JKJB Trade Ideas

[GreenlyGreeny]

Some axioms most of us can agree with at this time:

A. The supporting cast is not good enough to consistently win against good teams.

B. The supporting cast is probably not good enough to trade around with our picks in order to have a good enough supporting cast to consistently win against good teams.

C. There is no cap room given the supporting cast.

The controversial idea:

D. Given A, B and C, in order to have a good enough supporting cast in the future around Tatum that can win consistently against good teams, we must deal JB. Plenty of such ideas have been proposed to that effect, ideas to change us so we can move away from this .500 destiny of the past 100+ games.

The purpose of this thread is for the JKJB crew to propose ideas to overcome A, B and C (put differently, disprove B).

[Who]

There is no point in trading your star for role players to fix your supporting cast because it won't matter if your supporting cast is good enough if your core / your top end talent is no longer good enough to compete for a Championship.

This is a step backwards. A large step backwards.

[A Future of Stevens]

I love Jaylen Brown, and you have to move him if one of the bonafide super duper stars comes available. Short of that, you don't make sideways moves for chemistry. You just don't. Talent wins in the NBA.

Considering our Stars are 25 and 23, play at an elite level, and both play the hardest position to find true talent at, maybe we shouldn't jump ship just yet. Considering Brown won't be a FA until 2024, we shouldn't dump him immediately.

We need to find a true connective tissue player. Good defense, others are better playing with them, etc. Smart tries his hardest, but he isn't truly that guy. I don't know where that guy comes from, but that doesn't mean we stop looking.

The old adage holds true. You don't trade a dollar bill for 2 quarters, 2 dimes and a nickel.

[Vermont Green]

There is no point in trading your star for role players to fix your supporting cast because it won't matter if your supporting cast is good enough if your core / your top end talent is no longer good enough to compete for a Championship.

This is a step backwards. A large step backwards.

Well said and people need to think about what Who is saying here.  It is true that we have a fair number of soft spots in the "supporting cast" but it is much harder to find stars than it is supporting cast.

I have not moved on from Brown.  There are a few players I would consider trading Brown for, like maybe Towns, but the list is pretty short and no way I trade Brown as means to upgrade the supporting cast.

[Roy H.]

Haven’t we seen what happens when you lose top-tier talent without adequately replacing it?

The reason we’re not competitive is because we’ve seen our elite talent walk or get traded.  The answer to that problem isn’t to trade even more elite talent.

I’m hoping the answer involves packaging Horford, Smart, and several picks for another all-star.  The only guy beyond the Jays that I care about is Timelord, although I do think Nesmith will develop into at least a reliable bench shooter.

[nickagneta]

Haven’t we seen what happens when you lose top-tier talent without adequately replacing it?

The reason we’re not competitive is because we’ve seen our elite talent walk or get traded.  The answer to that problem isn’t to trade even more elite talent.

I’m hoping the answer involves packaging Horford, Smart, and several picks for another all-star.  The only guy beyond the Jays that I care about is Timelord, although I do think Nesmith will develop into at least a reliable bench shooter.

Malcolm Brogdon becomes available at draft time. If Indy is tanking and wants to get rid of his contract, does Horford and the 2021 and 2025 pick for Brogdon make sense. Indy could waive and stretch Horford saving them huge long term money and over $17 million off their cap next year. Maybe send them Yam's rights and a couple million dollars, too

Then, depending on if  Sactown gets involved in the Simmons trade, maybe Harrison Barnes or Buddy Hield becomes available and you move parts and salary for on of them. I guess Smart can become a centerpiece in that, especially if the Kings move Fox in any Simmons deal. Also, more picks go out.

Then see if you can sign Montrezl Harrell to a deal. And try to convince Schröder to resign at the $7.1 figure because all he is getting offered is taxpayer MLEs.

Could a starting 5 of Brogdon/Brown/Tatum/Barnes/Timelord or Brogdon/Hield/Brown/Tatum/Timelord with Harrell/Grant/Schröder/Richardson and maybe a vet min guy or two fix the surrounding cast?

Brogdon becomes that good sized, good defending, very good distributor and offensive initiator that can shoot that the team needs and Barnes at PF or Hield at SG can be the third scorer that hits from three at a great rate. Both open the floor for the Jays.

Harrell/Schröder/Richardson certainly gives the bench some offensive pop without sacrificing much defense.

I kinda like it.

[18isGREATERthan72]

Getting rid of Brown to shore up the rest of the roster just leaves us with less top end talent.

We've seen time and time again what happens in the NBA when you get 2 superstars / 3 all star level players together...  You get ring chasing vets to sign for cheap.

If we can collect a third all star level player, then high quality role players will find themselves in Boston.

Get rid of Brown, and you're just getting those role players that would sign to a contender anyway, but now you're down an all star.

