PG and he is good.  Rondo is the back up.  What they need is a wing.  They are playing Okoro at SG and Markkanen at SF.  Richardson would actually suit them pretty well.  Langford fits also.

Could there be a trade that started with Richardson and Markkanen?

[jpotter33]

I like the optimism, but I'm skeptical that a team that has essentially been .500 the past two seasons is going to get things together and win a playoff series on the road.  I don't know what "beat down" means exactly, but it it implies a playoff series that is never really in doubt, that's what I forsee.

right -- a series that is not genuinely competitive, whether it goes 4, 5, or 6 games.


on paper Cleveland might seem like a potentially feasible matchup.  they are very young and have similar strengths and weaknesses (elite defense, average at best offense).

but like Roy said, the Cavs are 10 games over .500 and the Celts have been stuck around .500 forever now. I don't think there's any good reason to think it would be an especially close series, ultimately.


plus, there's a very good chance if the Celts get past the play-in they'd be playing against the Bucks, Nets, or Heat. any of those teams would absolutely wipe the floor with this Celts team.

You forgetting the fact that we’re 2-1 against Milwaukee this year (all three being very close games - and our loss being a fourth quarter Christmas Day meltdown) and spanked Miami to be 1-0 against them this year? I think that’s a major exaggeration to make that argument. We’ve got our problems for sure, but they’re in fourth quarter collapses that are potentially fixable. Saying we’re getting “wiped” by those teams is ridiculous, especially given that we’ve traditionally matched up well with both teams if we’re fully healthy.

[sgrogan]

Would like to see Schoeder for Rondo, Dean Wade, Dylan Windler trade.  With Windler we save about half a mil, without him, about 2.5 mil.  Rondo is expiring, and the two W's both have another year left.
The W's are both HBIQ players, good passers, and "great shooters"!  I watch alot of Cavs BB here in Ohio (no LP), and think these guys would really bring value and skill to our young team.  Believe Cavs do it to get Schroeder as they will be deep in playoff mix this year, and for years to come!

We don't have to take any salary back, because Schroder's salary would fit entirely within their new Disabled Player Exception.  I would have some interest in D. Wade, though.  Gotta love that name, but he's also made 18 starts this year.

We don’t have to take salary back, but the Cavs only have a couple million in room to stay under the tax, so they may ask us to take salary on as part of the deal.

Tricky.  Where are we on the tax, assuming JB doesn't make the All-Star team?

About $900k over.  The Cavs will probably want to send out two players, as that would keep them under the tax and leave them with enough space to afford a buyout with an open roster spot.  My vote is Rondo and Ed Davis, because those two make the minimum, aren’t owed anything next year, and the C’s could get an exception for all of Schröder’s contract.  We’d save enough that we could afford to just cut Fernando.

I don't think that's exactly right.  Here is what Hollinger wrote after the Junacho Trade:

"Boston is $2.7 million into the tax following this trade, but that figure includes $1.9 million in incentives for Jaylen Brown that seem unlikely to come to fruition"

I think JB has 2 incentives 1 for All-Star and 1 for games played, both are just under $1m (totaling $1.9m).  He could still hit the games played and I think the team will operate as if he will hit that because sitting him to avoid the bonus if he's healthy would poison the relationship.  So based on that assumption the Cs are going to operate as if they are $1.7-1.8m over the cap.

This is largely incorrect.  JB does have two incentives.  One is based on team performance (wins and playoff success) and also has the games played component (He has to play 63ish games and the team has to do well).  The other is an All-Star game/All-NBA component.  The team performance bonus is considered unlikely because of last year, and given how the season is going, is also unlikely this year.  It’s a shade under $1 million.  The All-Star bonus is currently considered likely, because he made the team last year, and is $1.9 million.  If he misses the game, he could still get it via All-NBA, but that again is pretty unlikely given the trajectory of his and the team’s season.

