Trade ideas with tanking teams to get better this year and long term.

[todd_days_41]

I think Al gives you more than Val.

Thems some Beer Goggles you're looking at Horford with!

Lemme read you a quote from yesterday's Boston Globe:

In 97 minutes together, Tatum, Smart, Horford, Robert Williams and Schroder have been outscored by 19.6 points per 100 possessions. This group's most obvious and glaring weakness is its lack of offense -- specifically, outside shooting.

The unit has a cringe-worthy 91.3 offensive rating. To put that figure in perspective, that's nearly 10 points worse than the Thunder's offense, which ranks last in the NBA. While sharing the floor, this Celtics group has connect on just 25.3 percent of its 3 pointers.

Interestingly, when Josh Richardson simply replaces Horford, this same grouping has been dominant, outscoring opponents by 45.5 points per 100 possessions in the seven games they've played together.

Himmelsbach acknowledges that the sample size is small, I should point out. But the above raises a couple of already obvious points.

1) Horford is not the player he was when he played in Boston first time around. He cannot be sharing the floor with another big. He's a back-up Center in the NBA -- simple as that.
2) Horford's shooting is way down. At this point in his career he has to rely on stretching the floor -- and its a weakness, not a strength.

I like and admire Al, but Boston didn't overpay him in the summer of 2019 for a reason. Dude is on the 17th hole of his career. Valanciunas is clearly upgrade at this point.

[Moranis]

And I get that New Orleans paid a steep price for JV and Graham, so it will take a steep price to get them, but no way I'd give up 2 1st's, plus Horford and Schroder for JV and Graham.  Just not worth it.

now if they'd do something like Smart for JV straight up, I'd do that.  If they wanted to include Lewis for someone like Langford or Nesmith, I'd probably do that to get the trade done.

My thinking was Schröder and Al are gone after this year anyway, so try to find longer term pieces for their slots. It's not like Al and Schröder's contracts not being on the books next year helps the Celtics in free agency, so move them this year for upgrades in those positions.

Al's contract is immensely valuable as a trade piece in the off season though.  And who knows what Schroder's market will be.  He is better than Graham though, so I see no reason to downgrade now for a slight long term upgrade.  If Graham was a full time starting PG going forward, then sure, but he is not.  No way I'd give up two 1st's for those 2 guys and frankly might not even give up 1.

As I said I'd do Smart for JV straight up.  I think NO could use someone like Smart as they seem to lack some intensity and certainly need his defensive capabilities.  He is signed long term and is still young enough to be considered a long term piece.  If NO needed more value, I'd take a flyer on Lewis and give them Langford or Nesmith. 

The team still then has Horford or Rob to use in a trade and its 1st round picks.  So maybe you can get McCollum. 

So two trades

Trade 1: Jonas, Lewis for Smart, Langford

Trade 2: McCollum, Nance, Smith for Horford, G. Williams, Pritchard, Hernangomez, 22 1st, 24 1st (top 4), 26 1st (lotto)


So Post Trades (1 open roster spots)

PG - Schroder, Smith, Lewis
SG - McCollum, Richardson
SF - Brown, Nesmith
PF - Tatum, Nance, Parker, Fernando
C - Valanciunas, R. Williams, Freedom

Now that would be a fun team, with a real shot at contention in a season or two once they jell and the J's mature a bit more.  McCollum would basically serve as the back-up PG, Tatum would play more at SF (with Nance at PF), and you just get a nice mix of scoring and defense.  You get a real 3rd scorer in McCollum and JV as a 4th or 5th scoring option would be fantastic, plus Rob is on the bench saving some strain on his fragile body.  Still have Richardson's solid play off the bench, plus you get a look at Smith and Lewis to see if there is anything there as a long term player for the team (even if just as a back-up). 

I'm not sure the Pelicans or Blazers do those trades, but if they would I think Boston would be a lot better and McCollum is a much better use of draft picks than JV/Graham. 

[slamtheking]

And I get that New Orleans paid a steep price for JV and Graham, so it will take a steep price to get them, but no way I'd give up 2 1st's, plus Horford and Schroder for JV and Graham.  Just not worth it.

now if they'd do something like Smart for JV straight up, I'd do that.  If they wanted to include Lewis for someone like Langford or Nesmith, I'd probably do that to get the trade done.