[smokeablount]

Haven’t we seen what happens when you lose top-tier talent without adequately replacing it?

The reason we’re not competitive is because we’ve seen our elite talent walk or get traded.  The answer to that problem isn’t to trade even more elite talent.

I’m hoping the answer involves packaging Horford, Smart, and several picks for another all-star.  The only guy beyond the Jays that I care about is Timelord, although I do think Nesmith will develop into at least a reliable bench shooter.

Malcolm Brogdon becomes available at draft time. If Indy is tanking and wants to get rid of his contract, does Horford and the 2021 and 2025 pick for Brogdon make sense. Indy could waive and stretch Horford saving them huge long term money and over $17 million off their cap next year. Maybe send them Yam's rights and a couple million dollars, too

Then, depending on if  Sactown gets involved in the Simmons trade, maybe Harrison Barnes or Buddy Hield becomes available and you move parts and salary for on of them. I guess Smart can become a centerpiece in that, especially if the Kings move Fox in any Simmons deal. Also, more picks go out.

Then see if you can sign Montrezl Harrell to a deal. And try to convince Schröder to resign at the $7.1 figure because all he is getting offered is taxpayer MLEs.

Could a starting 5 of Brogdon/Brown/Tatum/Barnes/Timelord or Brogdon/Hield/Brown/Tatum/Timelord with Harrell/Grant/Schröder/Richardson and maybe a vet min guy or two fix the surrounding cast?

Brogdon becomes that good sized, good defending, very good distributor and offensive initiator that can shoot that the team needs and Barnes at PF or Hield at SG can be the third scorer that hits from three at a great rate. Both open the floor for the Jays.

Harrell/Schröder/Richardson certainly gives the bench some offensive pop without sacrificing much defense.

I kinda like it.

Brogdon would be at the top of my list of reasonable targets. We know Danny liked Barnes, and Hield offers some useful playmaking in addition to lights out shooting. I like it.

[slamtheking]

Haven’t we seen what happens when you lose top-tier talent without adequately replacing it?

The reason we’re not competitive is because we’ve seen our elite talent walk or get traded.  The answer to that problem isn’t to trade even more elite talent.

I’m hoping the answer involves packaging Horford, Smart, and several picks for another all-star.  The only guy beyond the Jays that I care about is Timelord, although I do think Nesmith will develop into at least a reliable bench shooter.

Malcolm Brogdon becomes available at draft time. If Indy is tanking and wants to get rid of his contract, does Horford and the 2021 and 2025 pick for Brogdon make sense. Indy could waive and stretch Horford saving them huge long term money and over $17 million off their cap next year. Maybe send them Yam's rights and a couple million dollars, too

Then, depending on if  Sactown gets involved in the Simmons trade, maybe Harrison Barnes or Buddy Hield becomes available and you move parts and salary for on of them. I guess Smart can become a centerpiece in that, especially if the Kings move Fox in any Simmons deal. Also, more picks go out.

Then see if you can sign Montrezl Harrell to a deal. And try to convince Schröder to resign at the $7.1 figure because all he is getting offered is taxpayer MLEs.

Could a starting 5 of Brogdon/Brown/Tatum/Barnes/Timelord or Brogdon/Hield/Brown/Tatum/Timelord with Harrell/Grant/Schröder/Richardson and maybe a vet min guy or two fix the surrounding cast?

Brogdon becomes that good sized, good defending, very good distributor and offensive initiator that can shoot that the team needs and Barnes at PF or Hield at SG can be the third scorer that hits from three at a great rate. Both open the floor for the Jays.

Harrell/Schröder/Richardson certainly gives the bench some offensive pop without sacrificing much defense.

I kinda like it.

I like that plan.  I don't think it'll happen but I like it quite a bit.  Assumption is that with that small front court we'd also be retaining Kanter (or able to get a cheap yet serviceable center).  not seeing where Romeo, PP or Nesmith fit with those trades --> is the idea they're going out in the trades or that they'll still be on the roster developing?   
AL + Yam + 2 picks for Brogdon
Smart and PP/Romeo/Nesmith and a pick maybe for Hield or Barnes.
hope for a Scroder and Enes resigning and a Harrell signing?  not sure how we get Harrell unless that large MLE is usable at that point.

would like to hold on to 2 of our prospects with all those picks going out since we won't be able to replenish the roster with young/cheap talent without them. 

[todd_days_41]

I’m hoping the answer involves packaging Horford, Smart, and several picks for another all-star.  The only guy beyond the Jays that I care about is Timelord, although I do think Nesmith will develop into at least a reliable bench shooter.

I agree with this. Cs need to be shopping everyone but the Jays and RWIII to see what they can net. I'd prefer to keep Grant W, but if including him to get an upgrade is necessary (considering alot of our other "assets" suck), then so be it.