If the Celtics want to be completely conservative, and make sure that they avoid the tax even if they win the title and JB is all-NBA, they’re about $3.8 million over.  However, if they’re being realistic, or willing to pay the tax in such an unlikely scenario, thenJB won’t get any of his ~$2.9 million bonus, especially once all-star rosters are finalized.

EDIT: To provide additional clarity, JBs team performance incentive is tiered.  He gets half if the team wins enough games (49), so the C’s would have to finish on a 24-9 stretch from this point forward, and the rest if they advance far in the playoffs (maybe even have to win the title, that target’s a little unclear to me).  But he could get half of his team performance incentive and the C’s would be at $1.3 million over or so, which is still Bruno territory in terms of contracts that need to be moved.

More clarification on the JB All-Star bonus:

Jaylen Brown has a sizable bonus ($1.446 million) for making the All-Star team, and league sources say it applies even if he is selected as an injury substitute. That’s a big problem for Boston, because the trade deadline is Feb. 10 … after All-Star selections have been made, yes, but 10 days before the game itself, thus leaving ample time for Brown to be selected as a sub. 3 days ago – via John Hollinger @ The Athletic

Or not. There is one other tricky piece of fine print, I’m told: Brown’s All-Star bonus also only applies if he plays 65 games. So … if the Celtics get rope-a-doped by an unlikely All-Star bonus for Brown that sends them over the line, would they dare to sit Brown out four games toward the end of the season to get themselves back under? 3 days ago – via John Hollinger @ The Athletic

Brown has missed 14 games; if he misses 18 total he becomes ineligible for the bonus, even if he's an All-Star.

This is so murky.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/jaylen-brown-20208/
Spotrac has it as 480K for 65 games and 1.4M for all-star, not 1.9M for 65 games and all-star.
Last year he earned the 440k for the games played (58  games played pro-rates to 66 in an 82 game schedule)
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/nba-rumors-heres-financial-breakdown-jaylen-browns-contract-extension
The original reporting had some linkage to team play, 49 wins and second round of the playoffs.

I'd love to see the actual "ands" and "ors" in the contract.
The original reporting

[jpotter33]

Trade Schroeder & who going play point? Smart? Ugh! Playoff will be harder to reach

"the playoffs" at this point are looking like a play-in game (or two) followed by a 1st round beat down.



if the Cavs offer a couple seconds or a protected 1st for Schroder I'd call that into the league office right now

Let's say the Cavs finish 2nd (based on performance to date and remaining strength of schedule, that is the most likely outcome relative to other placement), and Boston finishes with the 7th seed.  You think that it will very likely be a beatdown of Boston by Cleveland?  I don't.  I think the only team that we should fear a beatdown from are the Nets, assuming that Durant returns and Harden recovers from his latest hamstring injury. I think we match up pretty well vs the Bucks and, if the prior contest with them is an indication, the Heat.  Maybe I would worry about the Sixers, but not a beatdown by them.

I like the optimism, but I'm skeptical that a team that has essentially been .500 the past two seasons is going to get things together and win a playoff series on the road.  I don't know what "beat down" means exactly, but it it implies a playoff series that is never really in doubt, that's what I forsee.

Against Cleveland? Really?

I’d put a lot of money down in Boston in that matchup, even being on the road. Yeah, we have issues, but in the playoffs top end talent and defense wins. Both are excellent defensively, but our top end talent at this point is significantly greater than Cleveland. Tatum is in a tier quite a bit above Garland or Mobley (at least right now), and I argue Brown is an equitable if not higher level talent right now than those two, especially when factoring in playoff experience.

[Roy H.]

Trade Schroeder & who going play point? Smart? Ugh! Playoff will be harder to reach

"the playoffs" at this point are looking like a play-in game (or two) followed by a 1st round beat down.



if the Cavs offer a couple seconds or a protected 1st for Schroder I'd call that into the league office right now

Let's say the Cavs finish 2nd (based on performance to date and remaining strength of schedule, that is the most likely outcome relative to other placement), and Boston finishes with the 7th seed.  You think that it will very likely be a beatdown of Boston by Cleveland?  I don't.  I think the only team that we should fear a beatdown from are the Nets, assuming that Durant returns and Harden recovers from his latest hamstring injury. I think we match up pretty well vs the Bucks and, if the prior contest with them is an indication, the Heat.  Maybe I would worry about the Sixers, but not a beatdown by them.