My thinking was Schröder and Al are gone after this year anyway, so try to find longer term pieces for their slots. It's not like Al and Schröder's contracts not being on the books next year helps the Celtics in free agency, so move them this year for upgrades in those positions.

Al's contract is immensely valuable as a trade piece in the off season though.  And who knows what Schroder's market will be.  He is better than Graham though, so I see no reason to downgrade now for a slight long term upgrade.  If Graham was a full time starting PG going forward, then sure, but he is not.  No way I'd give up two 1st's for those 2 guys and frankly might not even give up 1.

As I said I'd do Smart for JV straight up.  I think NO could use someone like Smart as they seem to lack some intensity and certainly need his defensive capabilities.  He is signed long term and is still young enough to be considered a long term piece.  If NO needed more value, I'd take a flyer on Lewis and give them Langford or Nesmith. 

The team still then has Horford or Rob to use in a trade and its 1st round picks.  So maybe you can get McCollum. 

So two trades

Trade 1: Jonas, Lewis for Smart, Langford

Trade 2: McCollum, Nance, Smith for Horford, G. Williams, Pritchard, Hernangomez, 22 1st, 24 1st (top 4), 26 1st (lotto)


So Post Trades (1 open roster spots)

PG - Schroder, Smith, Lewis
SG - McCollum, Richardson
SF - Brown, Nesmith
PF - Tatum, Nance, Parker, Fernando
C - Valanciunas, R. Williams, Freedom

Now that would be a fun team, with a real shot at contention in a season or two once they jell and the J's mature a bit more.  McCollum would basically serve as the back-up PG, Tatum would play more at SF (with Nance at PF), and you just get a nice mix of scoring and defense.  You get a real 3rd scorer in McCollum and JV as a 4th or 5th scoring option would be fantastic, plus Rob is on the bench saving some strain on his fragile body.  Still have Richardson's solid play off the bench, plus you get a look at Smith and Lewis to see if there is anything there as a long term player for the team (even if just as a back-up). 

I'm not sure the Pelicans or Blazers do those trades, but if they would I think Boston would be a lot better and McCollum is a much better use of draft picks than JV/Graham.

this is one of the rare trade proposals you've made that I didn't think the C's grossly overpay and I could get behind. 

[todd_days_41]

One issue: I don't think Valanciunas can be traded this year because he signed an extension after September 28th. Can anyone verify that?

[nickagneta]

One issue: I don't think Valanciunas can be traded this year because he signed an extension after September 28th. Can anyone verify that?

Dang....good pick up todd, you are correct. TP4U

I guess a big nevermind is in order for this thread.

[Wretch]

I think Al gives you more than Val.

Thems some Beer Goggles you're looking at Horford with!

Lemme read you a quote from yesterday's Boston Globe:

In 97 minutes together, Tatum, Smart, Horford, Robert Williams and Schroder have been outscored by 19.6 points per 100 possessions. This group's most obvious and glaring weakness is its lack of offense -- specifically, outside shooting.

The unit has a cringe-worthy 91.3 offensive rating. To put that figure in perspective, that's nearly 10 points worse than the Thunder's offense, which ranks last in the NBA. While sharing the floor, this Celtics group has connect on just 25.3 percent of its 3 pointers.

Interestingly, when Josh Richardson simply replaces Horford, this same grouping has been dominant, outscoring opponents by 45.5 points per 100 possessions in the seven games they've played together.

Himmelsbach acknowledges that the sample size is small, I should point out. But the above raises a couple of already obvious points.

1) Horford is not the player he was when he played in Boston first time around. He cannot be sharing the floor with another big. He's a back-up Center in the NBA -- simple as that.
2) Horford's shooting is way down. At this point in his career he has to rely on stretching the floor -- and its a weakness, not a strength.

I like and admire Al, but Boston didn't overpay him in the summer of 2019 for a reason. Dude is on the 17th hole of his career. Valanciunas is clearly upgrade at this point.

The the net rating issue is a Schroder issue not Al. Replace Schroder with Jaylen and you get this:
A. Horford, .M. Smart, .J. Brown, .J. Tatum, .R. Williams III   BOS   7   75   108.6   87.1   21.5

Schroder is a net negative player as a starter.  He's best suited as a 6th man.     