[BruceBanner18]

To JKJB and get better in roster spots 3-5 the answer almost has to include moving Marcus and consolidating him with other assets. Hopefully a semi-desperate team wanting to win now pays a premium for his defense and toughness. Atlanta, Sac, Memphis and Dallas all feel like possibilities.

My win win win trade would send Marcus to Atlanta for Collins... I've been wanting this trade for two years. I think Smart would be perfect next to Young. I also love Jerami Grant's fit in ATL. He's what they want Collins to be. Whereas Collins fits Boston perfect as a 3rd prong in a big 3 that could play 2, 3, 4 with TL or 3, 4, 5 with Collins as stretch small ball center. So based on current media smoke something like this would be best case imo.

BOS Out: Smart, Horford, FRP
BOS In: Collins, Wright

ATL Out: Collins, Reddish, Gallinary, Wright, FRP
ATL Ins: Grant, Smart, Horford

DET Out: Grant
Detroit In: Reddish, Gallinary, 2 FRP

Boston then is truly a PG away with Brown, Tatum, Collins, Williams as the starters.

ATL is more balanced with Young, Smart, Hunter, Grant, Capella.

DET gets Reddish and 2 FRP to build around Cunningham

Who says no to that deal?

[Rosco917]

I do it too...I put together unbalanced trades using multiples of our "disposable players" along with (a hefty dose of prayer) to entice some NBA team into trading us that illusive player who will become our "third star."

(Smart and xxxx and xxxx and two first's will perhaps get us (fill in the blank) and everything will be just peachy.) Forgetting that other teams GM also has a brain. 

Then I look at the Lakers. When they signed Russell Westbrook in desperation to appease the King, and added him to the core of Lebron and Davis, and even Melo... and I knew it wouldn't work. The Lakers have flashes of success and then again fall to .500. Sound familiar? The chemistry on the team just isn't right. They don't work as a unit... they just took a shot.

Then I look at the Phoenix Suns. Before they signed Chris Paul, that team was absolutly lost. Look at their roster minus CP and you would be hard pressed to choose them over our current roster talent-wise. A single all-star player, a good young center and a supporting cast no better than ours. They have one of the best records in the NBA.

We have several school's of thought on this site. 1. Add another star to our J's and that will solve our problems like magic. 2. Or consider the option that Jayson and Jaylen do not play well enough together as a unit, and trade one.

I'm confused as to which school of thought I agree too. But I know one thing and that is basketball is a sport that requires team chemistry to win consistently. 

I really hope this franchise chooses the correct path and soon, because in a few short seasons Jayson Tatum will be an unrestricted free agent, and in his prime... AND the Lakers will come calling for sure, they know he's a fan.

I'd hate to lose him without ever taking a big bit of the apple. Patience may not be an option in our case. Crap or get off the pot.   

[GreenlyGreeny]

I really hope this franchise chooses the correct path and soon,

Same. I was quite confident that clearly the path had to be JT + JB, but the chemistry is not exactly like what we see in Phoenix, Utah, Golden State or even Chicago.

because in a few short seasons Jayson Tatum will be an unrestricted free agent, and in his prime... AND the Lakers will come calling for sure, they know he's a fan.

This is a huge concern, particularly since that would pretty much coincide with LeBron’s retirement, one would imagine.

[LilRip]

As much as I’ve talked about trading JB, you do NOT want to trade JB for a bunch of role players like Brogdon, etc. JB and JT can play together simply because allstars and talented players can play together. Even Kyrie and Harden can play together and make a team better despite their ball-centric ways. You trade JB if you’re getting a stud back who can better maximize Tatum. It’s not unthinkable that there is a player out there who can get more out of JT and vice versa.

I think a player with strong playmaking skills would be ideal. Names like Ben Simmons, Lillard, Murray, and Sabonis have been brought up in recent days and I honestly like the fit of all of these, on paper. They’re multi-faceted and intelligent playmakers who can get Tatum his spots. How well do they fit in with the rest of the team? Well, let’s worry about the role players afterwards once the core of the team is set.

The C’s were once overflowing with talent (with Kyrie and whatnot) and I think had some of those groups been allowed more years of staying together, they might’ve broken thru and reached the finals. Unfortunately, chemistry issues, disastrous injuries and egos all got in the way and we are where we are. We can’t afford to hemorrhage more talent and lose JB for lesser parts.

[Kiorrik]

Do we legit think that if we swap JB for a Simmons or a Dame or a Murray or Simmons, that's not just a LATERAL move?

Honestly. That's the most sideways crap I've seen.

2 stars, does NOT make a team.

You need 3.

JKJB and get a third. We're the Celtics, not the Hornets.