I like the optimism, but I'm skeptical that a team that has essentially been .500 the past two seasons is going to get things together and win a playoff series on the road.  I don't know what "beat down" means exactly, but it it implies a playoff series that is never really in doubt, that's what I forsee.

Against Cleveland? Really?

I’d put a lot of money down in Boston in that matchup, even being on the road. Yeah, we have issues, but in the playoffs top end talent and defense wins. Both are excellent defensively, but our top end talent at this point is significantly greater than Cleveland. Tatum is in a tier quite a bit above Garland or Mobley (at least right now), and I argue Brown is an equitable if not higher level talent right now than those two, especially when factoring in playoff experience.

I'm a big believer in "you are what your record says you are".  Right now, Cleveland is simply better than us.

[keevsnick]

Would like to see Schoeder for Rondo, Dean Wade, Dylan Windler trade.  With Windler we save about half a mil, without him, about 2.5 mil.  Rondo is expiring, and the two W's both have another year left.
The W's are both HBIQ players, good passers, and "great shooters"!  I watch alot of Cavs BB here in Ohio (no LP), and think these guys would really bring value and skill to our young team.  Believe Cavs do it to get Schroeder as they will be deep in playoff mix this year, and for years to come!

We don't have to take any salary back, because Schroder's salary would fit entirely within their new Disabled Player Exception.  I would have some interest in D. Wade, though.  Gotta love that name, but he's also made 18 starts this year.

We don’t have to take salary back, but the Cavs only have a couple million in room to stay under the tax, so they may ask us to take salary on as part of the deal.

Tricky.  Where are we on the tax, assuming JB doesn't make the All-Star team?

About $900k over.  The Cavs will probably want to send out two players, as that would keep them under the tax and leave them with enough space to afford a buyout with an open roster spot.  My vote is Rondo and Ed Davis, because those two make the minimum, aren’t owed anything next year, and the C’s could get an exception for all of Schröder’s contract.  We’d save enough that we could afford to just cut Fernando.

I don't think that's exactly right.  Here is what Hollinger wrote after the Junacho Trade:

"Boston is $2.7 million into the tax following this trade, but that figure includes $1.9 million in incentives for Jaylen Brown that seem unlikely to come to fruition"

I think JB has 2 incentives 1 for All-Star and 1 for games played, both are just under $1m (totaling $1.9m).  He could still hit the games played and I think the team will operate as if he will hit that because sitting him to avoid the bonus if he's healthy would poison the relationship.  So based on that assumption the Cs are going to operate as if they are $1.7-1.8m over the cap.

This is largely incorrect.  JB does have two incentives.  One is based on team performance (wins and playoff success) and also has the games played component (He has to play 63ish games and the team has to do well).  The other is an All-Star game/All-NBA component.  The team performance bonus is considered unlikely because of last year, and given how the season is going, is also unlikely this year.  It’s a shade under $1 million.  The All-Star bonus is currently considered likely, because he made the team last year, and is $1.9 million.  If he misses the game, he could still get it via All-NBA, but that again is pretty unlikely given the trajectory of his and the team’s season.

If the Celtics want to be completely conservative, and make sure that they avoid the tax even if they win the title and JB is all-NBA, they’re about $3.8 million over.  However, if they’re being realistic, or willing to pay the tax in such an unlikely scenario, thenJB won’t get any of his ~$2.9 million bonus, especially once all-star rosters are finalized.

EDIT: To provide additional clarity, JBs team performance incentive is tiered.  He gets half if the team wins enough games (49), so the C’s would have to finish on a 24-9 stretch from this point forward, and the rest if they advance far in the playoffs (maybe even have to win the title, that target’s a little unclear to me).  But he could get half of his team performance incentive and the C’s would be at $1.3 million over or so, which is still Bruno territory in terms of contracts that need to be moved.