[nickagneta]

Since Valanciunas can't be traded, I think I am going to switch around the thread title and theme to trades that can be made with tanking teams to get better.

I still think trading Horford and Schröder, guys that won't be here next year but could reduce salary for tanking teams is a great idea.

[Csfan1984]

I think Al gives you more than Val.

Thems some Beer Goggles you're looking at Horford with!

Lemme read you a quote from yesterday's Boston Globe:

In 97 minutes together, Tatum, Smart, Horford, Robert Williams and Schroder have been outscored by 19.6 points per 100 possessions. This group's most obvious and glaring weakness is its lack of offense -- specifically, outside shooting.

The unit has a cringe-worthy 91.3 offensive rating. To put that figure in perspective, that's nearly 10 points worse than the Thunder's offense, which ranks last in the NBA. While sharing the floor, this Celtics group has connect on just 25.3 percent of its 3 pointers.

Interestingly, when Josh Richardson simply replaces Horford, this same grouping has been dominant, outscoring opponents by 45.5 points per 100 possessions in the seven games they've played together.

Himmelsbach acknowledges that the sample size is small, I should point out. But the above raises a couple of already obvious points.

1) Horford is not the player he was when he played in Boston first time around. He cannot be sharing the floor with another big. He's a back-up Center in the NBA -- simple as that.
2) Horford's shooting is way down. At this point in his career he has to rely on stretching the floor -- and its a weakness, not a strength.

I like and admire Al, but Boston didn't overpay him in the summer of 2019 for a reason. Dude is on the 17th hole of his career. Valanciunas is clearly upgrade at this point.

You misread the room. I dislike Al, other than his partially guarantee contract feel he was not worth trading for. I just don't think Val is any good either especially defense wise in a switch system.

[nickagneta]

I have to go back to a Houston trade idea I had. Houston should be tanking. They have a few older guys that don't make sense being on that roster.

Wall, Gordon, Theis and to a lesser degree Wood aren't on the Houston timeline. For a tanking team, their payroll is kinda high.

So does this make sense:

The large TPE and a 2nd rounder

For

Wood

while simultaneously trading

Horford, Richardson and Hernangomez plus cash

For

Wall

I know, I know Wall's contract is awful and it puts the team in a rough place financially and he might be another "looking for his points" type guy, but he would be by far the best PG on this team and a real third scoring threat. Trading for Wall and relieving the Rox of that contract also means you don't have to add 1st round picks to get Wood. It also makes Schröder more easy to move on from because you know we can't re-sign him for next year and kinda have to move him. But now you have a good replacement for him.

Or should Brad be looking to get Gordon and/or Theis and/Wood rather than Wall.

[Jvalin]

I believe all these guys are realistic targets and we have the assets to get the job done. Worst case scenario, we'd have to add more pick(s). Feel free to do so if you think we don't surrender enough assets.

(click on images to enlarge)

[Csfan1984]

I'd like most trades sending Smart out.

[Jvalin]

I'd like most trades sending Smart out.

The thread is titled ''trade ideas with tanking teams to get better this year and long term''. Why would a tanking team want Smart?

[todd_days_41]

One issue: I don't think Valanciunas can be traded this year because he signed an extension after September 28th. Can anyone verify that?

Dang....good pick up todd, you are correct. TP4U

I guess a big nevermind is in order for this thread.

I use Fanspo as a Trade Machine -- it's pretty good about this level of detail pick-up.

FWIW, my idea was to loop in a 3rd team prepared to a pick to NOP to pay for Schroder. The Knicks strike me as an obvious one (no PG, multiple 1sts this year). I could also see GSW doing it for the last pick in the 2022 1st.

If you find another player who requires picks to acquire, could be a model to use.

[todd_days_41]

I'd like most trades sending Smart out.

The thread is titled ''trade ideas with tanking teams to get better this year and long term''. Why would a tanking team want Smart?

To help them tank, of course....

[nickagneta]

I believe all these guys are realistic targets and we have the assets to get the job done. Worst case scenario, we'd have to add more pick(s). Feel free to do so if you think we don't surrender enough assets.

(click on images to enlarge)

Don't like the Satoransky trade. Richardson is simply a better player.

I don't don't like the Wood trade because I would want both Timelord and Wood as bigs on this team long term.

The other two are good trades though I think Detroit and Toronto could probably do better elsewhere than what we could offer.