Build your contender around the Jays

[LilRip]

Just for fun, let’s assume we can trade for/sign almost any player in the league but by default, Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown need to DEFINITIVELY be the 2 best players on the team. The team-building restrictions are:

- No all-stars or all-NBA from the past 3 years (KD, Beal, Kyrie, Kawhi, Zion, Conley, Harden, Lavine, Mitchell, Randle, Vooch, Booker, AD, Embiid, Lebron, Giannis, Steph, Luka, Jokic, PG13, Gobert, Lillard, Sabonis, CP3, Simmons, Westbrook, Siakam, Kemba, Trae, Bam, Butler, Ingram, Lowry, Middleton, KAT, Klay, Wade, Aldridge, Blake, D’Lo)
- No award winners from the past 3 years (Lamelo, Clarkson, Ja, Harrell, Lou Will)
- No one from the “top 3 in playoffs minutes” of conference finalists in the past 3 years (Jrue, Collins, Bogdan, Herro, Brook Lopez, Ayton, Reggie Jackson, Murray, KCP, Jerami Grant, Draymond, McCollum, Freedom

So, who would fill out the remaining 7-8 players on your rotation?

[Jvalin]

PG: Haliburton/Lonzo/prime George Hill
SG: Brown
SF: Anunoby/Hayward/Harrison Barnes/Joe Ingles
PF: Tatum
C: Jarrett Allen/Wood

Rookies only:

PG: Cade
SG: Brown
SF: Scottie Barnes/Franz Wagner (I believe he's on his way to become a rich man's Hayward)
PF: Tatum
C: Mobley

Most of these guys are pipe dreams. Jarrett Allen might become available down the road cause he plays the same position as Mobley.

Here's a realistic team:

PG: Smart/Derrick White
SG: Brown
SF: Tatum
PF: Kyle Anderson
C: Christian Wood

I'm very high on Christian Wood. He's long and athletic. He can stretch the floor. He can set picks on the perimeter and either roll hard to the basket or pop for 3. He's a terrific rebounder. He can protect the rim. He can switch ball screens on the perimeter. He can even put the ball on the floor and create his own shot! His only weakness is his court vision, but we'd be using him off the ball. I reckon he's good enough to be the 3rd option on a championship team.

[PhoSita]

I think the restrictions you've set up here have basically whittled away any of the avenues to making a roster built around Jayson & Jaylen into a contender.

[Moranis]

What is the point of this exercise? If it isn't based at all in reality why do it?

[Who]

I think the restrictions you've set up here have basically whittled away any of the avenues to making a roster built around Jayson & Jaylen into a contender.

That was my reaction as well. The Jays need a legit 3rd star if not a 3rd & 4th star.

[jambr380]

Based on the above restrictions, I'd probably have to go with Horford, Time Lord, Smart, Schroder, and Josh Richardson.

[slamtheking]

Based on the above restrictions, I'd probably have to go with Horford, Time Lord, Smart, Schroder, and Josh Richardson.

was thinking the same thing

[Rosco917]

A 3rd and 4th star to go with the J's? How many basketballs are we playing with again? Let's just rid ourselves of both of the J's and get a 5th star to go with the 3rd and 4th.   

[LilRip]

What is the point of this exercise? If it isn't based at all in reality why do it?

That’s why the post LITERALLY starts with “just for fun”

What’s the point of trade proposals on this forum if you aren’t part of Celtics management?

[CFAN38]

PG Rubio, Mills
SG Brown, J Richardson
SF Tatum
PF H Barnes
C Valanciunas, Horford

[GreenlyGreeny]

The harder exercise: Build a contender around JT/JB with the “assets” currently available. Good luck figuring out how to do that…

[LilRip]

The harder exercise: Build a contender around JT/JB with the “assets” currently available. Good luck figuring out how to do that…

You say that but the interesting thought behind this too is that by giving names that might seem unrealistic to you, you also create a template as to what kind of players you think would fit around the Jays.

For example, someone mentioned Jarrett Allen. Now, how diff is Allen from Timelord? The diff isn’t huge, granted Allen is probably a better player now but they are of similar build. So then does this mean if TL develops to be as good a player as Allen is, our starting C is already a lock?

another example: people have also mentioned Rubio and Haliburton. We don’t have a guy like that at all on the roster or even anyone who projects to be a high level playmaking PG. Instead we have Smart rn but it’s interesting that people are valuing a playmaking skill over switchable defense at the 1 (which Smart is probably one of the best in the league at). Is it time to move on from Smart, despite how well he’s been playing for us?