More clarification on the JB All-Star bonus:

Jaylen Brown has a sizable bonus ($1.446 million) for making the All-Star team, and league sources say it applies even if he is selected as an injury substitute. That’s a big problem for Boston, because the trade deadline is Feb. 10 … after All-Star selections have been made, yes, but 10 days before the game itself, thus leaving ample time for Brown to be selected as a sub. 3 days ago – via John Hollinger @ The Athletic

Or not. There is one other tricky piece of fine print, I’m told: Brown’s All-Star bonus also only applies if he plays 65 games. So … if the Celtics get rope-a-doped by an unlikely All-Star bonus for Brown that sends them over the line, would they dare to sit Brown out four games toward the end of the season to get themselves back under? 3 days ago – via John Hollinger @ The Athletic

Brown has missed 14 games; if he misses 18 total he becomes ineligible for the bonus, even if he's an All-Star.

This is so murky.
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/jaylen-brown-20208/
Spotrac has it as 480K for 65 games and 1.4M for all-star, not 1.9M for 65 games and all-star.
Last year he earned the 440k for the games played (58  games played pro-rates to 66 in an 82 game schedule)
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/nba-rumors-heres-financial-breakdown-jaylen-browns-contract-extension
The original reporting had some linkage to team play, 49 wins and second round of the playoffs.

I'd love to see the actual "ands" and "ors" in the contract.
The original reporting

I would be VERY surprised if game played is linked to also being an all-star. My guess is those are two separate bonuses. Tho i could see games played linked to team success.

[Celtics2021]

Trade Schroeder & who going play point? Smart? Ugh! Playoff will be harder to reach

"the playoffs" at this point are looking like a play-in game (or two) followed by a 1st round beat down.



if the Cavs offer a couple seconds or a protected 1st for Schroder I'd call that into the league office right now

Let's say the Cavs finish 2nd (based on performance to date and remaining strength of schedule, that is the most likely outcome relative to other placement), and Boston finishes with the 7th seed.  You think that it will very likely be a beatdown of Boston by Cleveland?  I don't.  I think the only team that we should fear a beatdown from are the Nets, assuming that Durant returns and Harden recovers from his latest hamstring injury. I think we match up pretty well vs the Bucks and, if the prior contest with them is an indication, the Heat.  Maybe I would worry about the Sixers, but not a beatdown by them.

I like the optimism, but I'm skeptical that a team that has essentially been .500 the past two seasons is going to get things together and win a playoff series on the road.  I don't know what "beat down" means exactly, but it it implies a playoff series that is never really in doubt, that's what I forsee.

I get the pessimism, and don’t think it misplaced, but it’s a little easier to be optimistic this year relative to last year, for me at least.  Last year our record was much closer to our scoring differential.  It was a little worse than expected, but we were 6th in the conference in scoring differential and 7th in record, so by no measurement were we a top team.  This year, while the record has stayed the same, we’re 4th in the conference in scoring differential, and third when you take into account strength of schedule as well (which is useful midseason and with 4 games against the Pistons yet to be played).  Accordingly, our overall performance has been relatively better compared to last year, which means getting waxed by a higher ranked opponent is less likely.  Sure, we might not prevail because giving yourself a road series against a top 2 seed is a tough way to start, but I wouldn’t expect something like the Nets series last year, or the Cavs series in 2015.  If we were in the 7-8 game against Charlotte, I think the 1 seed would be rooting for us to win that game so they could avoid the matchup.

I do think the best thing for the team long-term would be to sell off as many of Schröder, Richardson, Horford types as possible, get some future picks, dip down into the lottery for a season and try again next year.  (I know you want to move Smart but I think that’s best done in the off-season if it happens, which I would rather it didn’t). With such little stratification at the top of the standings, and a bunch of teams in the tax who are committed to the playoffs, it’s a sellers market.  But if we don’t go that route (and I don’t expect us to) I think we’ll see at least one competitive playoff series.  The difference between this team and the top teams of the conference is less.

