Ime has got to go!

[trickybilly]

Calling Ime "Uchoka", certainly didn't stick or age well.

I don't get the Vibe Man moniker either.  Did I miss something there?

I think it's some weird reddit thing stemming from Ime being more similar to our players than others. That he was hired on 'vibes' rather than substance.

Ah, gotcha.  I remember some posters with the rather insulting “check the box” hire stuff too.

Anyone coming from Pop is a good hire. I think I expected too much to start the year and was very disapointed. I thought we'd be good out of the gate.

Except Brett Brown maybe. But Philly screwed up his development too, lol.

Yeah, Philly is a strange situation...

You love to see it.

Hope they fire Doc, and he gets a new gig somewhere nice. Maybe Minny.

[nickagneta]

Calling Ime "Uchoka", certainly didn't stick or age well.

I don't get the Vibe Man moniker either.  Did I miss something there?

I really hope it's not because of the whole black coach thing.

Unfortunately, there were more than a couple people that brought up skin color with Udoka when he was hired. And not in a good way. I know of two that don't frequent CS anymore.

[liam]

Calling Ime "Uchoka", certainly didn't stick or age well.

I don't get the Vibe Man moniker either.  Did I miss something there?

I really hope it's not because of the whole black coach thing.

Unfortunately, there were more than a couple people that brought up skin color with Udoka when he was hired. And not in a good way. I know of two that don't frequent CS anymore.

Yeah, that's pretty repugnant. Ime was more than qualified.

[Roy H.]

Calling Ime "Uchoka", certainly didn't stick or age well.

I don't get the Vibe Man moniker either.  Did I miss something there?

I really hope it's not because of the whole black coach thing.

Unfortunately, there were more than a couple people that brought up skin color with Udoka when he was hired. And not in a good way. I know of two that don't frequent CS anymore.

Yeah, that's pretty repugnant. Ime was more than qualified.

I don't recall the particulars.  I do remember that there was plenty of debate around the issue of whether Ime's race should be a factor.  This was with the backdrop of JB's earlier comments supporting black coaches.  So, I think at the time the general consensus was the the Celtics were looking for a black coach, and they also wanted a former player.

I think the question of "should we pick the best black coach" vs. "should we pick the best coach" is a complex one.  Fortunately, it was irrelevant, because as you mention, Ime was qualified.  Almost all of the best coaching candidates were black former players, the two best (in my opinion, now and at the time) being Ime and Ham.  I wasn't a fan of Chauncey Billups or Jason Kidd, but they also were legit candidates around the league.  The one white candidate who was clearly well qualified was Rick Carlisle.  He wouldn't have been a great personality fit for our team, necessarily. 

The one coaching candidate I personally objected to was Kara Lawson.  She just didn't have the qualifications.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

Ime was the wrong choice from the beginning, this team needed an experienced coach/leader with a bark and a bite.

Tp….but


C’mon man…. Uchoka checked all the boxes ……And had the imprimatur of our 3  20-something star players.

How can this be the wrong choice?

I'd love to hear this guy unpack this comment.

Also: where have all of the Ime haters gone? It seems like there was a mass exodus once the Celtics started to win.

[bdm860]

Here's some interesting historical facts:

Only 6 black head coaches have ever won an NBA title, and they've won 8 total championships. 

Udoka could be the 7th coach winning the 9th championship. 

If he does win, that would be 4 of 7 black coaches who have won a championship doing it with the Celtics. And 6 of 9 championships won by a black coach being won by the Celtics.

Also only 1 black coach has won with an all black starting 5.  Doc Rivers and the Celtics.  If he wins, Udoka will be the 2nd.*

*Though technically, the 2016 Cavs had a black coach and all black starting five for 2 of 7 games in '16.


Bill Russell: '68, '69
Al Attles: '75
Lenny Wilkens: '79
KC Jones: '84, '86
Doc Rivers: '08
Tyronn Lue: '16


If they win, maybe Jay Williams will tweet something out congratulating Udoka for being the 1st black coach to win a title! 

[Roy H.]

For those wondering what they said about hiring Ime and the coaching search in general:

https://forum.celticsstrong.com/index.php?topic=104661.0

https://forum.celticsstrong.com/index.php?topic=104836.0

Funny enough, the first person to advocate for Udoka as head coach was Triboy, as far as I can tell.  Then, around page 21 Udoka is named as a candidate and there's more back and forth.

[nickagneta]

Calling Ime "Uchoka", certainly didn't stick or age well.

I don't get the Vibe Man moniker either.  Did I miss something there?

I really hope it's not because of the whole black coach thing.

Unfortunately, there were more than a couple people that brought up skin color with Udoka when he was hired. And not in a good way. I know of two that don't frequent CS anymore.

Yeah, that's pretty repugnant. Ime was more than qualified.

