Trade ideas with tanking teams to get better this year and long term.

[nickagneta]

I posted this trade not knowing Valanciunas can't be traded until next November so want to transition it to trade ideas with tanking teams that could make the C's better this year and long term because Al and Schröder won't be on the team next year.

So what could those guys get Boston if trading with teams like HOU, NOP, ORL, DET, IND, SAS, POR, SAC, etc? Teams that will most likely be trying to lose because they will be in blow it up and or tank for draft position.

I was advocating to trade Smart for Jonas Valanciunas this past off-season. It wasn't met with much enthusiasm, but he is right now putting up 18 PPG, 12 RPG, 2.5 APG while shooting 51.5FG%, 45.7% 3PT%, 81.8% FT%, 59.5% TS% while not missing a game.

HERE WAS MY TRADE IDEA THAT CAN'T BE DONE THAT STARTED THE THREAD:

Valanciunas' 3 point shooting is some of the best in the league although he is only taking 2.4 attempts a game. But if he did that here, he would be dragging bigs out of the paint opening up lanes for drivers like JT, JB, Richardson and Schröder.

Heck, he is playing for New Orleans. Throw some first rounders at them and they might still trade him when they are eligible. Something like

Horford, Schröder, rights to Yam Mader, 2021 and 2023 1st round picks

for

Valanciunas, Graham and Kira Lewis.

When the trade can be made, if not right away. This cuts $20+ million off the salary cap for Pelicans next year, when they cut Horford in the off-season. The Pellies could even buy out Horford right away trying to get Al to give up the guaranteed money for next year, in order for Al to become a free agent right away, so he can get signed by a contender, getting Al his first ring(Milwaukee could use Al). This could free up another $14.5 million for next year for the Pelicans.

The trade also gives NOP two 1st rounders and the rights to a promising young PG that is overseas. And, it takes Lewis off their hands, a guy who might not be all that great after suffering a torn ACL this year. In a tanking year for NO, if Zion is out most if not all of this year, this might be a great offer for them.

Boston, meanwhile, gets two long term pieces at center in Val and PG in Graham and both guys can shoot the three, as shown by this year's numbers for Val and the last two years numbers for Graham.

[Jvalin]

I'd pass on Valanciunas. Don't get me wrong, he's a nice player, but he's effective only in a drop scheme on defense. The C's are built around 2 versatile/switchable (s)wing defenders in Tatum and Brown. If we wanna maximize their effectiveness on both sides of the ball, we should be starting a mobile Center who can switch ball screens on the perimeter. Someone in the mold of Daniel Theis, only better.

[Birdman]

Like it but doubt Pelicans would do it

[Who]

For all Valanciunas' gaudy statistics, they do not seem to be leading to wins. New Orleans struggling badly. His Memphis team from last year not missing him with Steven Adams taking his place.

Not convinced Valanciunas is worth much. His slow feet, lack of defensive versatility and middling passing ability detract from his largess scoring & rebounding numbers.

Edit: I do not want to say empty statistics but flatter to deceive is a fair description. I do think they over-state Jonas' value - his net impact.

[Who]

Graham is interesting. He is fairly mediocre but he is mediocre in a way that can help offensively challenged teams like C's. His lack of size and defensive vulnerabilities will be annoying. They sap away a lot of his offensive quality.

His scoring efficiency isn't high enough to be that large of a boost to an offense and why he is only suited to boosting bad offenses rather than be an important cog in good offensive teams. His main quality is his quickness, ball-handling and passing. That is where he gives his teams a good boost and something the Celtics need.

Still, due his limitations (terrible D, dodgy scoring efficiency) Graham is not a clear long term fixture and therefore not worth giving up long term assets for. He is a band aid. Not a fix.

[Who]

C: Valanciunas, Rob Williams
F: Tatum, Grant Williams
F: Jaylen, Nesmith
G: Smart, Josh Richardson / Romeo
G: Devonte Graham, Pritchard

or

C: Valanciunas, Rob Williams
F: Grant Williams, Jabari Parker
F: Tatum, Nesmith
G: Jaylen, Josh Richardson / Romeo
G: Smart, Devonte Graham

The second group I do not like the lack of quickness and ball-handling on the perimeter. Or the lack of quickness and creation (shot creation or playmaking) from the two big slots. Looks predictable and easy to defend. A team that will underachieve offensively.

The first group looks dynamic offensively. Jonas causes matchup problems. He can post if teams switch or go small. Tatum and Jaylen get quickness advantages by the team playing smaller. Team gets a boost in ball-handling and playmaking in the backcourt with Graham at PG next two a SG (Smart) who can give more ball-handling. So big team boosts in ball-handling, perimeter shooting and quickness -- all necessary for areas for improvement for this current C's team.

I worry about Udoka picking the 2nd group though. Stodgy dull hard to watch basketball. This is the type of lineup that he has shown to prefer thus far this season.

Rob Williams feels wasted as a backup C. Good trade bait for a superior backup SF/PF. Maybe even target a solid starting SF/PF (Harrison Barnes type?) and could then move Smart into a 6th man role.

[Moranis]

Boston would obviously be better making the trade, but not so much better it is worth giving up 2 1st round picks for.

[nickagneta]

For all Valanciunas' gaudy statistics, they do not seem to be leading to wins. New Orleans struggling badly. His Memphis team from last year not missing him with Steven Adams taking his place.

Not convinced Valanciunas is worth much. His slow feet, lack of defensive versatility and middling passing ability detract from his largess scoring & rebounding numbers.