[keevsnick]

Deleted

[keevsnick]

I like the optimism, but I'm skeptical that a team that has essentially been .500 the past two seasons is going to get things together and win a playoff series on the road.  I don't know what "beat down" means exactly, but it it implies a playoff series that is never really in doubt, that's what I forsee.

right -- a series that is not genuinely competitive, whether it goes 4, 5, or 6 games.


on paper Cleveland might seem like a potentially feasible matchup.  they are very young and have similar strengths and weaknesses (elite defense, average at best offense).

but like Roy said, the Cavs are 10 games over .500 and the Celts have been stuck around .500 forever now. I don't think there's any good reason to think it would be an especially close series, ultimately.


plus, there's a very good chance if the Celts get past the play-in they'd be playing against the Bucks, Nets, or Heat. any of those teams would absolutely wipe the floor with this Celts team.

You forgetting the fact that we’re 2-1 against Milwaukee this year (all three being very close games - and our loss being a fourth quarter Christmas Day meltdown) and spanked Miami to be 1-0 against them this year? I think that’s a major exaggeration to make that argument. We’ve got our problems for sure, but they’re in fourth quarter collapses that are potentially fixable. Saying we’re getting “wiped” by those teams is ridiculous, especially given that we’ve traditionally matched up well with both teams if we’re fully healthy.

One of those MIL games was a win in OT when MIL lacked Giannis, Middleton or Holiday.

[Moranis]

Trade Schroeder & who going play point? Smart? Ugh! Playoff will be harder to reach

"the playoffs" at this point are looking like a play-in game (or two) followed by a 1st round beat down.



if the Cavs offer a couple seconds or a protected 1st for Schroder I'd call that into the league office right now

Let's say the Cavs finish 2nd (based on performance to date and remaining strength of schedule, that is the most likely outcome relative to other placement), and Boston finishes with the 7th seed.  You think that it will very likely be a beatdown of Boston by Cleveland?  I don't.  I think the only team that we should fear a beatdown from are the Nets, assuming that Durant returns and Harden recovers from his latest hamstring injury. I think we match up pretty well vs the Bucks and, if the prior contest with them is an indication, the Heat.  Maybe I would worry about the Sixers, but not a beatdown by them.

I like the optimism, but I'm skeptical that a team that has essentially been .500 the past two seasons is going to get things together and win a playoff series on the road.  I don't know what "beat down" means exactly, but it it implies a playoff series that is never really in doubt, that's what I forsee.

Against Cleveland? Really?

I’d put a lot of money down in Boston in that matchup, even being on the road. Yeah, we have issues, but in the playoffs top end talent and defense wins. Both are excellent defensively, but our top end talent at this point is significantly greater than Cleveland. Tatum is in a tier quite a bit above Garland or Mobley (at least right now), and I argue Brown is an equitable if not higher level talent right now than those two, especially when factoring in playoff experience.

I'm a big believer in "you are what your record says you are".  Right now, Cleveland is simply better than us.

Sure but the playoffs are absolutely about top end talent and in that Boston is superior.  I'd absolutely expect Boston to beat Cleveland in a playoff series because Tatum is BY FAR the best player on either team.  That matter.  You need a guy that can take over a game offensively and Cleveland doesn't really have that guy.  They have great depth, but when the going gets tough, I wouldn't want to rely on Garland, Allen, Mobley, Markkanen, and Love to pull me through and get a bucket.  Sexton is the one guy that has the score at will potential for the Cavs and he is unlikely to be playing in the playoffs and even if he does at the pre-injury level that quickly.