I don't recall the particulars.  I do remember that there was plenty of debate around the issue of whether Ime's race should be a factor.  This was with the backdrop of JB's earlier comments supporting black coaches.  So, I think at the time the general consensus was the the Celtics were looking for a black coach, and they also wanted a former player.

I think the question of "should we pick the best black coach" vs. "should we pick the best coach" is a complex one.  Fortunately, it was irrelevant, because as you mention, Ime was qualified.  Almost all of the best coaching candidates were black former players, the two best (in my opinion, now and at the time) being Ime and Ham.  I wasn't a fan of Chauncey Billups or Jason Kidd, but they also were legit candidates around the league.  The one white candidate who was clearly well qualified was Rick Carlisle.  He wouldn't have been a great personality fit for our team, necessarily. 

The one coaching candidate I personally objected to was Kara Lawson.  She just didn't have the qualifications.

I think you might be glossing over comments from some who argued the "only" reason Ime got hired was his skin color. Comments like this hire was a racist hire, maybe reverse racist, but you know what I mean, were said over and over again. That's a bit worse than you make it out because the argument by some was "is it better to hire a black coach" or "is it better to hire the best coach", the implication being a black coach couldn"t be the best coach.

It's history. Ime has been outstanding and got screwed a bit on the COTY voting. The CS couldn't have hired a better coach, irregardless of skin color

[Roy H.]

Calling Ime "Uchoka", certainly didn't stick or age well.

I don't get the Vibe Man moniker either.  Did I miss something there?

I really hope it's not because of the whole black coach thing.

Unfortunately, there were more than a couple people that brought up skin color with Udoka when he was hired. And not in a good way. I know of two that don't frequent CS anymore.

Yeah, that's pretty repugnant. Ime was more than qualified.

I don't recall the particulars.  I do remember that there was plenty of debate around the issue of whether Ime's race should be a factor.  This was with the backdrop of JB's earlier comments supporting black coaches.  So, I think at the time the general consensus was the the Celtics were looking for a black coach, and they also wanted a former player.

I think the question of "should we pick the best black coach" vs. "should we pick the best coach" is a complex one.  Fortunately, it was irrelevant, because as you mention, Ime was qualified.  Almost all of the best coaching candidates were black former players, the two best (in my opinion, now and at the time) being Ime and Ham.  I wasn't a fan of Chauncey Billups or Jason Kidd, but they also were legit candidates around the league.  The one white candidate who was clearly well qualified was Rick Carlisle.  He wouldn't have been a great personality fit for our team, necessarily. 

The one coaching candidate I personally objected to was Kara Lawson.  She just didn't have the qualifications.

I think you might be glossing over comments from some who argued the "only" reason Ime got hired was his skin color. Comments like this hire was a racist hire, maybe reverse racist, but you know what I mean, were said over and over again. That's a bit worse than you make it out because the argument by some was "is it better to hire a black coach" or "is it better to hire the best coach", the implication being a black coach couldn"t be the best coach.

It's history. Ime has been outstanding and got screwed a bit on the COTY voting. The CS couldn't have hired a better coach, irregardless of skin color

It's not glossing over it, so much as me not remembering the particular arguments as applied to Ime.  I remember the backlash to JB's comments celebrating black coaches' success.

I'm not doubting that they occurred, though.  The concept of an "affirmative action hire" is definitely still out there.  And hell, if we'd hired Kara Lawson, I would have made that argument myself.  But, I trust you that people made it about Ime, which (to me) is fairly silly because there weren't a lot of well-qualified white coaches that Ime "took the spot of" (in common parlance").  Who were the good white coaches that weren't considered?  Carlisle and...  Mike D'Antoni?

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

Imagine if we hired Dantoni?!?!?! I can't think of a coach that is more of a polar opposite than Ime. All offense, no defense. I can't stand that brand of basketball.

I love our coach, and hope he stays for a long time. There will always be haters, and when proven wrong, they typically slither away. Not a shock.

Go Ime, Go Defense, Go Celtics!

[jpotter33]

I had two main criteria that I wanted in our coach. I wanted a former player and someone who has been in the league for a long time and knows the craft, and I also preferred having an African-American coach for the team. However, it was not for diversity or inclusivity's sake. I think there's a lot of problems both practically and ethically with limiting one's scope of a hiring search for the sole sake of diversity and inclusivity.

Rather, I had more utilitarian aims. I thought an African-American coach - especially a former player - was much more likely to reach our young guys and instill the kind of discipline and character that they needed but didn't get from Brad. So far, this is exactly what Ime has done. I've loved the choice from day one, and I think he was the perfect candidate at the perfect time for this group.

[MarcusSmartFanClub]

I had two main criteria that I wanted in our coach. I wanted a former player and someone who has been in the league for a long time and knows the craft, and I also preferred having an African-American coach for the team. However, it was not for diversity or inclusivity's sake. I think there's a lot of problems both practically and ethically with limiting one's scope of a hiring search for the sole sake of diversity and inclusivity.