I think it’s unrealistic for the C’s to field a team of allstars and all-NBA players. Luka-Brown-Tatum-Giannis-Embiid would probably make for a good starting 5 but it’s unfortunately never gonna be in the cards. Getting non-allstars though by trading around our role players plus a pick here and there seems more feasible.

Its like the bucks getting Jrue Holiday and Bobby Portis and the like. Those are really solid role players who perform well around Middleton and Giannis.

[Jvalin]

For example, someone mentioned Jarrett Allen. Now, how diff is Allen from Timelord? The diff isn’t huge, granted Allen is probably a better player now but they are of similar build. So then does this mean if TL develops to be as good a player as Allen is, our starting C is already a lock?

The difference is huge! Forget what I'm saying. Check out these advanced stats:

Estimated plus/minus
Allen: +5.5 which ranks in the 98th percentile
Timelord: +2.3 which ranks in the 88th percentile

Estimated wins
Allen: 5.3 which ranks in the 97th percentile
Timelord: 2.5 which ranks in the 82th percentile

LEBRON index
Allen: +3.29 (11th best in the NBA)
Timelord: -0.44 (237th best)

WAR RAPTOR
Allen: +3.7 (11th best in the NBA)
Timelord: +1.7 (86th best)

WS/48
Allen: .262 (5th best in the NBA behind only Jokic, Gobert, Butler and Giannis)
Timelord: .213 (11th best but considerably behind Allen)

No stat should be taken at face value, but I believe they are usually useful. Feel free to disregard them if you don't like analytics. If you ask me, Allen will probably be an All-Star this season. At the very least, he deserves to be an All-Star.

people have also mentioned (...) Haliburton. We don’t have a guy like that at all on the roster or even anyone who projects to be a high level playmaking PG. Instead we have Smart rn but it’s interesting that people are valuing a playmaking skill over switchable defense at the 1

Haliburton provides both playmaking and switchability. Btw, Smart is an underrated passer. It's just that Haliburton is better.

[LilRip]

For example, someone mentioned Jarrett Allen. Now, how diff is Allen from Timelord? The diff isn’t huge, granted Allen is probably a better player now but they are of similar build. So then does this mean if TL develops to be as good a player as Allen is, our starting C is already a lock?

The difference is huge! Forget what I'm saying. Check out these advanced stats:

Estimated plus/minus
Allen: +5.5 which ranks in the 98th percentile
Timelord: +2.3 which ranks in the 88th percentile

Estimated wins
Allen: 5.3 which ranks in the 97th percentile
Timelord: 2.5 which ranks in the 82th percentile

LEBRON index
Allen: +3.29 (11th best in the NBA)
Timelord: -0.44 (237th best)

WAR RAPTOR
Allen: +3.7 (11th best in the NBA)
Timelord: +1.7 (86th best)

WS/48
Allen: .262 (5th best in the NBA behind only Jokic, Gobert, Butler and Giannis)
Timelord: .213 (11th best but considerably behind Allen)

No stat should be taken at face value, but I believe they are usually useful. Feel free to disregard them if you don't like analytics. If you ask me, Allen will probably be an All-Star this season. At the very least, he deserves to be an All-Star.

people have also mentioned (...) Haliburton. We don’t have a guy like that at all on the roster or even anyone who projects to be a high level playmaking PG. Instead we have Smart rn but it’s interesting that people are valuing a playmaking skill over switchable defense at the 1

Haliburton provides both playmaking and switchability. Btw, Smart is an underrated passer. It's just that Haliburton is better.

Yes Allen is better but TL is of a similar build type (rim runner, shot blocker, elite rebounder). It’s not like we’re comparing Giannis and TL here who has an entirely different skill set. If TL becomes a better player (which I think is certainly possible) and approaches Allen-level, then we pretty much need the guy at the 5 we need, wouldn’t you say?

And I’m not saying Smart is a scrub. Smart is more than decent. But if he’s your best PG, how much do you value playmaking vs defense? And I’m not saying Haliburton can’t defend but (or maybe I haven’t watched the Kings closely) I don’t think he’ll be a perennial contender for all-defense teams.

As an aside, a guy who would be absolutely lethal at the 1 for us (imo) would be Dejounte Murray even if he’s not a guy who’s as good of a shooter as like a Haliburton.

[PhoSita]

Its like the bucks getting Jrue Holiday and Bobby Portis and the like. Those are really solid role players who perform well around Middleton and Giannis.

The Celtics, though, basically have two Middletons. No Giannis.

Big difference.