Not sure this is a fair take. Memphis's improvement has more to do with leaps forward by young players like Jah, Jaren Jackson Jr., Bane and Brooks, not switching Adams for Valanciunas.

Also, the Pelicans losing has everything to do with injuries to Zion, and to lesser extent, backup PG Lewis, allowing teams to double team Ingram. I don't see New Orleans struggles having anything to do with Valanciunas. If Adams was still there instead of Val, the Pellies would still suck this year.

[nickagneta]

Boston would obviously be better making the trade, but not so much better it is worth giving up 2 1st round picks for.

Then send the 2021 pick and heavily protect the next pick so it becomes two second rounders eventually.

[Moranis]

And I get that New Orleans paid a steep price for JV and Graham, so it will take a steep price to get them, but no way I'd give up 2 1st's, plus Horford and Schroder for JV and Graham.  Just not worth it.

now if they'd do something like Smart for JV straight up, I'd do that.  If they wanted to include Lewis for someone like Langford or Nesmith, I'd probably do that to get the trade done. 

[nickagneta]

C: Valanciunas, Rob Williams
F: Tatum, Grant Williams
F: Jaylen, Nesmith
G: Smart, Josh Richardson / Romeo
G: Devonte Graham, Pritchard

or

C: Valanciunas, Rob Williams
F: Grant Williams, Jabari Parker
F: Tatum, Nesmith
G: Jaylen, Josh Richardson / Romeo
G: Smart, Devonte Graham

The second group I do not like the lack of quickness and ball-handling on the perimeter. Or the lack of quickness and creation (shot creation or playmaking) from the two big slots. Looks predictable and easy to defend. A team that will underachieve offensively.

The first group looks dynamic offensively. Jonas causes matchup problems. He can post if teams switch or go small. Tatum and Jaylen get quickness advantages by the team playing smaller. Team gets a boost in ball-handling and playmaking in the backcourt with Graham at PG next two a SG (Smart) who can give more ball-handling. So big team boosts in ball-handling, perimeter shooting and quickness -- all necessary for areas for improvement for this current C's team.

I worry about Udoka picking the 2nd group though. Stodgy dull hard to watch basketball. This is the type of lineup that he has shown to prefer thus far this season.

Rob Williams feels wasted as a backup C. Good trade bait for a superior backup SF/PF. Maybe even target a solid starting SF/PF (Harrison Barnes type?) and could then move Smart into a 6th man role.

Your first grouping was more what I was thinking.

Regarding Timelord, I don't trust his injury history, and because of his poison pill protection in his contract due to the extension, trading him this year is going to be extremely difficult.

[nickagneta]

And I get that New Orleans paid a steep price for JV and Graham, so it will take a steep price to get them, but no way I'd give up 2 1st's, plus Horford and Schroder for JV and Graham.  Just not worth it.

now if they'd do something like Smart for JV straight up, I'd do that.  If they wanted to include Lewis for someone like Langford or Nesmith, I'd probably do that to get the trade done.

My thinking was Schröder and Al are gone after this year anyway, so try to find longer term pieces for their slots. It's not like Al and Schröder's contracts not being on the books next year helps the Celtics in free agency, so move them this year for upgrades in those positions.

[Csfan1984]

I think Al gives you more than Val. And this system needs a 6'3 or bigger PG. If the team wanted a 6'1 PG shooting the three they could have kept Walker and saved a first. Walker is over 40% attempting 5 a game.

The team wants defense before 3s.

[todd_days_41]

And I get that New Orleans paid a steep price for JV and Graham, so it will take a steep price to get them, but no way I'd give up 2 1st's, plus Horford and Schroder for JV and Graham.  Just not worth it.

now if they'd do something like Smart for JV straight up, I'd do that.  If they wanted to include Lewis for someone like Langford or Nesmith, I'd probably do that to get the trade done.

My thinking was Schröder and Al are gone after this year anyway, so try to find longer term pieces for their slots. It's not like Al and Schröder's contracts not being on the books next year helps the Celtics in free agency, so move them this year for upgrades in those positions.

I agree the deal as originally drafted is an overpay.

Schroder is of less value to a lottery team than a contender due to his contract / bird rights (lack thereof). Find a way to make this deal work without him, as he could -- and better be -- then traded elsewhere for an asset you could ostensibly be using to get your guy JV.

[nickagneta]

And I get that New Orleans paid a steep price for JV and Graham, so it will take a steep price to get them, but no way I'd give up 2 1st's, plus Horford and Schroder for JV and Graham.  Just not worth it.

now if they'd do something like Smart for JV straight up, I'd do that.  If they wanted to include Lewis for someone like Langford or Nesmith, I'd probably do that to get the trade done.

My thinking was Schröder and Al are gone after this year anyway, so try to find longer term pieces for their slots. It's not like Al and Schröder's contracts not being on the books next year helps the Celtics in free agency, so move them this year for upgrades in those positions.

I agree the deal as originally drafted is an overpay.

Schroder is of less value to a lottery team than a contender due to his contract / bird rights (lack thereof). Find a way to make this deal work without him, as he could -- and better be -- then traded elsewhere for an asset you could ostensibly be using to get your guy JV.

The trade I think still works by trading a young player or two instead of Schröder. Maybe keep Schröder and send Pritchard instead. Does something like this make more sense given the critiques of the trade:

Al Horford, Payton Pritchard, the rights to Yam Mader, 2021 1st round pick and a couple 2nd round picks

For

Jonas Valanciunas, Devonte Graham, Kira Lewis.