Rather, I had more utilitarian aims. I thought an African-American coach - especially a former player - was much more likely to reach our young guys and instill the kind of discipline and character that they needed but didn't get from Brad. So far, this is exactly what Ime has done. I've loved the choice from day one, and I think he was the perfect candidate at the perfect time for this group.

In Jackie Mac's piece, she quoted Ime asking Marcus "what the eff are you doing?!" Regardless of race, I don't think Brad was comfortable having these tough conversations with tough players. I don't think Ime is worried about upsetting Marcus or Jaylen, and if he does, he has the composure/social skills to come back and make things right.

I really liked Brad, but I don't see him as an accountability guy. It helps to know that the guy that is calling you out has been responsible himself for playing defense in the league. Brad couldn't manufacture this respect. I think he would be the first to admit that.

How would you rank the top 5 from the following group? Pop, Kerr, Spo, Nurse, Monty, Bud, Carlisle, Rivers, Thibs, Donovan, and Taylor Jenkins.

My thought:
1) Pop
2) Kerr
3) Spo
4) Nurse
5) Bud

I think Ime can jump ahead of Bud and Nurse with a chip.

[GetLucky]

I had two main criteria that I wanted in our coach. I wanted a former player and someone who has been in the league for a long time and knows the craft, and I also preferred having an African-American coach for the team. However, it was not for diversity or inclusivity's sake. I think there's a lot of problems both practically and ethically with limiting one's scope of a hiring search for the sole sake of diversity and inclusivity.

Rather, I had more utilitarian aims. I thought an African-American coach - especially a former player - was much more likely to reach our young guys and instill the kind of discipline and character that they needed but didn't get from Brad. So far, this is exactly what Ime has done. I've loved the choice from day one, and I think he was the perfect candidate at the perfect time for this group.

In Jackie Mac's piece, she quoted Ime asking Marcus "what the eff are you doing?!" Regardless of race, I don't think Brad was comfortable having these tough conversations with tough players. I don't think Ime is worried about upsetting Marcus or Jaylen, and if he does, he has the composure/social skills to come back and make things right.

I really liked Brad, but I don't see him as an accountability guy. It helps to know that the guy that is calling you out has been responsible himself for playing defense in the league. Brad couldn't manufacture this respect. I think he would be the first to admit that.

How would you rank the top 5 from the following group? Pop, Kerr, Spo, Nurse, Monty, Bud, Carlisle, Rivers, Thibs, Donovan, and Taylor Jenkins.

My thought:
1) Pop
2) Kerr
3) Spo
4) Nurse
5) Bud

I think Ime can jump ahead of Bud and Nurse with a chip.

In an interview yesterday, Rob said that, in the Milwaukee series, Ime told him, “Stop letting mfers run over you.” I laughed out loud thinking of Brad saying that during a game. I guess we know why Ime puts the mask on now!

[footey]

I was team Billups back then, but got on board the Udoka hype train following his press conference when he jabbed at Brad for the poor assist numbers.  Supported him ever since, even during the dark days of this season.

[jpotter33]

I had two main criteria that I wanted in our coach. I wanted a former player and someone who has been in the league for a long time and knows the craft, and I also preferred having an African-American coach for the team. However, it was not for diversity or inclusivity's sake. I think there's a lot of problems both practically and ethically with limiting one's scope of a hiring search for the sole sake of diversity and inclusivity.

Rather, I had more utilitarian aims. I thought an African-American coach - especially a former player - was much more likely to reach our young guys and instill the kind of discipline and character that they needed but didn't get from Brad. So far, this is exactly what Ime has done. I've loved the choice from day one, and I think he was the perfect candidate at the perfect time for this group.

In Jackie Mac's piece, she quoted Ime asking Marcus "what the eff are you doing?!" Regardless of race, I don't think Brad was comfortable having these tough conversations with tough players. I don't think Ime is worried about upsetting Marcus or Jaylen, and if he does, he has the composure/social skills to come back and make things right.

I really liked Brad, but I don't see him as an accountability guy. It helps to know that the guy that is calling you out has been responsible himself for playing defense in the league. Brad couldn't manufacture this respect. I think he would be the first to admit that.

How would you rank the top 5 from the following group? Pop, Kerr, Spo, Nurse, Monty, Bud, Carlisle, Rivers, Thibs, Donovan, and Taylor Jenkins.

My thought:
1) Pop
2) Kerr
3) Spo
4) Nurse
5) Bud

I think Ime can jump ahead of Bud and Nurse with a chip.

Yeah, as good as Brad was, I think he was always limited by not having league experience himself, as well as his overall character and personality. I actually loved the move for him to GM, as I think that's where his ridiculous BBIQ and basketball intellect in constructing a team can be really helpful.