[OhioGreen]

Apologies to our homies, but the Cavs are a top team in the league right now, and that's with losing Sexton AND Rubio for the season!  Their inside game destroys us with Allen, Love, Mobley, and Markannen, while Garland carves us into little pieces.  I'm telling you, these guys are GOOD!
Just because we finally blow out a team by 50, doesn't mean our .500 team is now good!  A Cavs-C's series wouldn't be that competitive.
The guys I advocate trading for, Wade and Windler are very low cost, but would instantly become some of our best reserves.  Leave them open for threes and they are MONEY, unlike most of our entire team!  You don't worry about taking back a little salary when you're getting high quality, low cost players.  They're exactly the kind of players we need to support the J's!

[jpotter33]

Trade Schroeder & who going play point? Smart? Ugh! Playoff will be harder to reach

"the playoffs" at this point are looking like a play-in game (or two) followed by a 1st round beat down.



if the Cavs offer a couple seconds or a protected 1st for Schroder I'd call that into the league office right now

Let's say the Cavs finish 2nd (based on performance to date and remaining strength of schedule, that is the most likely outcome relative to other placement), and Boston finishes with the 7th seed.  You think that it will very likely be a beatdown of Boston by Cleveland?  I don't.  I think the only team that we should fear a beatdown from are the Nets, assuming that Durant returns and Harden recovers from his latest hamstring injury. I think we match up pretty well vs the Bucks and, if the prior contest with them is an indication, the Heat.  Maybe I would worry about the Sixers, but not a beatdown by them.

I like the optimism, but I'm skeptical that a team that has essentially been .500 the past two seasons is going to get things together and win a playoff series on the road.  I don't know what "beat down" means exactly, but it it implies a playoff series that is never really in doubt, that's what I forsee.

Against Cleveland? Really?

I’d put a lot of money down in Boston in that matchup, even being on the road. Yeah, we have issues, but in the playoffs top end talent and defense wins. Both are excellent defensively, but our top end talent at this point is significantly greater than Cleveland. Tatum is in a tier quite a bit above Garland or Mobley (at least right now), and I argue Brown is an equitable if not higher level talent right now than those two, especially when factoring in playoff experience.

I'm a big believer in "you are what your record says you are".  Right now, Cleveland is simply better than us.

Yet, we’re 2-1 against them head to head (despite not having Brown for two of those games and only one game being in Boston) and have had a fairly more difficult game schedule thus far.

I don’t think the respective records have as much predictive value as you’re putting on them when considering a head to head playoff series. To me Boston is a clear but not major favorite in that series.

[Moranis]

I like the optimism, but I'm skeptical that a team that has essentially been .500 the past two seasons is going to get things together and win a playoff series on the road.  I don't know what "beat down" means exactly, but it it implies a playoff series that is never really in doubt, that's what I forsee.

right -- a series that is not genuinely competitive, whether it goes 4, 5, or 6 games.


on paper Cleveland might seem like a potentially feasible matchup.  they are very young and have similar strengths and weaknesses (elite defense, average at best offense).

but like Roy said, the Cavs are 10 games over .500 and the Celts have been stuck around .500 forever now. I don't think there's any good reason to think it would be an especially close series, ultimately.


plus, there's a very good chance if the Celts get past the play-in they'd be playing against the Bucks, Nets, or Heat. any of those teams would absolutely wipe the floor with this Celts team.

You forgetting the fact that we’re 2-1 against Milwaukee this year (all three being very close games - and our loss being a fourth quarter Christmas Day meltdown) and spanked Miami to be 1-0 against them this year? I think that’s a major exaggeration to make that argument. We’ve got our problems for sure, but they’re in fourth quarter collapses that are potentially fixable. Saying we’re getting “wiped” by those teams is ridiculous, especially given that we’ve traditionally matched up well with both teams if we’re fully healthy.

One of those MIL games was a win in OT when MIL lacked Giannis, Middleton or Holiday.

Holiday played in the OT game, but Giannis and Middleton did not.  of course Brown was also out for Boston.  The win in December both teams were basically at full strength and the game Boston lost the Bucks had their big 3 as did Boston, but Schroder, Grant, and Horford were all out so Langford was starting and Hernangomez and Parker played around 30 minutes combined.